University of California Berkeley
Regional Oral History Office University of California
The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California
University History Series
Thomas H. Pigford
BUILDING THE FIELDS OF NUCLEAR ENERGY AND NUCLEAR WASTE MANAGEMENT, 1950-1999
With Introductions by
Richard D. Smyser
and
Elizabeth Pigford
Interviews Conducted by
Carl Wilmsen
in 1999
Copyright 2001 by The Regents of the University of California
Since 1954 the Regional Oral History Office has been interviewing leading
participants in or well-placed witnesses to major events in the development of
northern California, the West, and the nation. Oral history is a method of
collecting historical information through tape-recorded interviews between a
narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-
informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the
historical record. The tape recording is transcribed, lightly edited for
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placed in The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley, and in
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oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete
narrative of events. It is a spoken account, offered by the interviewee in
response to questioning, and as such it is reflective, partisan, deeply involved,
and irreplaceable.
************************************
All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal agreement
between The Regents of the University of California and Thomas H.
Pigford dated September 21, 1999. The manuscript is thereby made
available for research purposes. All literary rights in the
manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to The
Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. No part
of the manuscript may be quoted for publication without the written
permission of the Director of The Bancroft Library of the University
of California, Berkeley.
Requests for permission to quote for publication should be
addressed to the Regional Oral History Office, 486 Bancroft Library,
Mail Code 6000, University of California, Berkeley 94720-6000, and
should include identification of the specific passages to be quoted,
anticipated use of the passages, and identification of the user.
The legal agreement with Thomas H. Pigford requires that he be
notified of the request and allowed thirty days in which to respond.
It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows:
Thomas H. Pigford, "Building the Fields of
Nuclear Energy and Nuclear Waste
Management, 1950-1999," an oral history
conducted in 1999 by Carl Wilmsen,
Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft
Library, University of California,
Berkeley, 2001.
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Thomas H. Pigford, July 2001.
Photo by Richard Snyder
Cataloguing information
Thomas H. Pigford Professor of Nuclear Engineering
BUILDING THE FIELDS OF NUCLEAR ENERGY AND NUCLEAR WASTE MANAGEMENT, 1950-
1999, 2001, xviii, 340 pp.
Family and youth in Mississippi; background in chemical engineering,
graduate student at MIT, wartime service at Oak Ridge National Laboratory;
co-founding the Department of Nuclear Engineering Education at MIT with
Manson Benedict in 1952, developing the first nuclear engineering textbook,
nuclear reactor designs and government policy in the 1950s; starting the
Nuclear Engineering Department at the University of California, Berkeley,
in 1959, reflections on citizen and student activism in the 1960s,
environmental concerns of the 1960s and 1970s; service on the National
Atomic Energy Safety Licensing Boards, 1963-1974, reviewing the Diablo
Canyon, Fermi- 1, and General Electric reactors; investigating the accidents
at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, member of delegations to the Soviet
Union, 1988, and the Ukraine, 1994; changing research focus to nuclear
waste management in the 1970s, theoretical breakthroughs in the transport
of radioactive materials through geologic media, consultant to the WIPP and
Yucca Mountain projects, reviewing the Swedish program, 1986-1991, site
characteristics of Yucca Mountain, dissenting opinion on Yucca Mountain
Standards, 1995, working to deter proliferation of nuclear weapons in the
1990s; role of family in career.
Introductions by Richard D. Smyser, brother-in-law and newspaper
editor, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, and Elizabeth Pigford, wife.
Interviewed 1999 by Carl Wilmsen for the University History Series,
Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, University of
California, Berkeley.
ACKNOWLEDGMENT
This oral history has turned out to be a more interesting project than I
could have imagined. Several individuals deserve credit and have my
appreciation for their contributions to the project. Carl Wilmsen, the
interviewer from the Regional Oral History Office, thoughtfully and
carefully framed the discussion for the story told herein. Dick Smyser,
husband of my late sister Mary and astute commentator, wrote the first
introduction. Elizabeth Pigford wrote the second introduction and also
helped as an editorial assistant and critic; it is my pleasure to
dedicate this oral history to her. Shannon Page, production manager of
the Oral History Office and her colleagues, efficiently coordinated the
publication process. And it was Willa Baum, former director of the
Regional Oral History Office, whose idea launched this oral history
project. My heartfelt thanks to them all.
The expertise, fellowship and cooperation of the faculties and staffs of
the Nuclear Engineering Departments at Berkeley and, before that, at
M.I.T. have contributed to my academic and professional career in more
ways than I can enumerate here. The outstanding accomplishments of these
colleagues and their support and excellence in teaching and research
have laid the foundation for quality education in nuclear engineering.
Nuclear engineering draws on a multitude of disciplines. To have been
associated with many fine scientists, engineers, and others in so many
fields, in this country and abroad, has been an inspirational, life-long
learning experience.
I wish to extend my thanks to the Mitsubishi Corporation for their
long-standing support of my work and for making this oral history
possible .
It is indeed an honor to have been selected to be a subject of an oral
history. I am grateful to all who have made it possible.
August 27, 2001
TABLE OF CONTENTS- -Thomas Pigford
PREFACE i
INTRODUCTION by Richard D. Smyser ill
INTRODUCTION by Elizabeth Pigford xi
INTERVIEW HISTORY by Carl Wilmsen xiv
BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION xviii
I EARLY INFLUENCES, EDUCATION, AND CAREER CHOICES 1
Family Background, Early Influences, and Pre-graduate Education 1
A Temporary Deferment from the Military at MIT 15
A Choice of Wartime Service, and Influence of World War II on
Career 17
An Assignment at Oak Ridge National Laboratory Leads to a Career
in Nuclear Engineering 20
Solving Design Problems at Oak Ridge 22
Focusing on Civilian Applications but Working on a Nuclear
Reactor for Military Aircraft 27
II THE EARLY DAYS OF NUCLEAR POWER: THE DEPARTMENT AT MIT, WORK IN
INDUSTRY, AND GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS IN NUCLEAR POWER 32
Starting the Department of Nuclear Engineering Education at MIT 32
Developing Instructional Materials 33
Being Encouraged to Consult 34
Government Assistance in Building Nuclear Research
Reactors 36
The Savannah River Plant 38
Manson Benedict: Mentor 40
1950s Government Policy and Early Career 41
Costs of Constructing Nuclear Power Plants in the 1950s 42
General Atomic, 1957-1959: Strong Physics, Weak Engineering 46
Many Different Nuclear Reactor Designs Developed in the 1950s 49
Industry and Government Response to Developing a Helium-cooled
Graphite Reactor at General Atomic 56
Alternatives to Nuclear Power, and Environmental Concerns
in the 1960s and 1970s 61
III THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA: STARTING AND CHAIRING A NEW
NUCLEAR ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT, 1959-1964 68
An Invitation to Start the Nuclear Engineering Department at
the University of California at Berkeley, 1959 68
Establishing the New Department: Opportunities and
Challenges, and the Need for a Research Reactor 70
Funding, Designing, and Using the Research Reactor 74
Working with Chancellor Seaborg, and Relations with Other
Academic Departments 78
Major Research Programs in the Department at Cal, and the
Founding of the American Nuclear Society 80
Collaboration on Research, Edward Teller, Competing for
Grants, and the Cold War 86
The Nuclear Engineering Curriculum at Cal 91
Reflections on Citizen Activism at Bodega Bay, and Student
Activism in the 1960s 95
IV EARLY INVOLVEMENT IN NUCLEAR SAFETY, THE ECONOMICS OF NUCLEAR
POWER, AND A CHANGE IN RESEARCH FOCUS 100
Member of the National Atomic Energy Safety Licensing
Boards, 1963-1974
The Origin of the Boards 100
Fermi- 1 102
Making an Independent Finding of Safety at Diablo
Canyon, Circa 1966 104
Meeting the Provisions of the Atomic Energy Act: A
General Electric Case 107
Making Technical Improvements: A Condition of Licensing 108
Determining an Acceptably Low Hazard 110
The Need for Better Public Involvement 111
The Economics Of Nuclear Power, and Shifting Research Focus
to Nuclear Waste Management 114
Two More Terms as Department Chair, 1974-1979, and 1984-1988 116
Restimulating the Department 116
New Research Directions 119
Quantifying Safety Standards, Economic Issues, Fuel
Reprocessing, and Concerns about Weapons Proliferation
in the late 1970s 123
The Politicization of Public Concern Over Nuclear Power 128
V ACCIDENTS, SAFETY, CONFLICT, AND ARMS CONTROL 134
The Accident at Three Mile Island, 1979: Implications for
Safety and Industry s Response 134
Management Blunders in the Construction of the Diablo Canyon
Nuclear Power Plant 144
Reflections on Resolving Conflicts between the Nuclear Industry
and Its Opponents 152
Safety Reviews of the River Bend, Louisiana, and Rancho Seco,
California Nuclear Power Plants 155
The SP-100 Project: Nuclear Power for Space Applications,
1986-1990 158
Investigating the Chernobyl Reactor Accident, 1986: Implications
for the N Reactor at Hanford, Washington, and Reactors in
the Former Soviet Union 161
Member of the Delegation to the Soviet Union for Cooperation on
Nuclear Reactor Safety, 1988 166
Member of a Delegation on Arms Control to the Ukraine, 1994 170
VI GEOLOGIC REPOSITORIES FOR NUCLEAR WASTE: PREDICTING PERFORMANCE
AND DEVELOPING SAFETY STANDARDS 173
Developing a Research Program on the Transport of Nuclear
Waste Through Geologic Media 173
Origins of the Recommendation for a Geologic Repository
Program 178
A Theoretical Breakthrough in Predicting the Rate of Appearance
of Radioactive Materials in the Environment, 1988 180
The Waste Isolation System Study, and Brother s Role in
Developing the Theory 184
Outside Reviewer for the Swedish Program, 1986-1991 186
Waste Transport, and the Government s Program to Select a
High-level Nuclear Waste Repository 189
Setting Safety Criteria for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission,
1977 193
Technical Difficulties, Delays, and Shrinking Rooms at WIPP,
1978-1985 195
Problems with the EPA Standards for Dose Limits 198
Dissenting Opinion on Yucca Mountain Standards, 1995 201
VII LOOKING FORWARD, LOOKING BACK: PLANNING FOR FUTURE PUBLIC SAFETY
AND REFLECTING ON CAREER, FAMILY, AND THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRY AS
A WHOLE 206
Dealing with Possible Conflicts of Interest in Committee Work 206
Scientific Master to the Court on a Lawsuit Concerning Wartime
Releases of Radioactivity at Hanford, Washington, 1994 207
Site Characteristics of Yucca Mountain and Designing for
Future Public Safety 211
Seismicity and Volcanism 211
Ground Water, Climate Change, and Long-term Warning
Systems 213
Making the Repository Watertight and Reducing the
Solubility of Uranium 215
Interim Above-ground Storage of Nuclear Waste to Deter
Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons 220
Efforts to Stop Overly Lenient Standards in Proposed
Legislation 226
More Caution Needed: Reflections on the Rapid Development of
Nuclear Power 229
More Reflections on the Department at Cal 230
Hans Mark: Department Chair, the Free Speech Movement,
and National Defense 230
Few Women and Minorities in the Department 233
Committee Work on Campus 234
Sibling Rivalry, Music, and Family Support 236
TAPE GUIDE 242
APPENDIX 244
A Trivial Pursuits: A Collection of Chronicles 245
B Comments from Colleagues 288
C Citations 290
D Curriculum Vitae for Thomas H. Pigford 293
E Thomas H. Pigford, List of Publications 300
F University History Series List 319
INDEX 333
PREFACE
When President Robert Gordon Sproul proposed that the Regents of the
University of California establish a Regional Oral History Office, he was
eager to have the office document both the University s history and its
impact on the state. The Regents established the office in 1954, "to
tape record the memoirs of persons who have contributed significantly to
the history of California and the West," thus embracing President
Sproul s vision and expanding its scope.
Administratively, the new program at Berkeley was placed within the
library, but the budget line was direct to the Office of the President.
An Academic Senate committee served as executive. In the four decades
that have followed, the program has grown in scope and personnel, and the
office has taken its place as a division of The Bancroft Library, the
University s manuscript and rare books library. The essential purpose of
the Regional Oral History Office, however, remains the same: to document
the movers and shakers of California and the West, and to give special
attention to those who have strong and continuing links to the University
of California.
The Regional Oral History Office at Berkeley is the oldest oral
history program within the University system, and the University History
Series is the Regional Oral History Office s longest established and most
diverse series of memoirs. This series documents the institutional
history of the University, through memoirs with leading professors and
administrators. At the same time, by tracing the contributions of
graduates, faculty members, officers, and staff to a broad array of
economic, social, and political institutions, it provides a record of the
impact of the University on the wider community of state and nation.
The oral history approach captures the flavor of incidents, events,
and personalities and provides details that formal records cannot reach.
For faculty, staff, and alumni, these memoirs serve as reminders of the
work of predecessors and foster a sense of responsibility toward those
who will join the University in years to come. Thus, they bind together
University participants from many eras and specialties, reminding them of
interests in common. For those who are interviewed, the memoirs present
a chance to express perceptions about the University, its role and
lasting influences, and to offer their own legacy of memories to the
University itself.
The University History Series over the years has enjoyed financial
support from a variety of sources. These include alumni groups and
individuals, campus departments, administrative units, and special groups
as well as grants and private gifts. For instance, the Women s Faculty
Club supported a series on the club and its members in order to preserve
insights into the role of women on campus. The Alumni Association
supported a number of interviews, including those with Ida Sproul, wife
of the President, and athletic coaches Clint Evans and Brutus Hamilton.
ii
Their own academic units, often supplemented with contributions from
colleagues, have contributed for memoirs with Dean Ewald T. Grether,
Business Administration; Professor Garff Wilson, Public Ceremonies; Deans
Morrough P. O Brien and John Whinnery, Engineering; and Dean Milton
Stern, UC Extension. The Office of the Berkeley Chancellor has supported
oral history memoirs with Chancellors Edward W. Strong and Albert H.
Bowker .
To illustrate the University/community connection, many memoirs of
important University figures have in turn inspired, enriched, or grown
out of broader series documenting a variety of significant California
issues. For example, the Water Resources Center-sponsored interviews of
Professors Percy H. McGaughey, Sidney T. Harding, and Wilfred Langelier
have led to an ongoing series of oral histories on California water
issues. The California Wine Industry Series originated with an interview
of University enologist William V. Cruess and now has grown to a fifty-
nine-interview series of California s premier winemakers. California
Democratic Committeewoman Elinor Heller was interviewed in a series on
California Women Political Leaders, with support from the National
Endowment for the Humanities; her oral history was expanded to include an
extensive discussion of her years as a Regent of the University through
interviews funded by her family s gift to The Bancroft Library.
To further the documentation of the University s impact on state and
nation, Berkeley s Class of 1931, as their class gift on the occasion of
their fiftieth anniversary, endowed an oral history series titled "The
University of California, Source of Community Leaders." The series
reflects President Sproul s vision by recording the contributions of the
University s alumni, faculty members and administrators. The first oral
history focused on President Sproul himself. Interviews with thirty-four
key individuals dealt with his career from student years in the early
1900s through his term as the University s eleventh President, from 1930-
1958.
Gifts such as these allow the Regional Oral History Office to
continue to document the life of the University and its link with its
community. Through these oral history interviews, the University keeps
its own history alive, along with the flavor of irreplaceable personal
memories, experiences, and perceptions. A full list of completed memoirs
and those in process in the series is included following the index of
this volume.
September 1994
Harriet Nathan, Series Director
Regional Oral History Office University History Series
University of California
Berkeley, California Willa K. Baum, Division Head
Regional Oral History Office
ill
INTRODUCTION-by Richard D. Smyser
I would have known about Thomas Harrington Pigford even if I
hadn t married Mary Cochran Pigford, his sister.
Prominent and uniquely controversial as he has been for fifty
years within the nuclear establishment- -industry, academe- -Tom would
inevitably have come to my attention as, for most of those same fifty
years, I was editor of The Oak Ridger, daily newspaper in Oak Ridge,
Tennessee, a community preoccupied with things nuclear.
Furthermore, his first significant nuclear engineering experiences
were at Oak Ridge National Laboratory. (Tom and his late first wife,
Katy, living at the time in Oak Ridge with their beloved female boxer,
Nemesis, were first to know of our marriage plans and then two of only
five guests at the wedding in May 1950.)
But had it not been my immense good fortune to successfully court
Mary, there is much about Thomas of which I would NOT have been aware
even after a studied reading of the engrossing 241-page oral history
that interviewer Carl Wilmsen has elicited from an often not readily
self-revealing person.
As a newsman alert to nuclear issues, I likely would have known
Tom to be a widely sought-after expert while also a discerning and often
severe critic of virtually every aspect of nuclear science and
engineering. Not likely, however, would I have guessed that he rigs a
mean rope swing, as he did from backyard trees for both his and Katy s
and our two daughters respectively when they were mutually of rope
swinging age.
From reporting and reading the news, I probably would have learned
how Tom, like few others, has won the confidence of seemingly
irreconcilable opposing parties to many of the major nuclear-related
debates and court actions of the past half century. Both industry
people and environmentalists have coveted him on advisory committees and
investigative commissions. But only because of our family ties have I
appreciated him also as an enthusiastic patron of his late sister s
paintings oils, watercolors. (Mary, a year and a half older than Tom,
died earlier this year.)
Soon after his discharge from navy service as an lieutenant J.G.
during World War II he was named director of the Massachusetts Institute
of Technology Graduate School of Engineering Practice located in Oak
Ridge. But his two-year Oak Ridge residency notwithstanding, his name
would have become familiar to me from my obligatory reading of journals
like Science and Nucleonics, especially as later he has gotten deep into
iv
national and international concern for potentially dangerous nuclear
weapons and civilian power production radioactive residue.
Absent the in-law connection, I might even have sensed his social
consciousness reflected in his populist professional positions that
frequently make news. However, but for his brief tolerance of me on a
tennis court, I might never have fully grasped his multi-faceted
athletic prowess and intimidating competitive drive. (He taught me the
tennis term "unforced error" of which, while playing against him, I was
guilty of many.)
After leaving Oak Ridge, Tom would return at least once a year for
meetings of one of the numerous committees and commissions on which he
served. In anticipation of tennis games with real opponents that he
would often arrange during these visits, he warehoused a pair of smelly
tennis shoes in one of our closets, admonishing us regularly to care for
them properly. Talk about safeguarding hazardous materials.
***
Talk about the compleat nuclear person.
Tom s first practical nuclear work at Oak Ridge National
Laboratory was with an experimental reactor with implications for a
nuclear-powered aircraft. Not too many years later he was involved with
studies on a nuclear-powered merchant ship. Still later he worked on
projects relevant to nuclear-powered space travel, including technology
with the potential for rocketing spent nuclear fuel to the sun.
The aircraft project died soon after conception, Tom among the
early skeptics. The merchant ship became a reality but, as Tom had
foreseen, proved useful mostly only as a showpiece. Technology for
nuclear-powered space travelif not yet nuclear-powered space launch-
has been demonstrated, but shooting the sun with nuclear wastes is still
only an idea.
Tom s principal nuclear role has been as educator. Three times he
was named chairman of the Department of Nuclear Engineering at the
University of California at Berkeley, this after his own academic
training at, first, Georgia Tech (he was first in his Class of 1943) and
then MIT.
At Berkeley Tom oversaw the assembly, bringing to criticality and
operation of a teaching and research reactor and then, after twenty-five
years, the reactor s dismantling and then removal. When the reactor was
first planned, Tom had insisted that it be located on the main campus.
He believed strongly that neither his students nor their program should
be isolated.
There were, of course, protests demonstrations this being
Berkeley. But with communication aggressively pursued by Tom, the
protestors became satisfied that they were being heard while the
department s teaching and research was not inhibited. And actually,
when the reactor was shut down, some protestors protested its removal.
They d lost a convenient target.
And what broadly based teaching and research it was. In time
nuclear engineering education at Berkeleythe curriculum and student
and staff researchbecame as multi-faceted as Tom s personal evolution
of interests: power-producing reactor design, the fuel cycle including
reprocessing, nuclear power economics and, of course, safety and health
effects .
His interest in the all-encompassing nuclear waste issue was first
piqued in 1977 by detection of a significant error in some crucial waste
calculations. "We later added waste disposal as an emerging technical
challenge, though (it was) once said to be a trivial technical problem,"
Tom tells his oral history interviewer, adding, "We should have added it
sooner. "
And thus Tom the consultant, the expert court witness and the
member of the prestigious Kemeny Commission to investigate the March
1979 accident at the Three Mile Island Nuclear plant in Pennsylvania, to
which I related not only as kin by marriage to Tom and editor of a
newspaper in a very much nuclear town, but also because York,
Pennsylvania, the city of my birth and boyhood, is just seventeen miles
south and downstream of the reactor site in the Susquehanna River.
More than any of his other authoritative roles as part of the now
mounting debate on the future of nuclear power, Tom s voice and writing
for the Three Mile Island investigation established him as "the
conscience of the American nuclear industry," as Tom was characterized
by Walter Lowenstein of the Electric Power Research Institute at the
symposium held in Berkeley in 1989 to mark Tom s retirement.
In a "news analysis" in the Christian Science Monitor of November
5, 1979, Tom was described by fellow Kemeny Commission members as
"strongly but not blindly pro-nuclear." Another commission member said
of their final deliberations on a set of recommendations, "We were
trying to spread our sails and there Tom was throwing out anchors." As
a result, the Monitor reporter (David F. Salisbury) wrote, "the nuclear
engineer had an inordinate effect on the recommendations "--moderating
them to be significantly less severe on nuclear technology.
"I had by that time been identified as both a member of the
nuclear engineering profession as well as a challenger of some of the
things the profession did," Tom says of his appointment to the Three
Mile Island investigating group.
vi
***
"Strongly but not blindly pro-nuclear."
Tom s calculations challenged assumptions on the health effects of
the contamination cloud from World War II releases of radiation from
plutonium production in reactors at the Hanford, Washington, nuclear
site, plutonium that in August 1945 fueled the atomic bomb dropped on
Nagasaki, Japan, just three days after the first bomb, fueled with U-235
fabricated by E. 0. Lawrence s electromagnetic process at Oak Ridge s
Y-12 plant, was dropped on Hiroshima.
Before construction of the Diablo nuclear power plant near San
Luis Obispo in California, Tom raised serious questions during the
planningand accompanying court actions.
And most recently he has been a leading dissenter on the Yucca
Mountain, Nevada, nuclear waste disposal site, standing firm within
oversight groups for more stringent allowable release limits. Safety
assurances for the next 10,000 years are not sufficiently forward-
looking for Tom. He thinks guarantees are needed for the next million
years .
But, significantly, his insistence on stricter Yucca Mountain
standards is motivated by his belief in the ultimate integrity of
nuclear power. He wants the disposal site to become both economically
and politically acceptable and, he believes, this can only happen if the
ultimate in safeguards is required. And this hasn t happened yet.
His questioning of these projects is why, in nuclear disputes, he
has become acceptable as referee, advisor and/or confidante, or all
three simultaneously, to both industry and environmental groups. "I
feel free to help each side on the points that I think are worth helping
them on," says Tom.
Then there is Tom the negotiator, the peacemaker. "Let s get
together for a weekend without the lawyers present and talk to each
other," he has proposed to some of the seemingly most antagonistic
parties, like the utilities and the Sierra Club in one dispute.
***
Thomas Harrington Pigford, voice of the people, champion of the
common man, advocate, like we news people are staunchly, of freedom of
information. His favorite among his fellow Kemeny commissioners was a
housewife from Middletown, Pennsylvania, the town closest to the
reactor.
vii
In the Diablo Canyon court proceedings, a physics teacher from a
Santa Barbara high school sought to offer information suggesting that
the reactor was being built too close to an earthquake fault. Utility
people tried to bar his testimony, but Tom insisted that the professor
be heard, and he was.
Tom feels strongly about something I have felt just as strongly
about as a newspaper editor: that the pubic has a right to be witness
to--and an active part of--the planning process for major projects that
will affect public life, especially those financed fully or partly with
public funds.
Tom states repeatedly that his dissentshis insistence on probing
all technical questions, his unwillingness to settle for anything less
than the most foolproof of standards, his stand on open proceedings-
have one goal: to develop nuclear reactors and nuclear waste disposal
procedures that the public will accept.
And thus, instinctively, his latest concern: what he calls "civil
plutonium," the large quantities of this highly toxic material produced
by nuclear power reactors all over the world that could fall into the
hands of terrorists. He s done articles, like one especially with
journalist Luther J. Carter for Issues of Science and Technology,
journal of the National Academy of Sciences. He s been speaking, like
here in Oak Ridge in May of last year as part of our Community Lectures
Series. And, the responsible citizen, he s been writing to his and
other senators and representatives. "I m getting identified as an
activist, which I m proud of," he says.
***
Tom the athlete:
Not just the tennis player, but squash, skiing and swimming. He
was a lifeguard at Highland Park Pool in his native city, Meridian,
Mississippi, during his high school years.
And sailing bigtime. He and his crew aboard his scrupulously
cared- for Thistle have won numerous sailing championships in San
Francisco Bay Area competition. With a big lead in one regatta event
off Palo Alto, their boat capsized just at race s end. But despite this
calamitythe swamped vessel now lying on its sidethe crew scrambled
back on board and the boat drifted across the finish line a winner.
Tom accompanied Mary and me on a group tour of Australia and New
Zealand in November, 1993. One of the New Zealand stops was at the
gorge where bungee jumping originated. As Tom watched the jumpers, many
of them first timers, you could see the juices flowing. He wanted to
viii
try, Mary and I were convinced, and only because the group had to move
on did he not .
***
Tom the linguist:
In preparation for his year at the University of Kyoto, he studied
Japanese intently. I visited Tom and Katy there briefly on my way to
Mainland China with a newspaper editors group in the spring of 1975. To
help me make my way alone from Tokyo, Tom sent me a set of personally
crafted flash cards displaying all the basic questionswhere 1
s the
train, the taxi, the bathroom? They worked wonderfully.
While with them in Kyoto for only about twenty-four hours, the
three of us took the train for a midday tour of Hiroshima, the first
visit for all of us and a moving experience.
For his Kyoto stay, and in anticipation of future consulting in
Japan, Tom wanted to translate his surname into Japanese characters for
use on the name cards obligatory in Japanese business and academic
culture, but there were difficulties. The Japanese word for pig,
"buta," simply was not acceptable, pigs being not well regarded in
Japan.
Fortuitously, however, he encountered a Japanese linguistic
professor who suggested that he use instead the Japanese word
"inoshishi," meaning wild boar, an animal respected for its fierce
determination, a quality compatible with Tom. So Tom became Ino Se,
Inoshishi shortened as the Japanese are wont to do, plus Se, the
Japanese word for shallow river and acceptable for "ford."
***
Tom the author:
Hundreds of reports and articles for journals and most notably,
with MIT colleague Manson Benedict, Nuclear Chemical Engineering, THE
nuclear engineering text. Tom and Manson taught together early in Tom s
career, always in total professional harmony, Tom says with emphasis, to
which an incident at our tiny first Oak Ridge house attests.
Late one night--a warm one, fortunately there was a knock at the
door. There in the dark stood Tom and Professor Benedict, suitcases in
hand. Either something had gone amiss with their reservations or they d
never made them, but could they spend the night? Of course, Mary told
her brother and his friend, if one would sleep in a jungle hammock hung
ix
between trees in our backyard. We had only a single guest bed. Tom
graciously took the hammock and all slept well as far as we knew.
I can t count the times that I have been told by nuclear people
here in Oak Ridge and elsewhere that the Benedict-Pigford book is the
bible for nuclear engineering.
***
Tom the brother:
After each of his visits to Oak Ridge over the years, Tom would
take at least one of Mary s paintings back to Berkeley. That he thought
she was a pretty good painter (she eschewed being called an artist) gave
Mary great joy. On one of his return trips, Delta Airlines lost a large
oil seascape in baggage handling. We contemplated a generous damage
claim for an irreplaceable work of art, but after a few days Delta found
it.
Mary remembered a family trip to the Mississippi Gulf Coast-
overnight in a church campground. Tom, age about five, caught a fish
and, out of compassion for its capture, insisted on sleeping with it.
Mary remembered her first day of school. When she got back home
there was Tom on the wide front porch of their comfortable house on a
shady street in Meridian. In his hand were the Sunday comics which he
thrust at her and demanded, "Now read!"
Mary, doing graduate work at Emory University Medical School at
the same time Tom was an undergraduate at Georgia Tech, recalls Tom
asking her to be his date for one of the big Tech proms. They had a
ball, she said, this at the heyday of the Big Band Era.
One evening Mary and I were guests at a party at the home of Janet
and H. D. MacPherson, both now deceased. She and Mary had worked
closely on League of Women Voters projects. Both of us knew him as a
distinguished reactor engineer at ORNL. We had just learned that their
son, Robert, mathematician at the Institute for Advanced Studies at
Princeton, New Jersey, had been elected to the National Academy of
Sciences. Knowing that "Mac," as we all called him, was a member of the
National Academy of Engineering, we remarked that the MacPhersons were
likely the only family in Oak Ridge to have two members of these highly
respected academies.
Without hesitation, Mac looked directly at Mary, denied the
distinction, and reminded her that her two brothers were both Academy
members too. (Tom, in his interview, has fully acknowledged Robert as
an esteemed chemical engineer, chamber music colleague, and sibling
rival. )
As special for Mary and me as having Tom and Katy as two of only
five persons at our own wedding in 1950 was our presence at Betty and
Tom s wedding in November 1994--the ceremony in an idyllic meadow and
blessed by perfect weather, a festive reception following under a
pristine white tent surprisingly compatible with the rustic northern
California ranch setting where it all occurred. And the following day,
a Sunday, a gracious and gala luncheon at the winery of their friends,
the Hafners, in Healdsburg nearby.
***
Tom the poet, and from his "Trivial Pursuits," tales of his boyhood
which he says he wrote mostly for his grandchildren:
"The
lazy S curve of a fly line being thrown on a trout stream,
with the fly landing gently on the water in imitation of a hatch,
is beauty to behold."
"Sailing is absolutely beautiful! There is no noise other than
the wind on the rigging and water; the interaction of sun, wind,
sails, hull and water is pure poetry and music, always changing."
Dick Smyser
Oak Ridge, Tennessee
June, 2001
xi
INTRODUCTION- -by Elizabeth Pigford
Tom and I met in September 1993, a year after his wife Katy had
died and my first husband and I were divorced; we were married in late
1994. So, perforce, my knowledge and impressions of him are incomplete.
Even in this brief time I have come to realize how extraordinary
and many- faceted has been his life. His rhododendrons thrive. His
woodworking is exquisite. His photographs are beautifully crafted. His
oboe playing has been a source of great pleasure to him and others. He
has pursued tennis and sailing with verve and skill. All this in
addition to his professional accomplishments.
Professionally, Tom is known for his intelligence, perseverance
and independent thinking: he castigated the Nuclear Regulatory
Commission in his appendage to the Three Mile Island Commission s
report; he has consistently insisted on the most stringent standards for
public health protection against possible radioactivity at the proposed
geologic waste disposal facility at Yucca Mountain; at Oak Ridge, the
home of nuclear fuel reprocessing, Tom spoke out against such
reprocessing. The list goes on. This is a man who speaks his mind,
declaring his views only after meticulous research and maintaining his
positions even in the face of powerful opposition.
Tom has been selected for prominent roles in government and
industry for his fair-mindedness relating to difficult issues. In this
oral history Tom describes the incident in the mid-1980s (this incident
has not received wide attention to date) in which the Board of Directors
of northern California s beleaguered utility, Pacific Gas & Electric,
hired him to protect the corporation and stockholders against possible
legal wrongdoing by the company s management in the construction of the
Diablo Canyon nuclear facility.
More recently, in 1993, Tom was chosen as Scientific Master of the
Federal District Court, Second Circuit in the suit brought by thousands
of individuals against the corporations who ran the plutonium
manufacturing operation at Hanford, Washington, during World War II.
The release of radioactivity to air and water is alleged to have caused
numerous cases of cancer. The litigants and the defense agreed that Tom
would make an astute, fair-minded and objective analysis of the hundreds
of thousands of pages of documents submitted by both sides.
On his retirement from the University of California in 1989, an
international symposium was organized to recognize his achievements.
Unbeknown to him, about sixty former students and associates convened
from as far away as Japan, Sweden and France to attend the two day
xii
seminar: an event of substance was more to Tom s liking than a social
event and his associates recognized this.
But what is the measure of the man? Tom s awards speak for
themselves but they don t convey how he is evaluated as a person. "Tom
is a national treasure," one of his professional colleagues has said to
me. In Japan, there is a group of fans called the Pigford Club. When
Tom and I were in Tokyo in 1995, more than twenty-five Japanese friends,
colleagues, and admirers attended a social function in his honor.
Not all evaluations have been positive; a controversial fellow
faculty member, Charles Schwartz of the Physics Department, assailed Tom
as an example of a faculty member s inappropriate consulting, asserting
that such consulting was a misuse of a connection with UC. Many
universities, MIT for example, encourage this type of involvement, but
Tom s critic took a different view and released a news story on the day
Tom was leaving the country for a stint as a visiting professor at
Kuwait University. Even with extensive coverage in the San Francisco
Chronicle not much happened because of this incident, but it was a
jarring experience.
TOM S LIGHTER, MORE PERSONAL, LESS PROFESSIONAL SIDE:
A former graduate student has told me that Tom took him and a few
of his fellow students to a celebratory luncheon at the acclaimed Chez
Panisse restaurant. The event was not in recognition of some national
award or publication of a paper or testimony to a congressional
committee. Rather, the occasion was prompted by his having been named
the principal oboist in a local, semi-professional orchestra.
Who would have thought that this brainy professor would be hooked
on a soap opera? Where possible, and sometimes his day is planned,
around watching The Bold and the Beautiful. This soap opera gets to
him: when Macey died, Tom misted over. Interrupting him, except during
commercials, is inadvisable.
Tom has spoken professionally for decades, often off the cuff;
yet, a brief eulogy was almost too much. At the January 2001 service
for his beloved sister, Mary, whom Dick has beautifully and aptly
described, speaking was so difficult for him that he wrote out his
remarks and wasn t sure that he would be able to pay the tribute in
person.
Tom was even selected as a character in a novel. Under the name
Thomas P. Harrington, Robert Heinlein parodied Tom s work as an expert
nuclear consultant.
A youthful caper: In his younger days, while a student at MIT, Tom
and his roommate, both southerners, saw fit to fly a Confederate flag
xiii
from the window of their room. Since the room overlooked the
Charles River, the flag was highly visible and controversial, even
becoming the subject of an item in the Boston Globe.
For all Tom s technical and policy-influencing accomplishments, he
can be the quintessential absent-minded professor. Frequently, he
emerges from his basement workshop with bruises, often bleeding, on his
bald pate. "How did you get that, dear?" almost always brings the
response, "I have no idea."
During the relatively brief time that Tom has been a part of my
life, he has been caring, loyal and supportive the way he treats other
family members and his colleagues alike.
I am still uncovering the layers of his personality and have
learned a great deal about him from reading this oral history. I am
grateful to the Regional Oral History Office of the University of
California Berkeley s Bancroft Library for undertaking the
documentation, to date, of his remarkable life.
Betty Pigford
Oakland, California
June 2001
xiv
INTERVIEW HISTORY- -Thomas H. Pigford
In 1952 Thomas Pigford was asked to help start a new department of
nuclear engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Mr.
Pigford had entered MIT as a graduate student in 1943 after receiving
his B.S. in chemical engineering from Georgia Tech. In the spring of
1944 he was commissioned as a radar officer in the U.S. Navy, and when
he was discharged two years later he returned to MIT and completed his
doctoral research on combustion in 1949 under Professor Hoyt Hottel. In
1950 he was appointed assistant professor in chemical engineering and
director of MIT s Graduate School of Engineering Practice at Oak Ridge,
Tennessee. One purpose of the practice school was to contribute to the
more rapid transfer of the new nuclear science and technology to the
private sector for peaceful applications. When his two-year assignment
at Oak Ridge was nearing completion, Mr. Pigford jumped at the
opportunity to work with Manson Benedict in starting the new graduate
program in nuclear engineering at MIT, a field that was yet to be
defined and developed.
This beginning set the stage for a long career in which Professor
Pigford has devoted himself to finding the truth and openly engaging it
with the many challenges of a very complex technology. This career,
spanning five decades, included starting the Department of Nuclear
Engineering at the University of California at Berkeley in 1959, and
staying on to chair the department twice more and teach in it for the
next forty years. It also included serving as a consultant to industry,
serving on federal atomic safety and power plant licensing boards, and
serving on committees which analyzed the accidents at the Three Mile
Island and Chernobyl nuclear power plants. In the 1970s Professor
Pigford began devoting his energies to the management of nuclear waste,
and in the late 1990s he began working on the problem of nuclear
proliferation.
Due to his long career in nuclear engineering and the many
contributions he has made to the University of California, the deposit
of his papers in The Bancroft Library in the fall of 1998 generated
interest in conducting and preparing Professor Pigford s oral history as
part of the Regional Oral History Office s (ROHO) ongoing University
History program. The oral history would be funded by an unrestricted
research grant received by Professor Pigford.
With these arrangements made, Willa Baum, then division head of
ROHO, asked me to conduct the oral history. Having no expertise in
nuclear engineering, and only a passing familiarity with nuclear power
issues, I was hesitant. However, none of the other editors at ROHO had
any special knowledge of these subjects either, and since I was an
interviewer/editor in the natural resources and the environment project
XV
area, where oral histories dealing with nuclear power would seem to
belong, I ultimately accepted the assignment.
On a warm and sunny afternoon in August of 1999 I met with
Professor Pigford at his home to discuss the topics to cover in the oral
history and the general format of the interviews. As I drove up the
winding streets lined with modern, custom homes built after the
conflagration of 1991 destroyed this Oakland hills neighborhood, I
wondered what sort of man Professor Pigford would be. Would he be a
booster for the nuclear power industry, espousing views contrary in
every respect to the views of opponents of nuclear power? To my
interest and delight, I found a man who was much more thoughtful,
deliberative, and multi-dimensional than such a flat, dull
characterization would allow. During that first meeting Professor
Pigford told me of the two instances in which he, himself, opposed
nuclear power plants, and related his view that much public opposition
to nuclear power was well taken and led to much needed improvements in
reactor design.
Our initial meeting also shaped the subsequent interviews in
important ways. First, during the meeting Professor Pigford said that
he had been interviewed by journalists many times before, and wondered
what my interviewing style was. Did I ask questions in rapid
succession, expecting only short answers from him, or did I ask fewer,
open-ended questions, expecting longer responses? I told him that the
latter was more my style, and we followed this format in the interviews.
Another outcome of our initial meeting was Professor Pigford "s
help in my preparations for the interviews. He loaned me a copy of the
introductory textbook he co-authored with Hanson Benedict in the 1950s,
suggested additional readings, and gave me copies of his recent papers
on nuclear waste repositories and nuclear proliferation. Based on these
readings, as well as on research I did in Professor Pigford s papers in
The Bancroft Library and in other literature, 1 drew up an interview
outline and emailed this to Professor Pigford before the first
interview.
Beginning in September and ending in December of 1999, we recorded
seven interviews. The interviews were approximately two hours or
slightly longer in length, yielding a total of about sixteen hours of
recorded tape. All of the interviews were conducted in the living room
of Professor Pigford s home. Normally Professor Pigford and I were the
only ones present in the room, although his wife, Elizabeth (Betty),
would occasionally work in a room down the hall and would sometimes
interrupt us to serve us tea.
While we had originally intended to do five interviews, and the
original budget was set accordingly, it became clear as the fifth
interview approached that we would need more time to address additional
topics, and expand on others that we had already covered. I thus drew
xvi
up a list of new topics to cover and gave this to Professor Pigford
along with an estimate of how much more a longer oral history would
cost. Professor Pigford added to the list of topics and indicated that
he would raise additional funds to pay for an expanded oral history.
At one point during the interviews Professor Pigford gave me a
copy of a collection of autobiographical vignettes he had written for
his grandchildren entitled "Trivial Pursuits." Since this included much
detail about his personal life which we did not cover in the interviews,
I suggested that we use it as an appendix to the oral history volume.
I began editing the transcript of the first interview as soon as I
received it from the transcriber. When I had completed my initial
editing, Professor Pigford asked to review it right away rather than
follow standard ROHO practice and wait until editing of the entire oral
history was complete. I agreed to this, and Professor Pigford shared
the draft transcript with his wife. After reading through it, Betty
wrote a memo to her husband suggesting many new questions most of which
dealt with Professor Pigford s childhood, family life, and his reactions
to events in his life. Unfortunately, we ended having too little time
to address all of her questions in the interviews. Professor Pigford
therefore responded to them in two written inserts he prepared for the
transcript during his review of it.
Also during his review of the edited transcript Professor Pigford
prepared written revisions of two events he narrated during the
interviews. At his request we have replaced the corresponding portions
of the interview transcript with these written revisions. Professor
Pigford indicated that his reason for writing out revised accounts of
these events was to add more detail to the narrative. The written
portions of the text are clearly marked. They begin on pages 134 and
144.
Due to staffing changes at the ROHO, including my own departure to
accept another position in the College of Natural Resources, Professor
Pigford prepared the index for this volume.
The result of our collaboration on this volume is the oral history
you riow hold in your hands. It is an oral history which bears out the
impression I formulated of Professor Pigford at our very first meeting:
that of a man who values the open exchange of ideas in pursuit of the
truth, who believes in the efficacy of nuclear science and technology,
and who believes in applying that science and technology as competently
as possible to protect the environment and to safeguard public health
for present and future generations.
Tapes of the interview sessions are available for listening at The
Bancroft Library. Other oral histories in the University History and
Higher Education series are also available for use in The Bancroft
xvii
Library (see the list in the appendix in this volume), as are Professor
Pigford s papers.
The Regional Oral History Office was established in 1954 to
augment through tape-recorded memoirs the Library s materials on the
history of California and the West. Copies of all interviews are
available for research use in The Bancroft Library and in the UCLA
Department of Special Collections. The office is under the direction of
Richard Candida Smith, Director, and the administrative direction of
Charles B. Faulhaber, James D. Hart Director of The Bancroft Library,
University of California, Berkeley.
Carl Wilmsen
Interviewer /Editor
July 19, 2001
Regional Oral History Office
The Bancroft Library
University of California, Berkeley
xviii
BIOGRAPHICAL INFORMATION
Full name Thomas Harrington Pigford
Date of birth: April 21, 1922 Birthplace: Meridian, Mississippi
Father s full name; Lamar Pigford
Occupation: mail clerk Birthplace: Toomsuba, Mississippi
Mother s full name: Zula Harrington Pigford
Occupation: housewife Birthplace: Daleville, Mississippi
Your spouse: Catherine Cathey Pigford (deceased)
Elizabeth Weekes Pigford (current)
Occupation: retired Birthplace: Boston, Massachusetts
Your children: Cynthia Pigford Naylor
Julie Pigford Brink
Where did you grow up? Meridian, Mississippi
Present community Oakland, California
Education: B.S. Chemical Engineering, Georgia Institute of
Technology, 1943
M.S. Chemical Engineering, Massachusetts Institute
of Technology, 1948
Sc.D. Chemical Engineering, Massachusetts
Institute of Technology, 1952
Occupation: Retired Professor of Nuclear Engineering,
University of California, Berkeley, California
Areas of expertise: Chemical and nuclear Engineering, design of
nuclear power reactors, the nuclear fuel cycle,
isotope separation, fuel reprocessing, waste
disposal, nuclear safety, nuclear proliferation
Other interests or activities: Music, gardening, woodworking,
woodcarving, sailing, tennis, skiing
Organizations in which you are active: National Academy of
Engineering, American Nuclear Society, Berkeley
Tennis Club, Bohemian Club
^/ ^-^
SIGNATURE :
">-^- ^/ ^-^y _ DATE: June 27, 2001
INTERVIEW WITH THOMAS PIGFORD
I EARLY INFLUENCES, EDUCATION, AND CAREER CHOICES
[Interview 1: September 21, 1999] it 1
Family Background. Early Influences, and Pre-Graduate Education
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
As we were just saying, I wanted to start with your personal and
family background, and important influences on you while you
were growing up. And just for the record, I want to start with
where and when you were born.
In April. April
I was born in Meridian, Mississippi in 1922.
21.
And you grew up in Meridian?
Yes.
What did your parents do?
My father [Lamar Pigford] worked for the United States Postal
Service. At first, he worked in the mail car on the railroad,
which would carry mail from one city to another, and he would
sort mail along the way. Then after many years of that, he was
transferred to a desk job so he did not have to go away and work
on the railroad, but worked for the post office in Meridian.
Those were the Depression years, at least the years when I grew
up, and it was considered very important to have a secure
federal job because you had security of employment as long as
you did it reasonably well. We didn t have a lot of money, but
at least he knew it was coming in.
My mother [Zula Harrington Pigford] had been a school
teacher. She had gone, I think, through either a one year or a
## This symbol indicates that a tape or tape segment has begun or
ended. A guide to the tapes follows the transcript.
two year graduate training program to be a school teacher.
Other than that, neither my father nor my mother went to
college. But we had school teaching in the background. Next
door to where I lived was a house occupied by my two maiden
aunts who also were school teachers. And that was the family
background.
[One of the aunts, whom we called "Ammie"--her real name was
Alma--taught seventh grade arithmetic. 2
I loved her dearly, but
it was with some trepidation when I graduated from Marian Park
Elementary School and entered Meridian Junior High where Ammie
taught. I was in her arithmetic class. I had to ride to and
from school with her, and many of the kids chided me for being
the teacher s pet. I was anything but! She let it be known
that she expected my good behavior and also expected me to learn
something.
It was probably a fortunate environment for me, for I had
just fallen in love with an adorable little black-haired girl
named Emma Gene. Emma Gene must have liked me, too, for she
started appearing on Ammie s doorstep to hitch a ride to school
with us. Ammie insisted on keeping my thoughts focused on
school work, otherwise I would have daydreamed all day about
Emma Gene. That love affair lasted only a few months, after
which I turned to tennis, woodworking, and school band to
overcome my great grief. Maybe I even learned some arithmetic.
Ammie s older sister was named Cora, but nicknamed "Cowa"
by
Mother during their early childhood. Cowa had once taught, but
when I came along she worked in the junior high school
lunchroom. I think that all students got free lunches. I saw
her during lunch and recess. I felt a little hemmed in by
family.
Another close relative whom I admired was my mother s older
brother, Herbert. Uncle Herbert and his family lived on a small
farm seven miles north of Meridian. Mother took us there
frequently on Sunday afternoon after church. I had to wear good
church clothes, and I was required to sit quietly on a chair and
say nothing while the adults talked. I thought their
conversation was absolutely boring. I hated that part of family
visits. However, after an hour or so of this Uncle Herbert
evidently sensed my discomfort and suggested that I might like
to go out and play. That there was no one to play with bothered
me not one bit. The farm itself was fascinating!
2
Professor Pigford added the bracketed material during his review of
the draft transcript.
This was before the days of rural electrification. The farm
had no electricity and no running water. At night they used
kerosene lamps. There was an outside toilet with a proper
half -moon silhouette cut into the door. All water was drawn
from a well just outside the kitchen. My mother would bring
them a bag of ice, from the big city of Meridian, to make ice
cream. I got to turn the beater and lick it clean once the ice
cream was made. It was absolutely delicious, made from pure
cream!
Uncle Herbert and his family grew all their own food and
grew cotton to sell. Picking cotton in the fall and hauling it
off to the local cotton gin, in a wagon pulled by a couple of
big mules, was fun, although picking cotton by hand is
back-breaking work. I was young enough to be spared. This kind
of work was done by black field hands who lived in some
disreputable shacks on the farm. They became my good friends.
The family custom was to slaughter a hog once every year,
always in the fall after the first frost. The slaughter
terrified me, but I loved the rendered products put up by Uncle
Herbert and Aunt Annis. Especially good were pieces of
backbone, scrapple, brains, some unnamed things that must have
been sweetbreads, pigs knuckles, and the delicious spiced
sausage that they stuffed into the cleaned-out intestines.
There were also hams, cured for months in the smokehouse.
In early autumn Uncle Herbert crushed sugar cane that he had
grown to make molasses. Molasses was a staple part of the diet.
The cane was stuffed into a crusher that was turned by a mule
walking in circles around the crusher, pulling the crusher
spoke. The resulting liquid fed into a large cast iron tub,
sitting on some rocks on the ground. A wood fire was kept
burning around the bottom of the tub. Slowly the liquid boiled
down to the thick viscous brown product that is molasses. It
must have taken several days. I got to stoke the fire and
taste .
Uncle Herbert poured this valuable product into one-gallon
tin cans and gave most of them to favored close relatives and
friends. Throughout the year my father s breakfast consisted
mainly of grits, biscuits, and molasses.
So, in spite of the torture of the formal gossip sessions, I
much enjoyed this side of my family. I always wanted to be
invited to stay overnight. I could hardly imagine the strange
practices of bathing in a tin washtub, sleeping on a feather
mattress, going outside to pee, watching the bats perched in the
rafters, and waking up to roosters. Strangely, I was never
invited. There was a strange formality to family relations. We
never visited except at the regular formal visiting hours. Only
rarely did the two families get together for dinner or supper.
I had been told that a few miles further north was the
larger farm where my mother and her siblings grew up.
Strangely, my mother never wanted to go there, so I never saw
it. I did inherit a horn made from a large conch shell, used to
call the field hands in from the fields for mid-day dinner.
My father s relatives were not so interesting to me. He
grew up on a farm, although his family also ran a country store.
During my time all his relatives lived in town. His older
brother must have been handsome and suave, because he kept
getting married to good-looking women.
My family were strict teetotalers, due, I suspect, to my
mother s strict Methodist beliefs. Whiskey was known to be a
cardinal sin. It must have been a real strain on mother when,
at age five, I became quite ill with pneumonia. There was a lot
of fever, and nothing seemed to work, not even the horrible
castor oil that I was made to take for illness and, at other
times, for punishment. As what was said by my doctor to be a
last resort, he administered a jolt of whiskey. Evidently it
worked, but my mother never again mentioned my sin.
Many years later I discovered a really fascinating addition
to our family history. One day in high school a new girl
introduced herself to me. To my surprise I learned that her
name was Pigford and that her father was my father s younger
brother. His name was Paul. I believe that her name was
Dorothy. With much excitement I told my mother about my new
relatives. She was so shocked that I expected to be in for
another dose of castor oil. I then learned that there was
indeed an Uncle Paul but that he was never mentioned because he
was one of the biggest bootleggers in the dry state of
Mississippi. He was evidently quite wealthy and was able to
evade prosecution by bribing the law officials. Of course, he
did not attend our church. His professional activities took him
all over the state. It was forbidden to even mention his name
in our house, hence I had never even heard of him.
Mother was shocked that I was curious and interested in
meeting Uncle Paul. Alas, I never did so.
It was about that time that I began to realize that a lot of
hypocrisy was going on about drinking. I would hear
testimonials in church about the evils of alcohol but later
found many of those same individuals at football games drinking
from flasks undoubtedly supplied by Uncle Paul. But, with such
upbringing, 1 was not about to depart from the family
strictures. I never touched alcohol until I graduated from
college and went to M.I.T.
During the war years, when home for a visit, I discovered a
pint of whiskey in my father s bureau drawer. I learned that he
was fairly relaxed about drinking and enjoyed an occasional
snort with his friends. Undoubtedly Mother had once discovered
the bottles when she put away his clean shirts. I expect that
she never mentioned that to my father. That was their way of
dealing with many problems.]
3
I had one brother who is no longer living. He became a
scientist and engineerin fact, a well known engineer.
Wilmsen: What was his name?
Pigford: Robert. He was five years older than me, and he died about
seven years ago. And my sister, who was in between, was
interested in laboratory science. She became a laboratory
techonologist working in hospitals doing laboratory tests. She
went to college, and got a four-year degree as a laboratory
technologist. She later became a member of the biomedical
research staff at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory in
Tennessee. She is an accomplished artist and painter.
Wilmsen: And her name?
Pigford: Mary. She s married to Dick Smyser. They live in Oak Ridge,
Tennessee. They have two daughters, Lucy and Katy.
[Mary is only two years older than I--I am the youngest of
the three siblings.
4
Because we are close in age, I identified
more with Mary than with Robert when growing up. There were few
boys my age in the neighborhood, so I kept trying to engage Mary
in boy s play, like cops and robbers. I once had to pay her
five cents to join me in roller skating down a neighbor s
driveway. We tolerated each other, as many siblings do, but we
seldom fought. She did teach me how to draw. But there are
vivid memories of frequent battles between Mary and my father.
He did not understand why Mary spent so much time primping in
the first-floor bathroom that she shared with my parents.
3
End of inserted material.
^Professor Pigford added the bracketed material during his review of
the draft transcript.
Robert and I were lucky to have the upper floor to ourselves.
It was freezing in the winter and sweltering in the summer, but
we had our own bathroom.
It is strange to me, but a great joy, that Mary and I have
finally become close friends after we have grown up, even though
we seemed to have had little interest in each other during those
early years. The same happened between me and Robert.]
5
Wilmsen: Oak Ridge is a place that comes up again, or will come up again.
Where did your brother work as a scientist?
Pigford: He went through college in Mississippi, at Mississippi State
College in Starkville, and from there went to graduate study at
the University of Illinois. He studied chemical engineering in
his undergraduate and graduate years and he got a master s and
Ph.D. in chemical engineering at the University of Illinois. In
graduatingthis was during the warhe took a job at the duPont
Company [E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company] in Wilmington,
Delaware, working in the research laboratory. He was working on
problems related to chemical warfare. Then after the war, he
took a teaching job at the University of Delaware and worked
there through most of his professional career. He was chairman
of the Department of Chemical Engineering. It became a very
renowned place for teaching chemical engineering.
He did leave Delaware for some period and was professor at
University of California at Berkeley in chemical engineering.
We were on the campus together at that same time. The campus
rules did not allow brothers to be professors in the same
college, I think it is, but chemical engineering at Berkeley is
in the College of Chemistry and when I came to Berkeley I was in
the College of Engineering. So we were there together as
brothers.
Wilmsen: And both with chemical engineering in your background.
Pigford: Yes, because I had majored in chemical engineering in college,
also.
Wilmsen: Yes. I want to come back to that. You mentioned the
Depression. What sort of influence, if any, did growing up
during the Depression years have on you?
Pigford: Well, I mainly remember that everybody was worried about having
enough money to live on. And my father did have a secure job.
5
End of inserted material.
He was not well paid, but he was very frugal and so the whole
atmosphere of the family was to save and to not be spendthrifts;
however, there was enough money for things that we really
needed.
[We lived in a comfortable two-story house in the city. It
was on a one-acre lot, with space for a very large vegetable
garden, my father s pride and joy.
6
He worked the garden by
himself, with essentially no help from his two sons who were far
more interested in their own pursuits. He supplied our family
with loads of fresh corn, peas, butterbeans, okra, figs, and
some watermelon, and there was enough left over to provide
vegetables for many friends and neighbors. This kept my father
healthy and happy.
The house was not insulated, so it was cold and drafty in
the winter. It did have central heating, supplied by a
hand-stoked coal furnace in the basement, a dark and dirty place
where coal was dumped from a truck through a window in the
basement. In one of his few splurges for comfort, my father had
installed an automatic coal stoker, to avoid the many late night
trips to keep the fire going. But he soon stopped using it.
While it ran off and on all night he would lie awake listening
to that machine grind up his precious coal.
When natural gas came along he did not convert to gas- fired
central heat. It seemed foolish to waste money on heating rooms
except when they were occupied. He had gas-fired space heaters
installed in the living room and in two bedrooms. And at night
we huddled around a pot-bellied stove on the unheated second
floor, where my brother and I lived. The gas heaters were not
vented to the outside, so it was not a healthy atmosphere to
live in.
There was no air conditioning to relieve the sweltering
summer heat. During the hot mid-day hours we all took naps,
waiting for the cooler late afternoons. After supper
cane-backed rocking chairs were moved outside to the lawn, where
we would sit, rock, swat mosquitos, and listen to the katydids.
Ammie and Cowa joined us, and, infrequently, one of the
neighbors.
The house was built during the First World War. There was
an outdoor shed to house a milk cow. The cow disappeared when I
was a youngster, probably moved to Uncle Herbert s farm. There
6
Professor Pigford added the bracketed material during his review of
the draft transcript.
was an outdoor laundry area where washable clothes were boiled
in a large iron pot, heated by burning wood. This was one of
the jobs for the hired black woman, Arabella, who came weekly.
Clothes lines strung all over the back lawn were usually filled
with drying clothes.
For a while there was even a tough little goat, with big
horns, who pulled a child s wagon belonging to my brother. I
was terribly afraid of that goat. He would butt me and my
sister at every opportunity. He didn t last long, because he
smelled terrible. I always wanted a dog, but my parents never
let me have one. We did have several cats, all of which I
loved. I doubt if they were admitted into the house.]
7
We didn t buy new clothes very often. I lived on hand-me-
downs for many yearsmost of my early years. But when we
needed something for school, it was available. Both my brother
and I were active in music in the high school. There the music
was devoted to the bandthe concert and marching band and my
parents bought good instruments for us. We didn t realize that
you were supposed to take music lessons and we didn t have music
lessons, but we learned music from the band leader.
[Mr. Howard Lane, the band leader, was an absolute jewel of
a teacher. 8
He once played in a circus band, before the days of
canned and amplified music. The circus band musicians were real
virtuosos. They had to play a little of everything: operatic,
symphonic, jazz, marches, hymns, et cetera. Even though he was
a clarinetist, he could play and teach every instrument in the
band. He had a remarkable sense of good music. He could make
our concert band sound like a well-rehearsed symphony orchestra.
But it was Mr. Lane who decided that I should play the
French horn. He didn t tell me that it is the most difficult of
all the instruments. My brother had been one of the star
clarinetists in the band. In a band the clarinet is the leading
soprano voice, the same role as violins in an orchestra. I
asked Mr. Lane to let me play the clarinet. He thought soberly
and said, "It s a nice instrument, but you are better suited for
the French horn. And it will save you money because the school
owns a fine instrument that you can use." There was a method in
his madness. He needed a second French horn player for a piece
that he was preparing for the annual state band contest in
7
End of inserted material.
"Professor Pigford added the bracketed material during his review of
the draft transcript.
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Hattisburg. The piece was the "Overture to Oberon", by von
Weber. It opens with a cappella French horns for two measures.
He knew that no one can be sure what notes will sound from a
French horn, or whether they will sound at all, especially if
played under pressure to perform. For safety and insurance, he
had me double with the first-chair horn player, Oscar Poole.
The solo repeats eight measures later. On the fateful day,
resplendent in our gaudy band uniforms, Mr. Lane raised his
baton, with a look of prayer and hope directed at Oscar and me.
On the opening hunting-horn solo Oscar made it, but I bobbled.
Our roles reversed on our second entrance of the solo. I was
thrilled!]
9
And to continue that thread, my father s main interest, and
I think my mother s too was in the future of their boys,
especially that they would get some kind of education that would
give them a secure job. And that they could, after getting that
education, live at home, which was the tradition in the old
South, get married and raise families. That was their main goal
in life.
Well, it didn t happen that way. My brother was a very
outstanding student at Mississippi State College and it was at
his own initiative, because he liked learning so much, that he
chose to go for higher education at the University of Illinois.
My father never had that in mind. My brother got a fellowship
to go to Illinois so it did not require any family funds, but my
father misunderstood and he concluded that my brother had such a
poor education at Mississippi that he could not get a job.
Evidently, he needed remedial training.
Oh. [laughs]
So my father grumbled and said okay. But he thought that in a
way my brother s education had been a failure. Of course later
on, he realized that it was anything but that. My brother was a
very outstanding individual.
So when I came along, they were determined not to make the
same mistake for me that they did with him, and so they asked
around and found that the best engineering school in the South
was at Georgia Tech. So they scraped and gave me enough money
to go to Georgia Tech with the expectation that engineering was
a pathway to a good job: I d come home and be an engineer. I
helped pay expenses by tennis and band scholarships and from
part-time work, including building cabinets to house instruments
9
End of inserted material.
10
for the physics department,
and cabinet making.
I have always loved fine carpentry
But my parents made a fundamental mistake in their planning
for my future. In this town there was only one engineering job
and that was the civil engineer who took care of the city water
distribution system. Neither my brother nor I had studied civil
engineering, so it was inevitable that my parents were going to
be disappointed. But that s how I got to go to Georgia Tech,
which was a far better school than Mississippi State College,
and then followed the pathway that had been set by my brother,
although I didn t feel that I was copying him.
Then I elected to choose graduate study, and went to the
best place, in Massachusetts, MIT. My father then roughly
concluded that he had another mistake on his hands, and he gave
up. [laughter] But we didn t require any more family funds
from him because when you study engineering and go to good
schools, you get your way paid completely as a graduate student.
That s part of the family setting that began to mold my
career.
Wilmsen: Were there any particular books or you mentioned music was
importanthow about books that had an influence on you while
you were growing up? Or sports, art, things of that nature?
Pigford: Yes, books. I read a lot, but it was mainly Reader s Digest.
which was what my mother read. I don t think my father read
very much. I never got much into the classics during the
growing up period. I m sure I read some because they taught
some good English courses in high school.
Sports. I departed from the family mold by going into
sports. My brother was never into sports, and I don t think my
father felt it was anything but a waste of time. But probably
because my brother had excelled in high school and I was under
his shadow, which I resented, I kept seeking ways of branching
out, and I got into tennis. One of the reasons is that, typical
of the small towns in the South, the way to get real esteem from
your colleagues, your peers, and others, is to play football.
And it really was true. I tried that, but I was too thin to
play very well and I got hurt in sand lot football. So both the
football coach and my parents decided that was not for me. And
then I was lucky. I had been dabbling at tennis in some
neighborhood courts and then a new history professor was hired
at the school, the high school. He also was to be in charge of
the school tennis team and he didn t like the look of the
juniors and seniors who were the tennis team. So he elected to
11
pick out three kids who were just entering junior high and teach
them for years, and eventually they would become his tennis
team. I was one of those three.
I hadn t really wanted to spend all that time on it, but I
got free tennis balls and they were pretty expensive otherwise.
He would work us out in the gymnasium, just learning to stroke,
every day throughout the school year. We didn t get to play
very much, but we learned some of the fundamentals of tennis and
finally became the tennis team for the high school.
That didn t get me a lot of points among my peers because
tennis was considered to be a sissy game. But it was still
branching out, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I enjoyed the
competition, and I continued and played tennis at Georgia Tech
when I went there, on the college team, although that was
somewhat weak because this was during the war and there wasn t
enough money and gasoline to take trips much away from home to
play other schools. I think the NCAA was not even running
during the war years, if my memory is correct.
[Question: How did you become involved in woodwork? 10
Pigford: I seem to have been born with a penchant for drawing and for
making things. But I got of to a bad start. When I was about
five or six years old, my parents gave me a child s tool box,
including a hammer and a little saw. With a gleam in my eye I
undertook my first project. Mother had complained about the
coffee table rocking instead of resting squarely on the floor.
When no one was watching, I proceeded to level the table by
sawing off a bit at the end of the longest leg. When that
didn t work, I kept at it. Soon the coffee table was an inch or
so closer to the floor, and it still rocked. I then pasted some
cardboard at the end of some of the legs, and it worked better.
My mother was not happy.
This did not discourage me. I found some scrap lumber and
made a workbench, which I installed in what had once been the
cow shed. Then I created a safe haven where a little boy could
be alone and imagine all sorts of glorious adventures. It was a
tree house, nestled in a large sweet-gum tree well removed from
our house. It had a rainproof cabin, with a little pot-bellied
stove for heating and for cooking. The first branches of the
tree were too high to reach from the ground without the rope
ladder that I would pull up after me when retreating into the
"Professor Pigford added the bracketed material during his review of
the draft transcript.
12
cabin. I made tiny fishhooks to catch little "shiners" from a
creek behind the Magnolia Cemetery, not far from our home. They
made a delicious lunch of fried fish. I once collected a few of
these beautiful live shiners in a bucket and proudly presented
them to Emma Gene, with whom I was having a short-lived romance.
She didn t seem to know what to do with them.
After the collapse of the Emma Gene romance, I retreated
into what was then the man s world of woodworking, by enrolling
in the junior-high school s course in manual training. The
instructors, Mr. Thigpen and Mr. Morris, were superb. They
taught us the value of hand tools and how to make mortise-and-
tenon joints. My crowning achievement was an inlaid cedar
chest, now owned by my daughter Cindy.
My enthusiasm must have impressed the instructors. The
local Sears Roebuck store sold good workshop tools. They asked
Mr. Thigpen to nominate some student who could display the use
of those tools during the Christmas holidays. He nominated me.
I proudly went for the interview, which turned into tragedy
because I was too young to be employed at Sears. I wept
bitterly. But I showed them. I bought a little motor-driven
table saw and set up a woodworking business in the old cow shed.
My junior high science teacher told me that his biology class
needed some glass-covered specimen boxes for the student s
insect collection. He sketched one, which I copied and got the
contract. For thirty-five cents a box I constructed about
twenty boxes from white pine salvaged from used apple crates
donated by the local grocery store. Each box had a sliding
glass lid that slid into a groove machined into the wood. The
seven dollars was all profit, the most money I had ever seen.
Then I found a design for a cutting board sawed into the outline
of a pig, with his curly tail serving as a finger hole. I
peddled kitchen cutting boards to the neighbors, especially
those who received my father s bountiful summer produce. I sold
a few, but I had to buy a cheap jig saw to cut the curves. It
must have cost about five dollars, so I may not have broken even
on cutting boards. Some of the neighbors gave me jobs
refinishing their furniture. I had learned to make a fine hand-
rubbed varnish finish (a finish that I no longer like, having
learned the virtures of tung oil finishes.)
I soon concluded that I wanted to be a professional cabinet
maker for the rest of my life. My father, with his customary
patience, warned that there is little outlet for fine cabinet
work in Meridian. He encouraged it as a hobby, but suggested a
profession with greater potential income, such as engineering.
My father had already experienced my fascination with unusual
careers. Once the tennis stars Fred Perry and Ellsworth Vines
13
played a professional exhibition match in our school gymnasium.
I was a ball boy. They had such beautiful tennis strokes and
looked so suave and elegant in their white tennis outfits, with
cable-knit sweaters and long white- flannel pants, that I decided
then to pursue tennis as a career, even though it was
financially unrewarding to even the top professionals in those
years. Our tennis coach suggested that it would be a long hard
road for me to reach Perry s skill, even as an amateur. Then,
after playing the french horn solo in Rossini s "Overture to
William Tell", the "Hi-Yo Silver!" passage, at the regional band
contest in Little Rock, Arkansas, I decided that music was to be
my future career. Again, my father was gentle and kind but
warned that few professional musicians in the South ever rise to
fame and fortune. Our band leader echoed that advice. It was
beter to follow tennis and music as hobbies, to be enjoyed
through life without the struggle of feeding a family. For me
it was good advice. Fortunately, I was able to pursue
woodworking, tennis, and music through much of the college years
and even now.
Question: What other jobs did you have before going to college?
Pigford: For two summers I got the job of managing the city s public
tennis courts. It was hard work to wet, scrape, and roll the
clay courts every morning and lay new white lines with slaked-
lime powder. From the previous manager I inherited equipment to
string tennis racquets. I learned the hard way, by nearly
ruining the first racquet brought to me for stringing. It was a
fine T.A. Davis laminated frame from Australia, brought to me by
an unsuspecting player who asked how much tension I could put on
the strings. Having had no experience, I quoted the highest
number on my tension gauge, which was eighty pounds. He agreed.
That turned out to be an excessive tension, too high for the new
laminated racquets. Holding my breath, I strung to eighty
pounds and was admiring my work when the frame slowly deformed
from its lovely oval shape to an ugly ovate shape cocked well
off center. Improvising, I fastened the racquet into a racket
press, doused it with steam from my coffee pot, and wedged the
frame back into a normal oval. The next day my unsuspecting
customer came for the racquet, admired its shape ad especially
the high-pitched ping of high tension, and gladly paid. The
next day he returned with a sad face. "Look what I have done to
your fine work," he moaned. The racquet had returned to its
ugly ovate shape. I reassured him that sometimes it happens at
high tension and that I would be glad to restring at a lower
tension if he liked. He was so happy and relieved. I never
again strung at eighty pounds.
14
During a few months I had a part-time job measuring cotton
acreage from aerial photographs of farms, a step in the national
program to help the depression economy by reducing cotton
acreage. This would reduce the supply of cotton and maintain
the price. The federal government would pay farmers according
to the acreage that was being plowed up. My teacher, Mr.
Thigpen, had recommended me for the job because I was good at
reading fine scales on measuring instruments. I never believed
in plowing up good cotton crops, but 1 was paid thirty-five
cents per hour to make the measurements, the standard federal
pay at that time. I began to suspect that letting the farmers
react to supply, demand, and price might have been healthier.
My father agreed; he was a bitter antagonist to such programs
brought about by President Franklin D. Roosevelt s New Deal.
Another part-time job was installing new bindings on books.
A high school classmate and I had read how to restitch and bind
used books. The public schools did not supply textbooks. We
got the contract to rebind the school books owned by the local
orphanage. We used artsy cloth covers with leather trim. Soon
one could see our refurbished books on many student desks
throughout the public school. This was better pay than
measuring cotton lands.
The worst job was a few weekends driving cattle and hogs in
the local stockyards, moving them from one holding pen to
another. It was the filthiest job I ever had. Clean work is
more appealing.
One of the most boring jobs was lifeguarding at the city
municipal pool during the first summer vacation after entering
college. I had already passed the swimming and life-saving
requirements. My job was to sit on one of the lifeguard towers
and watch for any one in trouble. There were only a few
instances, other than rowdy play. A few times I had to haul
people out of the water, and twice artificial respiration was
required. The greatest challenge was to ward off the searing
midday heat. But I was already accustomed, from earlier summers
spent managing the tennis courts. Happiest was the end of the
day, when we closed the pool and sluiced down the paving and
changing rooms with fire hoses. But it was not at all like the
exotic life portrayed in TV movies with alluring female
lifeguards. Our lifeguards were all male, and there were no
bikinis.] 11
Wilmsen: Now was religion an important factor in your upbringing?
H End of inserted material.
15
Pigford: It was supposed to be. My mother was very religious and my
father went along with it. And they insisted, really, that I
get involved in it, going to Sunday school every Sunday and
going to church. I didn t like it very much. I considered it
boring, but I went along with it.
I don t think I did justice to the religion. It was
Methodist. So it was there, and I still continued to go to
church. It was really when I went to college that I didn t have
to go every week. I would go occasionally. And even during
college I got involved a little in the church groups but not
much.
Wilmsen: Okay. And so at Georgia Tech you studied engineering.
Pigford: Chemical engineering, yes.
Wilmsen: And you were saying that there were some frustrations that led
you to go into chemical engineering?
Pigford: Well, actually that created frustrations because my brother had
studied that and he was superb academically, and I often felt I
made a mistake by going into the same field. But I liked
chemistry and I liked physics, and that led into chemical
engineering, and I ve never regretted that. I could have chosen
physics if I d grown up in the north. In the South, it was not
considered to be much of a career for pure physicists unless you
wanted to teach physics. And I had no interest in becoming a
teacher. So I was happy to be an engineerchemical
engineering.
A Temporary Deferment from the Military at MIT
Wilmsen;
Pigford:
Then you finished at Georgia Tech and went to MIT.
to decide to go to MIT?
What led you
Well, at Georgia Tech I had learned that it is good to make good
grades. That began to give me some peer respect. And then
along the way I learned to my surprise that it was fun to learn.
I had done well in high school, but I was not the top of the
high school class. But it was a revelation that just learning
was fun. I wanted to learn everything possible. I graduated in
1943 at the top of my class, much to my surprise. So I asked
the professors, "Where s the best place in the world to go to
graduate school for engineering?" And they said MIT, so I
applied there and got accepted. And I got a financial support;
16
I didn t have to pay tuition,
That s why I went to MIT.
and they paid my living expenses.
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Another reason: this was during the war years. I graduated
from Georgia Tech in 1943, and during my undergraduate time, I
got a deferment from going into the military because it was
considered that the country needed engineering graduates for the
war effort, without specifying you had to be in the military or
anything like that.
But the deferments were getting harder and harder. There
was more pressure that at my age, which was the early twenties,
I should go into the military or go into work for defense
operation in some way. So when I arrived at MIT, the department
chairman told me that the pressure was getting difficult and he
was not sure that my deferment would be continued. So to be
sure that I got deferred, instead of being just a plain graduate
student, he gave me an assignment as an instructor, which was an
unexpected elevation in rank. I could be a graduate student at
the same time, and I could be an instructor of a class of army
students there for the chemical warfare service. And that
allowed me to continue my graduate studies. I was glad to
accept the national policy that students studying and teaching
in fields related to war technology should be allowed to
continue, to be ready when called to national needs.
Was the chair Manson Benedict at that time?
No, Manson Benedict was working in the war effort at Oak Ridge
at that time. I didn t know him, then.
Oh, okay. Who was the chair?
The chair was Professor Warren K. Lewis, who had studied
chemistry in Germany which, during the early 1900s, was the
place to study chemistry. He really is the one who initiated
the profession of chemical engineering when he came back from
Germany, combining some mechanical engineering with chemistry.
He had formed that department at MIT which was really world
renowned.
I did have a problem continuing with that first teaching
job, which may be somewhat amusing. I d come up from the South
and I d never been in the north before, and of course I had a
very deep Southern accent. I knew I had it, but I didn t
realize how difficult it was for people who d grown up elsewhere
to understand what I was saying. At my first class at MIT, I
was so proud to be instructor. I wrote my name on the board
like you re supposed to, and the name of the course and the
17
units. I had planned for the first lecture to be on the subject
of ion exchange. It s a technique you use in purifying water- -
water softeningand so I said, "Gentlemen, today s subject is
ion exchange." And in the South you pronounce the vowels from
the back of your throat and so even today to say a hard I, I
have to consciously push my mouth much harder to start it.
Well, they didn t understand this word "ahn", and they raised
their hand, and asked, "You mean, iron?" And I said, "No, it s
ahns, ahns." And they looked perplexed, clutching their heads,
and worried. So finally I wrote the word on the board, I-O-N,
and they were happy.
We got along all right, but of course that problem came up
so frequently. 1 had to spend so much time understanding their
problem and then writing the correct spelling on the board that
we were all getting far behind. And they had to complete the
syllabus for the course, otherwise they had to go to the front
line, so they sent an emissary to the department chairman and
said, this instructor is a nice guy, but we spend so much time
learning how to pronounceor what he means when he pronounces--
that we re not going to survive.
And he called me in and said, "Son, you have a problem." He
was from southern Delaware and considered himself to be a
Southerner, and he arranged for me to take lessons in diction.
So every evening I had a tutor who normally teaches English to
foreign immigrants who would teach me how to pronounce.
I managed to survive that course, but in the spring I didn t
teach a course; Professor Lewis gave me instead a research job
working on the techniques for preparing penicillin, which had
just come to this country from England and had an enormous
impact on the war effort. Another professor took me over and
told me his ideas on how to prepare it in a practical way so it
could be a nice, readily dissolved solid that could go into a
hypodermic needle. And that was fun, but it was not enough to
get me continued deferment.
A Choice of Wartime Service, and Influence of World War II on
Career
Pigford: The department chairman told me I should go in and take a job at
some place down in Tennessee called Oak Ridge, and he was not
allowed to tell me what it was, or else I should go into the
military.
18
And it wasn t so bad. Having a bachelor s degree in
engineering, I could immediately become an officer and be
assigned to the higher levels of technical management of the
radar programs for the navy, and I took that. I wasn t about to
go to some place in Tennessee. I was so happy to be out of the
South, anyway. I didn t want to go back. In fact, I never
wanted to go back.
Wilmsen: Why didn t you want to go back to the South?
Pigford: Well, the whole growing up experience in a little town where the
only respect you get was from playing football and that kind of
thing, and similar thingsyou get respect by how much you can
drink. And I came from a teetollaling family in those days. I
never felt comfortable about the human interactions in the
South, even in those days.
Wilmsen: So was it--
Pigford: I was not at all comfortable about the Civil Rights--
Wilmsen: You mean the way blacks were treated?
Pigford: Yes. It was really just another world. For example, my mother
did have enough money to hire a black person to come to wash
clothes and clean up the house. And I loved her very dearly. I
never understood--! asked my mother, "When is that lady coming
back?" I can remember the day my mother scolded me terribly for
calling a black woman a "lady". I probably got another dose of
castor oil.
Wilmsen: I see. Did service in World War II have any kind of influence
on your career plans?
Pigford: Oh, yes, it s bound to have. First, I learned a whole new
field, which was radar. And I was in a group that was supposed
to be at the top of the heap to do research. I also supervised
training of enlisted men to operate radars and to maintain them
and so forth, and so I learned an entirely new field which I had
not studied, which was a combination of physics and electronics.
And then I was on a ship for part of the time, serving on a
flagship. And I found that to be a very easy and nice life.
Fortunately this was just after the armistice, so I didn t have
to worry about getting shot at. During the first of it, I went
to schools, Princeton and MIT to get more and more specialized
training in radar. And I considered for a while joining the
regular navy as a career, but I realized then that I would miss
the learning because you don t really have to learn very much in
19
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford;
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
the navy. So I began to realize that I wanted to follow a very
active life. Even going to MIT, I wasn t sure how dedicated I
was to learning and the profession, but the navy made me think
about it. So when I got back to MIT after discharge in 1945 I
really got into it. I was made an instructor again to help
teach the many new people coming in on the G.I. Bill.
You mentioned that you didn t know what was going on at Oak
Ridge. Did you know anything about the Manhattan project?
That s when the
Nothing whatsoever until September of 1945.
bomb was dropped, wasn t it?
August.
August? Oh, yes, you re probably right. I read about it in the
newspapers, and I had not had enough physics that kind of
physics, nuclear physicsto even understand it. But obviously
it was astounding, and I was very impressed with what had
happened. I began to get snatches of it through articles, but I
had not really planned on going into the field; I still wanted
to stay in chemical engineering. And so it was simply like
hearing about another technical area. It was interesting but
not for me.
What aspect of chemical engineering had you been in?
Well, you see, I was still a student, even though I was an
instructor. And well, I did my doctoral dissertation related to
combustion. We called it high-output combustion. Jet engines
had just come along in aircraft at the very end of World War II,
and here I was back at MIT.
dropped in 45 or 44?
Let s see, was the Hiroshima bomb
45.
Okay, so I was back at MIT in "46, then. And so jet engines
were the hot subject and the mechanics of burning fuel at this
high combustion rate, which is enormous --nothing like you d find
on a gas stove! This was fascinating to me. And we had one of
the world s experts on that subject at MIT in chemical
engineering and so I chose to work with him, and that was what
my doctoral dissertation was on.
And who was that?
Professor Hottel.
20
An Assignment at Oak Ridge National Laboratory Leads to a Career
in Nuclear Engineering ##
Wilmsen: And how did you get interested in the nuclear field?
Pigford: Well, it was not because of any interest in the nuclear field.
But even while I was a doctoral student, the department chairman
approached mewith the permission of my dissertation professor
--and asked me if I would be interested in a job and that it
would become an assistant professor immediately, even though I
didn t have my doctoral degree.
And for years MIT s chemical engineering department had a
unique optional teaching program for graduate students. It was
called the School of Chemical Engineering Practice. MIT
established its own research laboratories at various plants
throughout the northeast and sent students theregraduate
students to work under an assistant professor who was in
residence there, and to solve new technical problems that came
up in connection with plant operations. These are problems that
the plant s research staff would normally work on, and the
plant s research staff would usually take several months, up to
a year or so, to study it, and come up with a solution. The MIT
graduate students were required to come up with a solution in
two weeks, which required very quick assessment of the problem.
That s why it required MIT s own staff and faculty in residence,
to visualize this and do it going out and constructing their
own apparatus to get a quick result.
For example, suppose you want to measure the water flow rate
through a trough, or a canal. Instead of buying an expensive
flow rate meter, you just drop a cork in one end and measure the
time it takes to come to the other, from which you can calculate
the flow rate. The plant people would never do things like
this, but we would invent quick techniques of getting a quick
estimate. Our students would invent the experimental
techniques, do the experiment, write a report and present their
results to the plant staff, but mainly to the MIT faculty. And
we all operated independent of the plant personnel. We had to
get their permission to go into the plant and do experiments.
And sometimes we frightened them a great deal.
In one of my instructor jobs I had been assigned to one of
those practice-school stations as an instructor. Well, MIT was
then following the emerging applied nuclear field in the
aftermath of World War II and their programs were quite famous
in the industry. The people running the facilities at Oak Ridge
Tennessee Union Carbide and Carbon, which was a great chemical
21
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
company- -invited MIT to set up a station, a laboratory there.
It would be a new kind of station, open to graduate sutdents in
all fields of science and engineering. MIT s motivation was to
get in on the ground floor of the new science and technology
that had peaceful applications. I was invited to be the person
in charge as assistant professor, with an instructor working
under me as an assistant. We had access to all three plants.
All of the new technology was still classified as secret,
unfortunately, so the students had to have secret clearances.
But when there, they had free access to all of the plants-
something that the plant people themselves, except maybe the
plant manager, did not have. Both MIT and the AEC felt that the
Engineering Practice School would contribute to more rapid
declassif ication and transfer of this new technology to the
private sector.
It was exciting and it was all about problems that arise in
making nuclear materials and using them. We got into separation
of isotopes, and into designing nuclear power reactors, and
running nuclear reactors. I was sent down there without any
background knowledge of what they were doing, and I had to learn
very fast to keep ahead of the students.
I was there for two years during 1950-52, and still
officially a graduate student, as well as an assistant
professor. So on the side I had to finish writing my doctoral
dissertation, and I managed to finish that in 1952.
So you got so interested in what was happening at Oak Ridge that
your dissertation was not something you really followed up then?
Well, I had to work very hard on my dissertation when I was
there .
But I mean once you completed it?
Oh, you mean the field of the dissertation.
Yes.
Yes. All I knew then was I liked being an assistant professor
and I planned to return to MIT if I could, if I was invited to,
to continue on the faculty there. And I thought I had a
reasonable chance. The system in place in those days was that
the department would hire several assistant professors and on
the average only one of them would be invited to stay on and
have tenure. And usually the assistant professors would teach
for four or five years. And it was considered to be a very
noble occupation, because of the experience, even if you didn t
22
get tenure. So when my two years at Oak Ridge were coming up, I
was expecting to go back to Cambridge, MIT, and teach chemical
engineering again.
I should point out that this station at Oak Ridge, being so
multidisciplinary, with a broad range of new physics, chemistry,
and so forth, was a laboratory for the entire Institute of
Technology at MIT, so it took students from mechanical
engineering, physics and so forth. And that was fun.
When my two-year assignment at Oak Ridge was about to
finish, MIT told me they wanted to start a graduate program in
nuclear engineering specifically, at MIT. They had already
hired a more senior person, Manson Benedict, who had a
background as a chemical engineer and physical chemist and he
would be in charge, and I would be his assistant professor. And
that was so good that I jumped at it. I don t think I did it
because of any special love for nuclear engineering, but the
challenge of really starting a new field and teaching it was the
thing that motivated me.
Solving Design Problems at Oak Ridge
Wilmsen: Now backing up to your experience at Oak Ridge, what were some
of the design problems? Were you actually involved in the
design and construction of thatwhat was it--an aqueous
homogenous nuclear reactor?
Pigford: Yes. I got involved in detail in that. It was for the emerging
program to develop commercial nuclear power. In fact, I now
remember my dates aren t right. My two years in charge of the
laboratory which we called the School of Engineering Practice,
were over at the beginning of 1952 in February. That was when I
learned that MIT wanted me to start up with Benedict nuclear
engineering at Cambridge. They knew I needed more education and
background in the field, so they arranged for me to work for six
months at one of the research laboratories at Oak Ridge then
connected with the design of a new type of nuclear power
reactor. That gave me wonderful experience. I worked there for
six months as a development engineer. During that time I could
also take some courses which were offered at Oak Ridge for plant
personnel who had not had formal instruction in the physics of
reactor design, so that enabled me to get into that in much more
detail than I had been able to in my job of supervising the
MIT s graduate laboratory there.
23
Wilmsen: Did you actually help design that reactor?
Pigford: Yes. In fact, we even got involved in it with my students in
the laboratory. My job as the director of the laboratory would
be to have many contacts throughout the plant, knowing what was
going on and where some new idea needed some quick solution, and
so one of the places was that design team. The head of the
design team would come to me and say, "Here s something that
just came up. We don t know the answer. Can you put an MIT
student team on it, research it, and give us a quick answer?"
And so to do that I had to learn enough about it to be sure that
it might be doable in a reasonable time. The plant never
thought it was doable in two weeks, but we enjoyed fooling them
and usually did, but not always. If I wanted it, we could get
an extension, but I wanted the students to work on many
different problems, so that s one reason we didn t give them
much time. And so I got them involved a little bit in the
design of the homogenous reactor, as well as in the design of
the project designing a reactor to propel a military aircraft,
which was originated at Oak Ridge. I doubt that that s
mentioned in my CV.
Wilmsen: I think it is, actually. I was going to ask you about that.
But before I do, can you give some examples of the kinds of
problems that came up where people would come and say, "Can you
put a student group to work on this particular problem?"
Pigford: All right. Well, probably the most outstanding problem was one
that just nearly scared the plant half to death.
There are three plants there. One of the plants deals with
isotope separation, originally producing enriched uranium 235 to
make bombs, but since those days it was run to make fuel for
nuclear power reactors. And so to do that, they have to make a
gaseous form of uranium called uranium hexaf luoride, UF6 , and
that is gas that s pumped along membranes where the light
isotope
235
UF6 diffuses more rapidly leaving behind the heavy
isotope that is not the desired one. And they go through those
membranes a few thousand times to finally make 93 percent
235
U.
To make UF6 gas, take uranium ore, concentrate and purify it, and
then expose it to hydrogen fluoride and fluorine gas which
reacts with the uranium to make UF6 .
Now hydrogen fluoride is somewhat similar chemically to
hydrogen chloride, which is an acid and is extremely toxic. And
they used a lot of it, and they would buy it from Mallinckrodt
Chemical Company. They would store it in one part of the plant
24
in these enormous storage tanks looking like a great big propane
cylinder that you see in some small towns. They would store the
HF as a liquid under pressure. It easily boils to make a gas.
They would draw the gas off to react with the uranium in another
part of the plant. Well, one of the most potentially dangerous
things in Oak Ridge was not from nuclear reactions, but from
chemical reactions. If there had ever developed a large leak in
that storage tank, that hydrogen fluoride would pour out as a
liquid, quickly become a light gas, and it was expected that it
could even form a toxic cloud that could move over the town
which was some twenty miles away and kill a lot of people. And
of course it could kill people in the plant.
And so they had the idea they can save lives by putting a
bed of limestone, calcium carbonate, underneath the tanks, so
that when the liquid hydrogen fluoride comes out it quickly
reacts with the calcium carbonate, making a solid calcium
fluoride which fortunately is solid, keeping the fluoride there.
It s the fluorine which is the dangerous part, and the carbonate
would decompose into carbon dioxide which is not nearly so
dangerous.
Well, they told me they needed to prove that this was safe,
and they needed to know how much of the toxic gas HF would still
escape and how far it would go as a toxic cloud because you
can t expect all of it to be combined chemically. So we
undertook a two week project to answer those questions.
First thing we did, we actually went out in a field and put
some limestone, calcium carbonate, down and poured some- -we were
wearing chemical suits with add-on breathing apparatus liquid
hydrogen fluoride on it to thus verify that this would stop the
material from becoming volatile. Instead it created a small
explosion because the heat of the reaction of the first hydrogen
fluoride would volatilize quickly the other hydrogen fluoride
even before it got to the calcium carbonate, and it was worse
than not doing anything at all. That led to our first
recommendation to the plant: "GET RID OF THE CALCIUM CARBONATE."
That was an easy first experiment, but we still had the
other part of the assignment. We took movies of the calcium
carbonate experiment, made some measurements of temperatures and
so forth, and wrote it up as a technical report. The other part
of the assignment was to calculate where the toxic gas goes if
it forms a cloud. The HF and fluorine were stored right at the
edge of the plant, and in some meteorological situations, plant
buildings were downwind from this site.
25
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Well, I consulted a meteorologist at the University of
Tennessee, and he taught me a little about how you predict the
travel of clouds of toxic materialof any kind of material-
through the air, over the ground and around buildings and so
forth. He said that when it comes to a building, it s very
complicated because just like the wind in a city, you have
little local drafts that can cause eddies and turbulence. And
he said, the only way you ll know is to take some pictures.
Well, we couldn t do that with actual HF without killing people.
So he gave us the idea of using smoke, which is a traditional
technique for meteorologists.
So the plant bought some smoke bombs for us, or maybe the
professor had some. And to take the pictures, we needed a
helicopter. I went to the plant manager. He said, sure you can
get a helicopter from someplace in Ohio, which is part of the
emergency standby air protection operation anyway, in case an
enemy plane comes. So a helicopter was dispatched, and we got a
photographer.
We told the plant manager that on a certain day we were
going to set off smoke bombs and we would have a helicopter fly
over, and he said he would inform his people. And it turned
out, the plant personnel really didn t realize what we were
doing. On the day we set off the smoke bombs, this big black
cloud went up, wafting around the plant entrances, and over it,
and they called a bloody area emergency! We had fortunately
forewarned the plant fire department, so they knew it was not a
fire. The main problem was the rest of the plant people working
in the buildings didn t know about it. Oh, we got our
photographs and wrote our report and gave them the answer,
[laughter]
Were there any of those kinds of problems that eventually became
incorporated into reactor design?
Well, that one didn t, because that s not a reactor use, but oh,
yes, sure. One was a problem on the aqueous homogenous reactor,
which is a solution of uranyl sulfate, a sulfate compound of
uranium dissolved in water. Most of the people at Oak Ridge
were chemical engineers because they re chemical- type problems,
and so they visualized this nuclear reactor as just a solution
of uranium in water going through a pipe about eight inches in
diameter. To make it into a reactor you just make a bulge in
the pipeline about four feet in diameter so there s enough
material in that volume to make a critical chain reaction. It
takes a certain amount. The hydrogen in the water would
moderate the energies of the neutrons formed in fission and make
them low in energy, which makes them very efficient as chain
26
carriers to cause further fission. And that was a wonderful
concept. Then the hot uranium solution flows very fast out into
an external heat exchange, boils some other water to make steam,
which then runs a turbine. Very attractive concept.
Wilmsen: That s the basic boiling water reactor design, isn t it?
Pigford: No it s not. The boiling water reactor is using solid fuel.
The boiling-water reactor is General Electric s commecial power
reactor. It uses the conventional type of solid fuel in contact
with boiling water coolant to extract the heat. But the aqueous
homogenous reactor would use fluid fuel, and the fuel solution
itself is pumped around. It gets hot, and it goes through a
heat exchanger.
Well, the trouble is, these things aren t as simple as they
look on paper. The uranium fission fragments are highly charged
particles moving very fast, traveling maybe ten or twenty
microns about a thousandth of an inchbefore they are stopped
by collisions with water. But in the process they decompose a
lot of water, to make hydrogen and oxygen. And this plant, this
reactor, would be generating an explosive mixture of hydrogen
and oxygen in the perfect proportions to combine chemically to
make water again, which is the most dangerous proportion. This
plant would produce enormous quantities of chemically explosive
gas. Well, I drew upon my experiments in chemical combustion on
my doctoral dissertation.
Wilmsen: Ah ha.
Pigford: See, they had the idea, which was a good one, of injecting the
fresh uranium solution tangentially along the inner edge of the
tank so it goes around in a vortex. And that vortex would cause
the gas to go inward. It is a vortex like you see when your
water flows out of the bathtub it has a hole in the center as a
result of the centrifugal force. So that gas would proceed up
that hole and then you d collect it and do something with it.
So it would no longer be explosive.
And they asked me to carry it from there: "What do we want
to do with it?" Well, designing a burner to burn hydrogen and
oxygen safely was an unusual thing because in those days people
didn t have hydrogen fuel. But I designed it based upon what
I d learned about combustion and they used it in the process and
it worked.
That had started off as a project done by my students. I
was able to define the problem and give them some references. I
carefully selected the references so they would quickly arrive
27
at the program I thought was going to be suitable, although
officially the students were supposed to generate the approach
themselves. Then when I was assigned to work full time with
that project in early "52, the Oak Ridge engineers asked me to
finish up that design for them. And I did. And I worked on a
lot of other things for them as well. So that s an example.
Wilmsen: Now that plant was closed in 1957, wasn t it?
Pigford: That project? No, how did you get 57?
Wilmsen: That was in a book by a guy named Del Sesto who did a history
about nuclear bombs and nuclear energy policy.
Pigford: I had thought it was closer to 59, but probably he s right.
Let s accept it was closed in 57.
Wilmsen: What were the reasons for it closing?
Pigford: Well, by then, the reactor design for the nuclear navy grew so
successful, showing that it was a more reliable technology,
partly because it didn t have so much hydrogen generation and
its water coolant was not nearly so corrosive as the hot uranium
solution of the aqueous homogenous reactor. Pure water is not
so bad. So the experiments in the navy had then caused the
commercial nuclear program to be slanted towards solid-fuel,
water-cooled reactors. And there were two types. One, the
water is pressurized so it s always liquid inside the reactor,
generating separate steam outside. The other is G.E. s
commercial type in which the water in the reactor is allowed to
boil and that steam goes directly to turbines. And its problem
is that it carries some radioactivity with it into the turbines,
which makes maintenance more difficult. That s one of the
problems. But the aqueous homogenous reactor was no longer
competitive.
Focusing on Civilian Applications but Working on a Nuclear
Reactor for Military Aircraft
Wilmsen: One thing 1 wanted to ask you about was in the immediate post
war years. Even until about 1954, most of the emphasis, at
least as far as government policy was concerned, was towards
military uses of atomic energy.
Pigford: Military applications attracted a lot of money and people.
28
Wilmsen: Right. So I was wondering what prompted you to continue or to
go into kind of the civilian side of things?
Pigford: Well, it was more interesting to me and not classified, although
it did have some secret parts because they had to utilize some
of the developments for the naval program. But it was clear it
was soon going to go without involving secrecy and that made a
lot of difference to me. At least you can go to professional
meetings at large societies and talk to people about what you re
doing. And in a secret program to me that would have been too
confining.
Furthermore, I like working on things that are useful to the
ordinary people and I thought this would make them electricity.
And they had to be economical and that s the important thing in
an engineer s life, is to work on something that has to be
economical.
Wilmsen: Shall we talk about the aircraft program, then?
Pigford: Yes. You know, as an aside, I was invited by Japan in, I think
it was 1996, or 95, to go there and give several lectures. And
one of them was tracing the history of important events of the
development of nuclear power. And I wrote that up in a way that
was kind of brief, and was not supposed to require very much
technical knowledge to read.
Pigford: But, I can tell you how my association with the program to
develop nuclear reactors for propelling military aircraft got
started. I was a consultant, while teaching in the new nuclear
engineering program at MIT. When I was a graduate student after
the war and working on that combustion research, a few of my
student colleagues, my peers in chemical engineering, got
involved in a summer project run by MIT to evaluate the nation s
program to develop a nuclear-propelled military aircraft. And
that s all I knew about it. They were not allowed to tell me
much about it.
But I was also always curious, what is it supposed to do?
What s the purpose? Because the jet planes were so darned good
as fighters, I couldn t imagine why you needed nuclear reactors
for that. Well, I guess I somehow figured out or was told
unofficially that the idea was we needed an aircraft that could
fly, well, halfway across the world and back without refueling,
to do surveillance and drop bombs. And of course that was the
beginning of the cold war with Russia.
29
And so that sounded interesting. I didn t get involved in
it, but when I was there at Oak Ridge as director of the school
of engineering practice it was one of the programs there. And
in those days most of the programs there were secret, partly
because it was difficult to separate the laboratory people
working on non-secret things and people working on secret
things. That s where the actual technical program to develop a
nuclear-propelled airplane originated. And if a high-
temperature nuclear power reactor could be developed to propel
an airplane, it would surely have commercial applications as a
land-based nuclear power plant to generate electricity. That s
what interested me.
And as you can see from this aqueous homogenous reactor
project, which was for commercial power, Oak Ridge people liked
to work on fluid fuel reactor systems. I think it s because the
original mission for Oak Ridge was to do chemical engineering
development and isotope separation; it wasn t supposed to be a
reactor development laboratory, but it got into it, anyway.
And so the Oak Ridge scientists had the brilliant idea of
using a fluid fuel for aircraft propulsion. They couldn t use
the aqueous homogenous concept because the reactor would need to
operate at a much higher temperature to simulate what a jet
engine could do, which operates on high temperature combustion.
The aqueous homogenous would require enormous pressure vessels- -
very thick walls--to operate at such high temperatures because
of the volatility of water. But if you used molten salt--say,
for example, like molten sodium chloride, that can be liquid at
a pretty high temperature without requiring much pressure to
contain it. And that s the basic idea. So their chemists
worked out a mixture of fluorides of uranium and beryllium and
zirconium such that the mixture had a lower melting point than
any one of the individual components, which is typical in
solids. Mixed solids frequently melt at lower temperatures.
As an aside, in New England they put some kind of salt on
the streets in the winter to actually melt the ice because it
forms a low temperature melting solid. And I forget the name of
the salt calcium chloride, maybe. Well, back to this. Sorry.
And so this molten salt mixture was to be pumped through
pipes and get hot at a bulge in the pipelinethat s the
concept- -when it becomes critical. And then you pump it out and
pipe the hot molten salt out to radiators in the wings, and they
heat the air--just like a combustion chamber would in the jet
engine. The air gets very hot and expands quickly and gives you
a jet-engine propulsion. It s got to be very hot and so the
materials to contain that mixture were just unknown, and the
30
material problems were imposing. But they developed very
special alloys that had never been developed before. Some were
made of niobium, which is a very expensive high-temperature
alloy. And the molten salt would come out of the critical part
of the reactor in little tiny tubes, thousands of them, which
looked like spaghetti carrying molten salt, hot molten salt, out
to the wing engines.
On paper it looked great. It was the kind of reactor that I
say is typical of being designed by a physicist who has no
experience in engineering. It had worlds of engineering
problems and they were all fun to work on. The whole thing was
so difficult. They couldn t afford to put much weight into
shielding the reactor, because this is an airplane! And so they
used very expensive shielding made out of mixtures of iron and
special compounds of hydrogen, and finally ended up putting the
shielding only like a big umbrella separating the pilot and the
reactor. This means if you re on the ground and need
maintenance, you can t get near the side of the airplane, it s
not shielded. And even if the engine is shut down, the intense
radioactivity in the fission products would still recquire
shielding. And even then, they couldn t get enough shielding to
reduce the radiation levels reaching the pilots to normal
tolerance levels. Finally they had to restrict the pilots to
people over a certain age, so that they re not child-bearing.
It was fanciful and rather crazy.
And the amount of money spent by the government in that
project was mind-boggling. I was working on detailed problems
and I didn t have to get much into policy on it, but I continued
associating with that project when I went back to Cambridge to
teach and study nuclear engineering with Benedict.
And one of my first consulting jobs was to consult for Pratt
and Whitney Aircraft [Corporation] in Hartford, Connecticut,
which was one of the great and still is--jet engine builders in
the world. And they were the main contractor to develop and
build the engine system. They weren t supposed to develop the
reactor, but they had to work on reactor problems to try to
minimize weight and things like that. But by that time I had
developed more of what I felt were intuitive feelings of what s
worth working on, and I kept discussing this with the project s
engineers and asking them, "wouldn t you solve a lot of problems
by going to solid fuels so that your coolant is not so
radioactive and corrosive?" That was an enormous departure from
the design that Oak Ridge had developed.
I managed to, at least I think I helped, get started a small
separate project at Hartford on such a concept. And they worked
31
on it, it began to look better, and I even went to the
corporation CEO a few times to get his support. There were just
a myriad of fascinating problems on either concept, but there s
a concept I helped get started.
It all collapsed, fortunately. And that must have been in
the mid-sixties. That project went too long without being
shaken down. Did you learn from your book the date it was shut
down, the nuclear propelled aircraft?
Wilmsen: I think it was 63, but I don t remember.
Pigford: 1 think it s not that early, but it may be. You see, the
trouble is the air force was the one who made the decisions and
managed the money, and it fell in love with almost anything
nuclear. And finally what shut it down was the realization that
we had an alternative: we had missiles--ICBM s--that could
finally fly all the way to Russia and hit a target. You didn t
need the nuclear-propelled airplane, which was a low-speed
aircraft anyway. It would probably have been shot down easily.
Wilmsen: Were they concerned about nuclear contaminants escaping into the
environment in the event of the plane being shot down or an
accident or something like that?
Pigford: Oh yes. They didn t get very far into that evaluation of
safety. Frankly I thought just the fact that they were so near
the threshold of danger in the planning, like the selection of
pilots, like ground maintenance, and so forth that they should
have realized that it was a very iffy thing in the first place.
And I guess that one helped me feel that here there was a great
need for more systems engineering in the whole nuclear program,
especially the kind of engineering that reassesses the original
purpose of the project, the environmental consequences, and the
alternatives .
Designing the nuclear bombs, which I know little about,
does not require as much engineering. In fact, I d say it seems
very little. The plutonium is the size of a grapefruit and you
can spend all the amount of money you care to on machining to a
millionth of an inch tolerancethat cost seems to make little
difference. This requires a good special lathe and milling
machine, that s allplus earful machining of all the other
parts to make the device work. No problems of heat extraction,
corrosion, et cetera.
Tom s mother, Zula Harrington, ca. 1895.
,
RS
Tom s aunt Alma, uncle Herbert, mother Zula, ca. 1905.
Lamar and Zula Pigford, 1913.
1963
Tom and siblings Mary and Robert, 1923.
Tom, ca. 1926.
Family gathering (Tom at lower left), ca. 1926.
Tom, 1944,
A ;OUTERNERS FLY COLORS"
2 M. t, T.
Students,
Under In
quiry, Blame Spiteful Yankee
CAMBRIDGE, Mass., April 2 U&
An emblem described as "a bat
tle flag of the Confederacy" flies
from the room of two; Southerners
r-but for how long no bne can say.
Thon^is Pigford .of Meridian,
jMiss., Ind Frank Weents of Bir
mingham, Ala,, students at the
Massachusetts Institute 6f Tech
nology* said last night "some dam
Yankee" had complained to the
District Attorney. -
District Attorney George^ B.
Thompson said that if he" found
anything illegal he would turn pie
matter over to the United States
A-ttorney. i
The students said the flag hac^
been flying"
unnoticed from their
graduate house window for a
month until someone apparently
mistook it for a foreign emblem.
Pigford said the flag was pur
chased from a New York manu
facturer "who has been ^selling
them to Southerners wno grow
lonely in the North." -
A youthful caper, as reported in the Boston
Globe, 1947.
Tom s mother and father, ca. 1958.
Herbert Harrington, Tom s uncle.
32
II THE EARLY DAYS OF NUCLEAR POWER: THE DEPARTMENT AT MIT, WORK
IN INDUSTRY, AND GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS IN NUCLEAR POWER
Starting the Department of Nuclear Engineering Education at MIT
Wilmsen: Back to helping start the department of nuclear engineering
education at MIT. You described a little bit about how you got
involved in it. How did you go about starting the department?
Pigford: Well, administratively MIT started it, as I told you, by giving
the job to these two professors: I, the assistant professor, and
Manson Benedict, my senior professor. And we had authority to
create an academic program at the graduate level then. And we
described the content like you would in any new academic program,
covering physics of nuclear reactions in reactors, nuclear
reactor design, covering the entire fuel cycle because both of us
had worked in the entire fuel cycle. And that s what we mean, is
every operation that has to be carried out to make the whole
system work as a, say, commercial power generator. Isotope
separation: that s what my senior professor had worked on during
the war; chemical separation of fuel after it s been used, which
I worked on at Oak Ridge and designing reactors, which I had
gotten into more than my senior professor. We later added waste
disposal as an emerging technical challenge, though once said to
be a trivial technical problem. We should have added it sooner.
The fuel cycle, though, originated that way.
And you see, starting from the Oak Ridge engineering
practice school experience, I got involved in every part of the
whole operation because originally that was our purpose --to
involve our students in that. And to involve them, I had to get
involved.
So I tried to institute that. Together we specialized in
reactor design and the whole fuel cycle, because we both were
chemical engineers. The problem was how to get students, and how
to get instructional material developed. That is, how to learn
33
it enough so we could teach it. Clearly my boss could teach
isotope separation without a problem: he was the international
expert, but that was just one of the subjects. To get students,
we learned that Admiral Hyman Rickover- -you ve heard of that
name?
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: Had already started his naval nuclear propulsion program and he
was a real bug on education at all levels of his people in the
service. He d already arranged to send some of his officers up
to MIT to take a master s degree in physics, and he heard about
nuclear engineering and so he offered to send several to us to
study nuclear engineering. And those were our first graduate
students, together with a little handful of civilians.
Developing Instructional Materials
Pigford: Instructional material. There weren t any textbooks. There were
very few unclassified technical reports, but already my boss and
I had secret clearances. And the Atomic Energy Commission [AEC]
was very supportive of our effort and so it gave us access to an
enormous range of secret material. Few people have had it to
that extent. I also identified various experts for help on parts
of it. There was a physics professor at MIT who knew in detail
the physics part of designing reactors, how to make it critical
and so forth. Then the AEC set up a system by which we could
identify various parts of those reports and nominate them for
security declassification, frequently by obliterating certain
words or something like that. And that system worked. There it
was agonizing because the hardest part was for us to digest,
learn, and teach this flood of new technial information. I would
get the declassified material just days before our next lecture,
have to learn it, and give the next lecture. And that was fun.
Wilmsen: Was that when David Lilienthal was the director of the Atomic
Energy Commission?
Pigford: He was the chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission. He left
during that period followed by maybe Lewis Strauss, or maybe
there was someone in between there. I never did deal with
Lilienthal. Not before we started the nuclear engineering
program, I m pretty sure. I m sure that my boss, Benedict, dealt
with him because for his own training he spent two years working
at AEC in Washington, officially setting up techniques to
evaluate the various AEC projectsmathematical techniques like
34
an independent check on their performance and things like that .
So he must have worked with Lilienthal. And he did during the
war, too. So that s how we got started.
The students, the navy students, were all older than I was,
and I think smarter, but they were there to learn. We learned
together. And then master s theses: some were under my
supervision, some under Benedict s supervision.
Wilmsen: Was that the first nuclear engineering program in the country?
Pigford: No. North Carolina State College had the first one, and it
started, I think, at the undergraduate level. Two people started
it and they had come from Oak Ridge.
The University of Michigan may have started one before we
did at MIT. It wasn t much before. In that case, they did not
staff it with people who had much contact with the field, and
that was a problem.
Being Encouraged to Consult
Pigford: The other thing MIT did, which was very important, besides using
its influence to get it started with AEC and Rickover s help in
this waywhich no other school didwas to encourage us to
consult. And quite different from many, many universities and
even other engineering schools, MIT s policy is that each of its
faculty should consult. It s not so that they can augment their
salary, although frequently they do, but MIT feels that the right
kind of consulting exposes you to confronting new ideas and
having to develop that kind of skill, which is an innovative
technical skill, to come up with useful and quick answers--
sometimes not so quick if you continue as a consultant. And
also, being there, you relate to the needs of your industry which
in engineering is your primary customer for your students.
Engineering schools that don t do that really get left
behind. Berkeley does that, but not enough. Stanford does it
more than Berkeley- -not as much as MIT. And of course, it gets
abused sometimes. The field is full of MIT professors who have
started their own companies to enhance their consulting, and then
let it detract from their work at MIT. Some of them have done
that and also created large laboratories at MIT. An example of a
famous professor at MIT who served well academia and industry is
Harold Edgerton, who developed the strobe lights in photography.
35
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
There s a private company, Edgerton, Germeshausen, and
Greer, also known as EGG which bears his name and is a major
success story, but he was extremely careful never to slight his
work at MIT.
I started up a company once because I was getting so many
consulting requests. I couldn t take them, so I thoughtby this
time we had a couple of younger professors in the department who
didn t have as much contact--! 11 start a company and I ll get
those requests and I ll help my colleagues do the work. But it
wasn t any fun at all. I spent too much time managing the
company and I found it more interesting to do the technical work.
Oh. Was that when you were still at MIT?
Yes. And I could have made a lot of money that way, but it
wasn t fun. So we did one job and then I, by mutual agreement,
quit.
Who were the principle people at the Atomic Energy Commission
that you dealt with when you were setting up the department at
MIT?
Pigford: Larry Hafstad was director of reactor development. And then
Lewis Strauss--! didn t have much contact with him, but Benedict
didwas the chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission. Willard
Libby was on loan, on leave from UCLA. He s a famous chemist and
he was a member of the Atomic Energy Commission. Then through
the years there emerged other names: Kenneth Davis, who had been
a chemical engineer working with Standard Oil of California which
is now Chevron. And he had gone to work for the Atomic Energy
Commission as head of reactor development following Hafstad, I
think it was. And I could rattle off dozens of names, but those
are samples.
Wilmsen: Were they working with other schools in developing similar
departments, or just MIT?
Pigford: Not in the way that I ve described they worked with us. They
didn t work with us like that for very long because once we got
enough knowledge ourselves, we could then expand that and we
started writing our own course material. In fact we were writing
about a dozen textbooks at one time and only one of them ever got
published. We just found it took too much time just to keep
learning and teaching new material. Other schools did not have
that help in getting started out.
36
Governement Assistance in Building Nuclear Research Reactors
Pigford: There was another kind of help that was provided by the
government, and provided by money from the Atomic Energy
Commission, but administered by the National Science Foundation.
They had the idea in those days that every school needed a
nuclear research reactor, which I think was dumb, but we knew we
wanted one at MIT. The funds administered through the National
Science Foundation were offered quite readily--too much so in my
viewto schools throughout the country. And it s hard,
especially for a small school, to turn something like that down.
For example, Reed College in Portland, Oregon. Reed is not into
high tech engineering. They don t teach engineering there. The
physics department there got a small reactor. It has been a pain
in the neck. Operating a small reactor is highly regulated for
safety, as it should be, by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission,
and Reed thought a physics professor could do that. Well,
physics professors just by nature aren t interested in such
mundane work. Experiments with reactors is simply old physics to
physics people.
Stanford got a reactor. Stanford should have known better.
It s a first rate engineering school, but they learned sooner
than most people that it wasn t for them. They had never
committed the resources to faculty and so forth for a solid
department like MIT did and as we later did at Berkeley. They
got rid of that reactor after a few years, which was good sense
for them. And it never was a big enough reactor to do much
research.
Wilmsen: How can a department make good use of a reactor?
Pigford: Well, first as training. It s nice to have the students see a
chain reaction, which is a rare thing. And you can build a
simple reactor that undergoes a chain reaction. They can pull
the control rods out, and see the counter going up, and that s
pretty exciting. But that s demonstration. We don t even do
many demonstrations like that in a physics laboratory. For
example, when I once organized and taught an undergraduate
applied physics lab at Berkeley, I assigned the students the task
of designing a simple way of measuring interaction at applied
electromagnet and electrostatic fields with the quantum spins of
nucleii, known as "nuclear magnetic resonance." The students
studied the theory, designed and constructed the equipment from
readily available crude parts, and measured the resonance
conditions of spin flipping of hydrogen nucleii. This is a far
more educational approach than taking them to a hospital lab and
watching the operator run a "magnetic resonance imaging" machine,
37
known as an "MRI". And that s where you learn things, not by
running a product that somebody has made and commercialized.
But the teaching reactors offered by the government were
already designed and built by someone else. That s help that the
government supplied to lots of schools throughout the country.
The reactor at Berkeley which we started working on in either
1962 or 63, I think, cost $800,000 which was a lot of money in
those days. The one at MIT cost about that much. MIT s is still
running. Ours is not running. I led the program to shut ours
down in the late 1980s. It was no longer used to generate
nuclear radiation for student-faculty research, although still
actively used by several governement contractors. We simply
could no longer justify tying up so much expensive on-campus
space dedicated to academically related research.
##
Pigford: But a large number of schools throughout the country did follow
the lead and in one way or another established nuclear
engineering at the graduate, or usually undergraduate level. But
a lot of those schools don t have strong graduate programs in
engineering. That s what it boils down to. Those schools that
do good graduate work in engineering frequently have nuclear
engineering graduate programs.
Wilmsen: How did what I referred to before, about most of the money in
personnel going into the military side of nuclear energy or
nuclear applications, effect your developing the department at
MIT?
Pigford: Well, it gave us consulting jobs and exposure to many new and
challenging technical problems that arise in nuclear reactor
applications. I consulted on the nuclear aircraft program. I
consulted during the early part of the cold war. The government
built the Savannah River Plant to produce more plutonium for
bombs. Very big plant. This was a newer version of the Hanford
plant that had been built in Washington during the war. And MIT
urged me to do it. In fact, they arranged the very special
consulting job to consult there. And I got wonderful technical
experience. I consulted, also, for an engineering company in New
York, Foster Wheeler, that was working entirely on the commercial
applications. These places would look for our students to hire
them. Most of our graduates were employed in the commercial
nuclear field. I did not consult on the design and construction
of nuclear weapons.
I would have been very unhappy if the only job opportunities
had been in the military work. In fact, I would have preferred
38
that most of them be in the private sector, and they were,
because the private sector was growing very fast all through the
1960s and 1970s.
The Savannah River Plant
Wilmsen: Now the plant in Savannah that you mentioned, was that
principally a reprocessing plant?
Pigford: It contained a very large reprocessing plant. Its job was to
make plutonium for bombs, so first they had to build some nuclear
reactors where they convert uranium 238 into plutonium. That s a
solid fuel, which is uranium metal clad with aluminum, cooled
with heavy water. Heavy water is water made from a rare isotope
of hydrogen. In nature there is only one part of heavy hydrogen
[deuterium] in 7000 parts normal hydrogen. Heavy water absorbs
only a few neutrons, so you can use it to cool a reactor, and use
the extra neutrons to make a lot more plutonium. So they had to
build a heavy water production plant, with isotope separation.
Beautiful technical problem. A brand new design. After that,
the fuel is removed from the reactors, dissolved in acid, and the
plutonium is separated, purified, and sent to plants in other
locations in Texas or Colorado to be made into metal and made
into bomb parts. The heavy water separation and reactor
technology later proved to be important to commercial nuclear
power, particularly in Canada.
Wilmsen: And at the Savannah River plant, is that where they developed the
Purex process?
Pigford: No, Purex was actually developed at the Hanford plant and at Oak
Ridge. During the war they used a crude process where they
simply scaled up a laboratory separation that Glenn Seaborg had
developed at Oilman Hall. And it did the job: it made plutonium,
but it made an awful lot of terrible radioactive waste, just
enormous quantities. And we still have the legacy from that.
Well, after the war, General Electric came in to operate
Hanford. Du Pont built those plants during the war, but it
wanted out after the war. I should point out that du Pont
finally agreed to develop Savannah River after arm twisting from
the government. They charged one dollar a year to do it. They
didn t want to have any more connection with the military
program, but they did it under urging that it was an obligation
to the national security. General Electric came in and took over
39
that part of the Hanford operations dealing with chemical
separation and they installed a Purex process.
The original chemistry was developed at Oak Ridge. In fact,
I worked on that at Oak Ridge during the practice school days.
My students did. That process was implemented at Hanford, and it
was the far superior process that made much cleaner separations
and didn t produce nearly the kind of waste that they d had
before. And then with that experience, du Pont implemented that
process at Savannah River but with some modifications of
equipment. Purex is still the basic process used in reprocessing
spent fuel from commercial power reactors throughout the world.
Wilmsen: Do you know why du Pont didn t want to be connected with the
military?
Pigford: Well, their business is commercial chemical products, and they
can make a lot more money- -you only get a fee for working for the
government. Westinghouse, which is a company that runs the
equivalent operation at Savannah River now, does not make as much
money off its commercial investment, it s just the nature of the
company. General Electric does, but that s run entirely
differently than Westinghouse. Westinghouse sought, and claimed,
the contract to run Savannah River when du Pont finally bowed
out. Well, it hasn t been so long ago--maybe fifteen years ago.
But du Pont, typical of well-run chemical companies, makes a lot
more revenue off of its investment. There is not much revenue in
simply the fee for running a government operation.
The University of California contracts to operate government
laboratories because it doesn t make any money from operations
otherwise, except for its investments in the stock market. So it
likes the fee it gets from running the government laboratories at
Livermore, Berkeley, and Los Alamos. And sometimes it does a
lousy job in running them.
Wilmsen: Okay, well, we can talk about that.
Pigford: There was an excellent op-ed editorial in the Chronicle today.
You ve heard about these security violations?
Wilmsen: Oh, yes.
Pigford: And it says at last the university is being taken to task,
because really it s the operating organization that is
responsible for implementing security requirements. And we ve
been hearing for years that DOE or FBI or CIA screwed up. Yes,
they did a little, but the university has the number one
responsibility.
40
Hanson Benedict: Mentor
Wilmsen: I see. What was it like working with Hanson Benedict?
Pigford: Well, that s a good question. It was a great experience. He is
a prince of a man. It s really very difficult to articulate it.
He s kind of shy fellow, yet quite confident in his own
abilities. Low key, very considerate of other people, ideal.
Every young career man, I m surecertainly in the
profession of science and engineeringneeds a mentor. And I was
very lucky.
He was in great demand for consulting work, and he knew
enough to keep it in bounds. And it was partly through his
influence that I was so lucky to be in on so much exciting
technical work.
We were learning together and I grew to respect his
knowledge as a scientist, and yet he was able to help rather than
instruct me just the sort of thing I needed. Even when we
started writing textbooks, it was amazing how things worked out.
I had not done a lot of writing before then. We would divide a
book up into chapters and generally try to rely on what each of
us had developed with class notes, but not completely.
Remarkably, our chapters just melded; you couldn t tell who wrote
them. That probably shows his influence on me. He didn t tell
me how to write. In fact he was very kind, too kind: he tried
his best to accept what I did write, but would always bring up
enough questions so I could see what needed to be done.
Even in the second edition of our book, which came out in
1981, we were then at two different places he at MIT still and I
at Berkeley and he was no longer department chairman. He had
retired from that, so he had time to do the book. I was
department chairman at that time, and somewhat pressured, but
from all the way across the country, it seemed to work the same
way, as if we were in the same place.
He was very, very great. I say "was" he s still living.
But he has a form of Alzheimers that is debilitating to him. He
was in the process of writing his memoirs, but now he can t
remember enough to write.
Wilmsen: How old is he now?
Pigford: He must be in his mid-eighties.
Yes.
Maybe high eighties, I guess,
41
Wilmsen: What was your reaction to Eisenhower s Atoms for Peace speech?
1950s Government Policv and Earlv Career
Pigford: Oh, I was somewhat thrilled about it. I d never encountered
something that had such a push from government . Of course I d
encountered that during the war, but for a peacetime subject, it
was quite unusual.
I couldn t figure out why Eisenhower was doing this, because
he didn t know beans about it. And frankly I wasn t sure at the
time that he knew enough about the nuclear field to make a
judgement, but now I m sure he did. He was relying upon his
advisors and he saw this as a great political opportunity. And
I m sure he believed in it and was happy to be involved in it.
I think it was a little overblown, similar to offering so
much money for training and research reactors to so many schools,
but not that distorted. It brought some other countries into the
field of commercial nuclear power a little more rapidly than they
should have been.
I had a consulting job many years later in Kuwait and they
wanted to build some nuclear power reactors. It s a small
country, loads of money from loads of oil. I went there and
asked them why. You wouldn t normally build a commercial-size
electrical generating plant in such a small country anyway.
Because they re so small, it s hard to be economical. But they
distilled a lot of sea water to make their fresh water, which is
a very expensive process. It needed a lot of energy for that.
Well, I told them, "Why
don t you just use your gas that you
flare up from oil wells, or else use oil?" They said, "Our oil
makes so much money for us, we can t afford to use it, and we
were told by this British company that we can build a few nuclear
power reactors and they will do the job."
Well, that s nonsense. And I didn t know the British
company, but I m convinced they were either ill-informed, or
simply riding the coattails of the enthusiasm that got started
with those international conventions that Eisenhower initiated.
And Kuwait didn t have the capability of making an evaluation.
They were subject to the whims of an English engineering company,
which to them was bound to have all of the knowledge and
reputation it needed. And there s an example of what could have
been a very negative fallout from over-enthusiasm.
42
Wilmsen: I take it they didn t build the reactors?
Pigford: No. I think I earned my consulting fee. [laughter]
Wilmsen: In 1954 Congress passed the second Atomic Energy Act. What kind
of an impact did that have on the school at MIT or your work, if
any?
Pigford: Well, it did have an impact. It did give a blessing to
commercial nuclear energy. At MIT we wanted that kind of
national policy support. In short, we didn t want to work just
for the military program. We would not have touched it. And
that solidified nuclear energy in the minds of many people-
parents of studentsand we began to get some of the best
students that had ever come to MIT.
Wilmsen: Did you testify before Congress or anything like that?
Pigford: Oh, sure. I testified through the years.
Wilmsen: I mean, for that particular act?
Pigford: No. No. My name hadn t risen to such a level that they would
want to hear me testify at Congress. And in those days I really
hadn t started forming many judgement opinions as to what s worth
doing in terms of an overall policy. I loved getting into a
project and being presented with technical problems and solving
them, but you don t testify in Congress on things like that.
They need policy advice, and I wasn t into that, yet. Pratt and
Whitney was the first place where I rather carefully, cautiously
got into policy advice; many years later.
Costs of Constructing Nuclear Power Plants in the 1960s
Wilmsen: In the 1960s it started to appear that there were really pretty
tremendous cost overruns in the building of nuclear power plants,
and I was wondering how you reacted to that at that time.
Pigford: You mean commercial plants?
Wilmsen: Yes. The costs actually really far exceeding what estimates had
been.
Pigford: Well, in fact, for a long while there were no cost overruns. The
main companies supplying commercial nuclear plants were General
Electric and Westinghouse, and shortly thereafter also Babcock
43
and Wilcox and Combustion Engineering. To convince their
customers that this was real, they had to offer guarantees. Not
only did they guarantee the cost of the plant, but they
guaranteed the cost of the fuel cycle, which was really not much
under their control. How can you guarantee the future cost of
your uranium? The plant s supposed to last thirty years and the
market may change.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: They guaranteed it, so there were no cost overruns. They
swallowed the extra cost, and I think they swallowed more than
they expected to. But the potential difference was large. And
it turned out to be very large. One hundred nuclear plants at a
commercial value of a few billion each, you see, that s several
hundred billion. And that s big even with today s numbers. As
they developed their first customers, which were during the early
sixties, they started backing away from those guarantees as
quickly as they could. And then the cost overruns began to show
up. Diablo Canyon you ve heard of.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: The Diablo Canyon nuclear plant, built and owned by Pacific Gas
and Electric Company, is the classic example. I know something
about that because I had two official interactions. One was when
PG&E applied in the 1960s, maybe 1967, for permits from the
Atomic Energy Commission to start construction, which required
safety analysis and so forth. I was a member of the three-man
Atomic Safety and Licensing Board set up by Congress to review
that application and make the first legal decision that it would
be safe and competently operated. The other interaction I had
was at the very end of that whole series of problems which
occurred all up into the 1980s. I got involved as a consultant
to a legal firm which was the counsel for the special committee
of the board of directors that had been set up, authorized by the
full board to act on the behalf of the company against the
officers of the company and against the rest of the board because
of errors in the management of the Diablo Canyon project. It led
to a class-action settlement on behalf of the company and its
stockholders, against the officers and directors. And so those
were the direct kind of actions I had.
Well, there was an enormous cost overrun that we can get
into later for more detail. They got the construction permit,
even though I voted against it, myself, which is a different
issue .
44
After several years, construction of the Diablo Canyon
nuclear plant was near ing completion. Then it was discovered
that the seismic investigation done by the company s consultants
to prove adequacy of seismic design was ill founded because they
had not recognized the existence of an earthquake fault offshore
not so far away. They then had to redesign the plant. And as is
frequently said, they had to rebuild it. Not completely, but
once you find an error, then you have to go back and check so
many other things that had been built, for errors and so forth.
It s very expensive.
Then a few years later, they found an error in that
reconstruction, and that required the same thing over again. And
the plant ended up costing I think about three times as much as
what they had expected to pay.
Wilmsen: Yes. Were those the kinds of problems people were encountering
in the 1950s? What caused the cost overruns in the 1950s?
Pigford: There were cost overruns in the 1950s, on government plants where
you could see the costs. And the first plant, the Shippingport
[Pennsylvania] plant, which was built as a demonstration
commercial plant by Admiral Rickover- -although it was not
commercialhad large cost overruns. His nuclear submarines had
large cost overruns, but he performed so well, Congress was not
unhappy at all.
I don t know of any government project that didn t have
large cost overruns, but the ones that were dramatic, that
affected nuclear energy itselfcommercial nuclear energywere
commercial projects, and those weren t occurring until the late
sixties or early seventies. The early commercial nuclear plants
were sold on fixed-price turn-key contracts, so any overruns were
absorbed by the suppliers, such as General Electric and
Westinghouse. They did this to get the business, but they soon
returned to cost-plus financing.
Wilmsen: Oh, okay.
Pigford: Now, I took leave from MIT in 1957 to help start up the General
Atomic Company, in La Jolla. This was a new laboratory. And one
of our goals was to develop an entirely new type of nuclear power
reactor that could do the job better than the water-cooled
reactors that had been spawned by the navy program. And that was
a fine project and I was in charge of engineering, but we did not
have enough engineers on the project. We knew it. We later
brought in Bechtel to supply the engineering, and it turned out
that our estimates of cost were so bad enormous cost overruns on
45
that. I had left well before that became apparent, but I may
have been responsible for some of it.
Wilmsen: What do you think accounted for improper estimates?
Pigford: Well, General Atomic itself was staffed mainly by physicists, and
I was to them more of a physicist than an engineer. They did not
have an appreciation for the importance of engineering; I knew we
were in trouble. I got Bechtel on board, but Bechtel became so
enthusiastic about the new technical features of the project that
I think it went overboard. And our customers, the utility
companies, became so impressed by the new features that they did
not demand the care and scrutiny that you would normally get from
engineering companies.
Wilmsen: What were the new features?
Pigford: It was to be a plant that would turn out steam at high
temperature and pressure because that had been the whole trend in
the utility industry in this country through the thirties and
forties and fifties. You burn coal, generate steam, and the
higher the temperature and the pressure, the more efficient it is
in making electricity. And that had been their way of obtaining
electricity and it worked for them in the 1930s. In the 1940s--
or late thirties they did try going well beyond the bounds of
normal materials into supercritical steam, which is extremely
high pressure, and that turned out to be a financial disaster.
But from that background, our customers, the utility
companies, loved anything that went to high temperature and
pressure if we told them we could do it, whereas the water-cooled
reactors had stepped backward. They could operate only 32 or 30
percent efficiency from heat to electricity whereas their modern
coal plants could operate at almost 40 percent. It s an enormous
difference.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: And if the plants cost the same, then you always buy the more
efficient one. Light -water plants were more economical than
coal, in spite of their lower efficiency. Utility companies
simply didn t like that. So we came up with a design that was a
new kind of reactor that turned out steam at high temperatures
and pressures and they were so excited. That s a case of going
overboard. Like some places went overboard after Eisenhower s
initiative. You just have to be careful. And it s easy to
oversell to yourself your project.
46
General Atomic. 1957-1959; Strong Physics. Weak Engineering
Wilmsen: What prompted you to take that leave of absence from MIT?
Pigford: Wonderful experience. I had gotten such exciting experience at
MIT learning and defining a new field and participating in
exciting developments and applications. I began to dream of
carrying out even larger projects involving a team of skilled
scientists and engineers.
Pigford: I d learned how to work with physicists and engineers and so
forth; I was given ample commercial funding to assesmble a large
staff and was put in charge of the engineering projects. A lot
of money was available because it was supplied by General
Dynamics which was the first big conglomerate in the United
States, formed by merger of aircraft and shipbuilding industries.
They built nuclear submarines for the navy. And they wanted to
be identified with more science, simply because that was the
thing to do after the war: add more science into your operations.
And they wanted to also have the excitement of an entirely new
project in this emerging field of nuclear power.
I was given all the resources I could use, and we moved
fast, and we quickly became the successful bidder on one of the
lucrative government projects to develop a nuclear-propelled ship
with merchant-maritime application, which was a non-military
application. That was one of the projects I got started.
And then we introduced this higher-temperature reactor for
commercial electricity generation. It was a lot of fun. I was
really a world traveler then in engineering, but I wasn t happy
in my two years that I dedicated to it because I was spending
more time promoting our work in high circles than I really wanted
to do. I wanted to get back and do more technical work, so it
was very easy for me to decide to go back to teaching.
Wilmsen: In promoting the work in high circles, do you mean in Congress?
Pigford: Yes, as well as in government agencies and industry. We had to
argue before Congress to get that contract on the maritime
reactor.
Wilmsen: This was for General Atomic?
Pigford: Yes. There were so many complaints from the well-established
nuclear industry, by that time, working on light -water reactors,
about our claims for the higher-temperature reactor, which were
scientifically pretty good. Senator Clinton Anderson, from
Arizona or New Mexico, was a very powerful senator on the Joint
Committee on Atomic Energy, a powerful entity in those days. He
hauled me before a hearing, asking, implying, and even claiming
that we had stolen some technical secrets from Los Alamos to go
into the high- temperature reactor. And that was a fun hearing.
Wilmsen: Was it true?
Pigford: Maybe, to a very limited extent, when we adoptednot stolesome
published work. But not significantly. But not long after that
there was a different project that General Atomic sold to the
military. I wasn t involved in it. In fact I was against it
completely. This was right after the Sputnik went up, which
scared so many scientists in this country. It showed that Russia
was far ahead of what we thought. Our laboratory, General
Atomic, had some physicists who d worked at Los Alamos, and Los
Alamos has a terrible reputation of coming up with greedy
whimsical projects of other things you can do with atomic bombs.
And one was to propel a large mass in space by shooting off
atomic bombs behind it.
An exploding bomb gives quite a bit of thrust. One of our
physicists from Los Alamos worked on that, and he introduced an
idea that General Atomic should develop. That led to some proper
hard feelings. I was against it because I learned that to
equalize the thrust and mass, it doesn t work on a little object
like a car or a missile, it has to be a big object like a
battleship. The airforce loved it because, on paper, you could
have a battleship-sized missile with people living aboard and in
the lower hull you d have a lot of Atlas-sized rockets, each one
with a nuclear bomb at its tip, and they d drop out periodically,
fly to the back of the ship, and explode. And there s a big
shock absorber there that absorbs the explosion and converts it
into a thrust, and that s the way it flies through space.
I was sick when I heard the air force generals had
appropriated hundreds of millions of dollars to work on this
stupid thing. And it went for a long time into the late
sixties without being cancelled.
That s an example of what a laboratory like that can do when
it had some really terrific physicists, but they did not
understand at all the perspective of engineering. I brought
engineering perspective, but they thought I was a physicist. But
it was a purely physics project, they wouldn t respect the kind
of engineering that Bechtel does.
48
[Interview 2: September 29, 1999] ##
Wilmsen: Today is September 30, 1999, and this is the second interview
with Thomas Pigford. When we ended last time, you had just
mentioned a project or a government contract you had gotten when
you were at General Atomic to develop a nuclear power reactor for
maritime propulsion. And first of all, I was wondering what was
the reason for the government being interested in developing
reactors for maritime use?
Pigford: Well, that was a part of President Eisenhower s Atoms for Peace
initiative. I guess there are two reasons. After the Atoms for
Peace project was initiated officially by President Eisenhower,
the Atomic Energy Commission was looking for many different
applications. And it had been so successful, even shortly
thereafter, in the applications to naval vessels submarines ,
especiallythat they thought it would be logical to consider
using nuclear power to propel merchant ships. But that didn t
have the unique need as in the case of a submarine to stay under
water for months, literally; the only way of doing that is by
nuclear power. Like many applications of nuclear power, it s
worth doing only if it s done to generate fairly large amounts of
power. So the idea of nuclear power for smaller craft and for
transportation was just foolish and out of the question in both
the expense and the weight.
They settled on propelling a merchant vessel over a long
distance, which smacks of the justification for the nuclear
propelled airplane. At that time they d begun getting a lot of
oil from the mideast, and the Suez Canal had been blocked by the
war between the British and the Egyptians. So for a while it was
necessary to transport oil in tankersvery large tankers around
the Cape of South Africa and on up the Atlantic, to the East
Coast of the United States. And that appeared on paper to be a
long enough voyage to justify using nuclear power. In fact, the
oil consumed, if it were propelled by an oil-fired engine would
be fairly sizeable, but they were doing that. But oil was
getting expensive, so that was the incentive for maritime
application. But after a few years elapsed, it began to be
evident that the need for that application no longer existed,
partly because the Suez Canal was reopened, and secondly, because
pipelines to deliver oil to the Mediterranean had been opened.
Well, it was amazing to me that it took the Atomic Energy
Commission and Congress that long to see the handwriting on the
wall and decide that they just didn t have a unique application
for nuclear energy in maritime applications. Meanwhile a
demonstration ship had been built by a different contractor to
the maritime administration, and that was the USS Savannah, which
was officially a cargo ship, but it was used mainly to give
prestigious people rides on the first nuclear propelled merchant
ship, and it wasn t used for much of anything else.
The application that my company worked on was strictly to be
a large enough power plant to propel something that could be
economical, and that was for this merchant application. It led
to many interesting technical problems. We came up with a new
type of power conversion cycle called a closed-cycle gas turbine
system, not based upon generating steam as is done in the naval
nuclear power plants, and a new type of helium-cooled reactor
which hadn t been built before. It was fun working on it, but as
I say, the justification began to be questioned and rightly so,
and the project was cancelled sometime in the sixties after I
left General Atomic.
Many Different Nuclear Reactor Designs Developed in the 1950s
Wilmsen: Now in the fifties, going over your article on the historical
aspects of nuclear power development,
1
it seemed like there was a
kind of profusion of efforts to develop different kinds of
reactors.
Pigford: Oh, yes. For commercial applications, there were many different
kinds for different applications.
Wilmsen: And why was that? Why were there so many efforts at that time?
Pigford: Well, it was partly because it wasn t clear which type of reactor
was best suited for economical application in nuclear power. The
British had come out in 1957 with the world s first commercial-
sized nuclear power plants. Those were enormous gas-cooled
plants, cooled with carbon dioxide, and it was evident to the
engineers that that s something they can build fairly readily
from their experience in plants to produce plutonium, which were
different than those used in the United States. But the early
British gas-cooled plants were not anywhere close to an efficient
and economical design for producing commercial power.
The British thought they were. They held an international
conference in 1957 on that, but their view of the economics was
Pigford, Thomas H. "Historical Aspects of Nuclear Energy Utilization
in the Half-Century and its Prospect Toward the 21st Century," Journal of
Nuclear Science and Technology 33(3): 195-201.
50
tainted by the fact that they had only just begun using modern
economic analysis for costing government-owned power plants.
They thought that they could build a capital intensive plant,
which nuclear plants are, with a very low yearly charge on
capital investmentassuming that it was easy to raise money.
Well, that is so far away from what is the going rate of capital
investment charges in the United States and other countries where
electric power generation is handled by the industry and not by
the government that I think that was the fundamental mistake on
the part of the British. When we got into the details, looking
at it, we concluded that their capital cost was too great, the
interest doing construction would sway the economics, and their
design had little chance of being economical.
It was the common thread in the United States that different
types of nuclear power plants were required to be economical. So
Admiral Rickover rose to the challenge. Even though he was
supposed to be working strictly on naval applications, he saw the
possibility of using that technology- -which is pressurized-water
reactors where the coolant is high-pressure water going through
the reactorfor constructing a commercial nuclear power plant.
And he built one a prototype, not at an economical level at
Shippingport , in Pennsylvania. And it could be said that that
led to what is now viewed as the real design for commercial
nuclear power plants throughout the world.
The Russians didn t follow that design. They selected the
Chernobyl type design which had its unique problems of safety.
But it was thought by many scientists and engineers in this
country that that could not be as economical as pressurized water
technology or some other designs. Russia has since elected to
build the American- type pressurized water reactors.
One of the problems was that you want high temperature of
coolant to have high percentage conversion to electricity, as I
think I must have discussed last time.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: To get high temperature, you need water at very high pressures
because of the boiling point of water. And the cost of the
pressure vessel, which is an enormous vessel it would be in the
order of sixteen to twenty feet in diameter, more than that tall,
with walls about nine inches thick some greater and some less.
It s an extremely expensive thing to fabricate.
So an alternative idea was to use a reactor coolantbecause
all of your reactor has to go inside that pressure vessel that
could be operated at high temperature and not high pressure.
51
Liquid sodium is one of the examples. Its boiling point is much
much greater than water. There was a parallel project paid for
by the government, carried out in Los Angeles by an operating
contractor, to develop a sodium cooled reactor for commercial
power. And that was one of the contenders.
Another idea that came from a scientific group was to use an
organic coolant, a liquid, that does not have such a high vapor
pressure as water. A simple analogue in everyday life is
antifreeze. Here, the organic was something like two benzene
rings attached together. And that was a separate project.
Then the Canadians, as well as several people in this
country, saw that another solution is not to use a pressure
vessel at all, but to make the reactor very large, consisting of
many parallel pipes of zirconium alloy. In between the pipes is
heavy water which can moderate the neutrons for criticality. The
moderated neutrons then diffuse through the walls of the
zirconium pipes and the solid uranium fuel rods on the inside,
and those fuel rods have to be cooled with a high pressure
coolant to get heat out at high temperature. So the zirconium
pipes had to be thick enough to contain the high pressure and yet
thin enough to let the neutrons through. And that became the
principle design problem. It had no overall pressure vessel at
all. The high pressure water coming out through the pipes,
through the pressure tubes, would then go to a heat exchanger and
generate steam. That survived in Canada. It s a very fine
nuclear power design. It turns out to be more expensive in terms
of capital costs than the pressurized water reactors, but that
was hard to foresee.
In the United States, one of the government laboratories at
Hanford and another one at Savannah River did some design work on
the heavy-water pressure-tube reactor, as well as the group that
I had at General Atomic.
Then another approach to getting a high-temperature coolant
without high pressure was to use a gas coolant. Well, that s
what the British used in their original design and as I said
those were very large, very inefficient. That s because their
gas was carbon dioxide and their neutron moderator was graphite.
The temperature had to be kept low to avoid reaction of carbon
dioxide with graphite to form carbon monoxide. And at high
temperatures the carbon dioxide is also corrosive to the metal
tubes that carry the coolant over the fuel rods.
Well, we saw that could be avoided by using an inert gas
like helium. Helium is a fairly rare gas, but it is found in gas
deposits along with natural gas. And that was a solution,
52
incidentally, back in the 1930s after the Hindenberg explosion.
This big zeppelin was buoyed by filling it with hydrogen gas,
which is very explosive.
It burst and exploded in New Jersey, and lost a lot of
lives. Since then, lighter-than-air craft are filled with
helium, and the record of safety is very good. When we see the
Good Year blimp going over, that s a helium-filled balloon, or
dirigible. So we said, "Let s use helium and generate heat at a
very high temperature, and it could flow right through holes in
graphite and not react with it." We would put carbon matrix fuel
solids in the holes in the graphite and they would get very hot.
There was no metal in the reactor at all. And that became our
number one nuclear power reactor design at General Atomic.
And that was very exciting to the electric power industry
because we could turn out steam at the high temperature and
pressure that they d grown to love. The efficiency from heat to
electrical energy conversion was around 40 percent, which they
liked, versus around 30-32 percent for the pressurized-water
reactors .
Wilmsen: That was more on the order of the efficiency of a coal-burning
plant.
Pigford: That s right. We could have gone to higher temperatures, but the
steam part of the plant would have required more expensive
alloys, and it was the same thing that limited the steam
temperature in the coal-fired plants. And that one became a very
attractive power plant. So those were examples of some of the
alternatives .
Another example: some people felt that there were not a lot
of known resources of uranium fuel at a reasonable cost and that
they would have to proceed directly to a breeder reactor which
could utilize all of the natural uranium rather than, say, a
fraction of one percent of it, which is the present technology
for the nuclear fuel cycle. And that led the government to
establish a new laboratory of its own in New York called Knolls
Atomic Power Laboratory to develop a commercial fast breeder
reactor.
At the same time, one utility company so believed in that
concept that was Detroit Edison in Detroit, Michigan- -that it
decided to start building such a commercial nuclear power plant
right away. They wanted to show the industry that it could be
done. They had the view that a nuclear reactor was just another
heat source and it takes the same kind of skills that they use to
build conventional power plants. Well, they were wrong. It
53
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
takes those skills plus others. And it creates a lot of new
problems which they weren t prepared for.
Now that s the story in examples. Well, another example was
the aqueous homogenous reactor that was originated before I came
to Oak Ridge, that we talked about last time. That was
originated mainly because of the wonderful idea of a fluid
nuclear fuel that could just go through a pipe, and a large
expansion like an onion-shaped bulge in the pipe would make it
critical. It would get very hot, and you then pump the liquid
fuel out into a heat exchanger and generate steam. The aqueous
homogenous project was still going in the 1960s.
And then some people decidedand that was also at Oak
Ridge--to adapt the molten-salt, fluid-fuel reactor, which had
been originated for the nuclear propelled airplane, to a
commercial power plant. And they built a prototype of that and
ran it, as they did the aqueous homogenous reactor.
So there s a smattering of examples. I didn t count them,
but there were a lot of different concepts, all funded by the
government, except here we have the case of Detroit Edison
pushing a fast breederat its own expensewhile the government
was pushing it at the Knolls Atomic Power Laboratory.
Was it, then, just the economics that led to the high-pressure
water reactor being-
Well, in the long run you can say economics, but the economics
occurred as a result of various special technical problems they
faced.
Let s see, I should add one more concept. When Glenn
Seaborg was chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission, that was
beginning I think in 1964 1 may have that date wrong either "63
or "64 at that time the cold war had heated up and they were
asking for new and more production of plutonium.
2
The commercial
nuclear power wave was beginning to blossom, so the Atomic Energy
Commission decided to marry both problems and build a commercial
power-producing, plutonium-producing reactor at Hanford.
And that was to be a modification of the Hanford reactors
that had been built during the war to make plutonium. In those
reactors, water from the Columbia River was the coolant. It
flowed over the aluminum-clad uranium metal fuel that got hot,
2
Glenn Seaborg was chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission from 1961
to 1971.
54
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
but that heat was not converted into power, it was at such low
temperature. The water from the Columbia was pumped through the
tubes and then dumped back into the Columbia River. So the
modification was to have a closed-cycle, water cooling system,
which required pressurized water tubes, similar to the Canadian
design. But the moderator would be big blocks of graphite, solid
graphite, rather than heavy water. Then they would take that hot
water coming out of the pressure tubes, put it through a heat
exchanger, generate steam, and that steam would then be expanded
in a turbine to make electricity. And they actually officially
sold that steam as it came out of the plant to a private utility
which converted it into the electricity. The two were married
physically together, so you didn t have to pipe it very far.
It was a fairly low-temperature operation design, but it
made lots of plutonium. It was somewhat similar to the Chernobyl
reactors in the Soviet Union. But it did not, fortunately,
suffer any accidents like the Chernobyl reactor.
So there s a brief smattering of worlds of different
concepts. Oh, there was another one. The army decided they
wouldthey had a unique application, and for a while they liked
the idea of the nuclear-propelled tanks and things like this, but
they were too clumsy and large. But they were interested in
powering a station at the Antarctic, and that s a daunting job.
Those stations are normally oil fuelled to generate heat and
electricitymainly heat. And getting the oil in for the winter
down there is a very tough problem. A nuclear powered plant
would require very little in terms of weight of fuel coming in
every year to keep it running, and it could run literally for
years without refueling if you wanted it to. The only trouble is
they never needed anything as powerful as a normal nuclear power
plant, and just the cost of the equipment, shielding and so
forth, is so great, you cannot afford to do it for a low power
level, and that ruined that project.
Can you sum up what were the technical features of the high-
pressure water reactor that made it a more popular design?
Well, of course. Originally, it s because we knew a lot about
that technology since they had already succeeded remarkably well
in the navy. Why did they succeed? Well, they found some
special material of constructiona metal to clad the fuel. It
has to keep the water away from the fuel, and it had to be a very
corrosive-resistant metal. They developed a new alloy out of
zirconium, which was a metal hardly known to the industry before
then the materials industry. They had to separate some
contaminants --natural contaminants in it that absorbed neutrons,
55
and that development was very successful. Some of our students
worked on that at Oak Ridge doing the separation.
And being willing to relax the efficiency down to a
neighborhood of 30 percent contributed to its popularity. That s
a matter, really, in the long run, of economics. In the days of
coal-fired plants and nothing else, the economic trend was for
higher efficiency, and it was soundly based. But in the days of
nuclear power plants, the things that drive the economics are the
cost of the high-pressure water system and the reactor vessel,
and they drive it the other way. They were willing to do that,
and it still became economical. So recognizing and accepting
that, which the utility industry didn t want to do, was a major
thing.
Wilmsen: What finally brought them around?
Pigford: Seeing the technical problems that were arising in all the other
concepts. Just leave out the high temperature and gas coolant
reactor because that came up after the water reactors had emerged
as the best technology. In the sodium-cooled graphite reactor
the sodium is a liquid and it wasn t supposed to leak into the
graphite because they had some high temperature alloy to keep the
liquid sodium from the graphite. But some did leak; it s hard to
look at something with that many miles of thin piping to not
expect some leaks. And it reacted with the graphite and absorbed
neutrons. The graphite structural strength changed a lot.
Sodium fires, mainly external to the reactor, were challenging.
Sodium going through the reactor got very radioactive, and if you
put that directly into the heat exchanger to generate steam,
there s a possibility of sodium leaking into the water. Even
tiny leaks would generate hydrogen that could be a fire hazard,
and sodium leaking directly into the air will burn.
II
Pigford: They had to design new heat exchangers, of a kind they d never
faced before. And you can make them. It s easy to do it on
paper, but the cost of solving the problem of joints and leaks-
there were so many leaks, it was discouraging. We still have
leaks in heat exchangers. We have leaks, and we re replacing
tubes in heat exchangers for pressurized-water reactors. It s
turned out to be one of the most difficult, time-consuming and
money- consuming problems in the nuclear power industry. They
know how to do it, it just takes down-time to fix them. So what
people were sure looked like a mundane problem, turned out to be
one that took a lot of effort and never completely worked as well
as they thought it would.
56
In the organic cooler reactor, the organic coolant worked
all right. It s not a very efficient coolant, but certainly gave
higher temperature and more efficiency than water. But when
exposed to the intense radiation inside the reactor vessel-
nuclear radiation will catalyze the polymerization of organic
compounds quite readily in terms of pitch, of tar. And this
turned out in experiments, to be just a machine to make asphalt.
You were continuously having to separate those high molecular
weight, or high melting point tars from the organic. And I think
that kind of stuff should have been examined more from that point
of view before they ever went very far. It s not just a normal
power plant. There are problems that you ve never seen before.
Industry and Government Response to Developing a Helium-cooled
Graphite Reactor at General Atomic
Wilmsen: Yes, well, where did the impetus come from for developing the
helium-cooled graphite reactor that you were working on at
General Atomic?
Pigford: I tried to introduce two reactors: the heavy-water reactor like
the Canadians used because no one in this country was working on
it, and I knew it was a very good concept, and secondly the
helium-cooled reactor.
Well, public relations had a great deal to do with it. I
was not very much involved in that part of it, but here is a new
laboratory trying to make a statement, a scientific statement
that shows it can jump over the industry. That was the primary
thing that the sponsors wanted.
Wilmsen: Who were the sponsors?
Pigford: General Dynamics. They had made a lot of money building military
airplanes and submarines and they were late getting into the
nuclear business. They wanted to be in the nuclear business and
also to get a special scientific identity. And by that time it
had become very difficult for other companies to break into the
field of building water reactors. Only four companies made it:
Westinghouse, General Electric, Babcock Wilcox, and Combustion
Engineeringall of which were well known for building equipment
for the electrical utility industry.
Wilmsen: Why did it become hard for other companies to break in?
57
Pigford: Well, it took a lot of capital. I told you last time that
initially these companies had to guarantee their plants costs,
and that took a lot of money to do because you had to guarantee
the fuel cycle. Well, by the time they d established themselves,
new companies, to break in, would have had to offer similar
things because they were new and untested. To take on a five
billion dollar project without enough experience was hard to do.
American Standard, that makes bathroom fixtures and they
also make some industrial equipment, tried to break into it but
they just didn t have the background in designing and building
that kind of equipment, or the connections, or the reputation.
Wilmsen: Now, I had asked you about where the impetus came from for the
helium-cooled reactor.
Pigford: Oh, mainly public relations because we knew the utilities were
still hungry for a really high temperature steam. They still
wanted that.
Wilmsen: Because of that differential in the efficiency?
Pigford: Yes. And we had some novel technical ideas, like no metal in the
reactor, and using ceramics entirely. And graphite is a strange
material. The graphite would be the structural material: maybe
eighteen feet in diameter with holes in it. Helium flows through
the holes, and the nuclear fuel is incorporated in some graphite
which makes little rods in the holes. Graphite itself gets
stronger the higher the temperature. We pointed out that the
helium didn t require high pressure, so we avoided the pressure
vessel problem.
Those were technical gimmicks that we introduced, and I was
amazed at how quickly many of the utility companies fell in line
and poured in money to support the project, which was to build a
demonstration plant in Philadelphia, in Pennsylvania.
Wilmsen: Then last time you mentioned that you had to do a lot of
promotion of what you were doing because the established
companies were complaining. The established companies who were
in light-water reactors were complaining about what you were
doing. What were their complaints?
Pigford: Well, the complaints from the industrial companies, like General
Electric and Westinghouse, were that we didn t know what we were
doing. We did not have a strong staff of mechanical engineers
and civil engineers. Mainly we had a bunch of physicists and
materials people, and a few engineers. And I was in charge of
the reactor projects as well as in charge of engineering.
58
Because of that, I recognized the problem and got Bechtel
involved, which supplied the other engineering.
But their claims were still valid that we did not have any
reputation for engineering like they did. We didn t have any
reputation at all. It was a brand new company and it made no
products. We didn t have any of the people from the aircraft
industry working for us. We did utilize a group from the
Electric Boat Company that makes submarines, intending to use
them for some of the engineering, and we tried that on the marine
propulsion reactor. But I was in charge of that, too. I didn t
think very much of their engineering, so we got rid of them. But
these were the claims of the competition, and they were valid.
Wilmsen: Did that bear on government support for your project?
Pigford: No, the government supported us wholeheartedly. Let s see, why
did they do that? Well, the British had come up by that time
with a better design. Their first design of a C02 -cooled natural
uranium reactor was too expensive. They came up with a better
design using a higher temperature metal to separate the coolant
from the graphite and to clad the fuel. So they upped their
temperatures and they went to ceramic fuel, a major development
that was done by Rickover s laboratory. And so in the late
fifties they came up with a more economical concept called the
advanced graphite reactor.
And they had seen the possibility originally that they would
be the world leader in nuclear power. Oh, they were initially,
but it didn t last very long. They quickly faltered because of
the design, but they saw a way of regaining that and it was a
much better design. It wasn t clearly better than the light-
water reactors, although they claimed it was.
And I don t think our country understood their economics
well enough in those days to understand the importance of how the
money is to be raised, the financing costs. But our Congress had
this powerful Joint Committee on Atomic Energyjoint between the
House and Senatevery powerful. They thought we were missing
the boat. All these concepts we were working on, and here the
British have their own new one that looks like we ought to be
doing that too.
They liked having many different parallel prongs, and so the
Congress was about to initiate a project to be carried out by the
Atomic Energy Commission on this higher temperature gas-cooled
reactor to be built at Oak Ridge, Tennessee, to be a government-
owned nuclear power plant.
59
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Well, [pause] you see, of course there had been other
projects for government-owned nuclear power plants: the Knolls
Atomic Power Laboratory, that first breeder. Well, that had
already faulted. They made a fundamental technical error, and
then that laboratory was taken over by the naval program- -no more
breeder work. Then these other projects I ve been describing,
like with the aqueous homogenous, or the sodium-cooled graphite,
were to be developed with government money by a contractor, but
then implemented by industry as their own concept to be built on
a commercial basis.
Here, Congress was going to leapfrog and build a commercial-
scale version of the advanced British reactor. I believe that
was to be part of the TVA [Tennessee Valley Authority] system
which looks to many people like a commercial generating system--
and it operates that way- -but it s government owned.
And government can build plants that have much cheaper costs
because they can finance at the government rate of interest,
which in those days was around 8 percent per year as compared
with maybe 16 percent per year for industry. Enormous leverage.
Utility companies were so much antagonistic to this first
real government venture into commercial electric power that they
were looking for any way to turn it off. They saw our concept,
which was much more novel and looked much better on paper than
the British concept, and so they supported us even more so
because it gave them leverage to turn off the government project,
which they did.
I must point out that the high-temperature, helium-cooled
concept originated in Britain. And we were very mobile and we
hired one of their very top people to come and help us get the
project started. So we owed a lot to the British, although we
did point out that we had modified the design in several ways
that improved on it, which I think was true. The British didn t
follow it because they were happy with their advanced gas-cooled
reactor, and they just weren t ready for that large a step in
technology.
Was that project subsidized by the government?
The high-temperature, gas-cooled reactor? Yes. So did the
industry. I think industry subsidized it more than the
government. We formed a consortium of different electric utility
companies from all over the United States and their input was
much larger than the government input. Now, in ensuing years,
industry lost faith in it; the government continued. In fact, I
think they re still subsidizing it a little bit for different
60
applications, and it may be that their total subsidy grew larger
than the industry s. I m not sure.
Wilmsen: Going back to the question I asked a while ago about the
complaints against General Atomic by the industry, their
complaints, then, were intended to point out areas where the
design could be improved?
Pigford: Oh, no.
Wilmsen: No?
Pigford: Their message was light -water reactor technology is a proved
technology and this, what you re working on, is a pie in the sky,
and your economics are very uncertain. The engineering is not
careful, and so forth, and it won t beat the competition. They
were trying to get the utility companies to not put much money
into it.
Wilmsen: So there were different industry groups who backed your project?
Pigford: Well, there are two main industry segments. One is a supplier of
the equipment, of the reactors, like General Electric,
Westinghouse, Combustion Engineering, and Babcock and Wilcox, and
they re the ones who feared our competition.
The utility companies were mainly the ones who were
motivated by the threat of government-owned commercial power.
There are two different motivations coming into play here. So
the utility companies were the ones that wanted us. It may have
been for a shallow reason--just to turn off the government
project or maybe some of them really believed in it.
Wilmsen: Yes, I see. Interesting dynamics.
Pigford: Indeed, it is. And everything was going fast. Even though I was
not the main promoter of this, I had to do a lot because at
practically every place we went they wanted some technical person
to show that it had some sense. The chap that we got from
England and I were on a road-show circuit for many, many months
on that. And us getting that project was a shock to the supply
industry. They wanted it very badly because it was to be
completely government financed. Whether they believed in the
application or not didn t make so much difference; it was the job
they wanted.
Wilmsen: Yes, how d you manage to get it?
61
Pigford: I guess luck, and the new identity that our company was
espousing. And I d say we really believed in it. We had hired
some very good scientists who were impressivemuch more so than
any of these supply industry companies had- -and I think that did
a lot to sway the Atomic Energy Commission, which decided on the
contractor to go with us.
Alternatives to Nuclear Power, and Environmental Concerns in the
1960s and 1970s
Wilmsen: Another question I had was that I was just thinking about the
opportunity costs involved in building nuclear reactors: at that
time, in the fifties, was there any thought of developing
alternative types of energy, like solar or geothermal or anything
like that? Or did that come later?
Pigford: Well, it came along in parallel but in dribbles. Now geothermal,
I should be fair, was not a dribble. The geothermal field up
near Clear Lake and I ve forgotten the name of that location-
turns out a lot of steam. So you sink a pipe into the ground and
the steam comes out. And the Union Oil is that the right name
for the petroleum company? Union Oil?
Wilmsen: I think so, yes.
Pigford: Who has laboratories out near Martinez.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: For some reason, it went in and developed that steam and that
steam could be put directly into a turbine, generating
electricity. It s low quality steam, but it s free. And Union
Oil, I think, bought a lease on the land, or else owned it, and
they turned out a lot of electrical generating capacity there.
PG&E was impressed by it and they went up and developed similar
leases and also became a customer of steam from Union Oil.
They re still running those plants. They haven t expanded
much through the years because they re just frankly limited by
the amount of water that reaches the underground hot rock to
generate steam. They tried pumping the water back in after it
had been condensed, after going through the turbine, but it
doesn t seem to have really worked well enough. They ve tried
all sorts of ways of recycling the water. It still is a viable
commercial project, but it contributes, in terms of the total
62
generating capacity of the country, a tiny fraction. But it
works .
Now solar energy for generating electricity has not gotten
to that stage. Many concepts have been worked on, and there s a
government laboratory in Colorado that s been working on it for
years. They ve been much more successful in home heating. The
trouble is it costs much more to build a house with solar
heating. And you need standby heaters fuelled with oil or gas
because of breakdown and things like that, but you see more every
year. And it s a nice thing to have if you re willing to spend
that much more money for your house.
Photovoltaics, where the light impinges directly on silicon
--or something similar to siliconand generates a voltage is
becoming more and more efficient. The other device is simply to
heat hot water in coils on your roof. Neither one of those is
any where near commercial application for a [power] station for
electrical energy production.
Oh, there are designs like focusing the sun s rays on a
water boiler, and you can generate high pressurewater and
steam--and you know how to do it, but it s just so expensive.
Wilmsen: Back in the fifties were there any efforts to look into those
alternatives?
Pigford: Only, in my opinionand this is oversimplifying itmainly by
the government laboratories.
Now you can look at some of the brochures turned out by
PG&E, like annual reports, and they very proudly say they re
working on it, but for a central power station they don t believe
in it. I think this is public relations. And I know that they
would agree with that.
Wilmsen: Also, thinking again about the 1950s, what were your major
environmental concerns about nuclear power at that time?
Pigford: Mine or the country s?
Wilmsen: Yours, in the 1950s.
Pigford: Well, of course the safety. We believed that the safety issues
could be solved, but they were very important. And we knew that
if we stumbled along the way, like having an accident, whether it
killed people or not, it would be a major blow to the
applications throughout the whole country as well as throughout
the whole world.
63
And there were lots of accidents. The worst one, in terms
of killing people in this country, was back in the 1960s when the
army s little nuclear power plant for Antarctica had an accident.
They had a prototype at a national laboratory in Idaho which was
running quite successfully in terms of producing steam and
electricity. I can t say successfully in economics; it was too
little.
The army sent their people there for training, and this was
during a shutdown for refueling when they have the reactor vessel
open. There were either two or three operators involved in
taking used fuel out and putting new fuel in, and one of them
simply made a terrible mistake of effectively pulling out a
control absorber when he shouldn t have and the reactor suddenly
went critical and with a burst of energy it produced a small
steam explosion. It doesn t cause a meltdown. In a situation
like that it shuts itself down by boiling the water away. But he
was killed by the blast of x-rays I m using the term loosely--
the nuclear radiation, x-ray-type radiation, that came out. He
got a very high dose.
He also was struck by another control absorber that was
ejected from the reactor in the steam explosion. Evidently he
was leaning over the open tank of water, looking down through the
water, which normally would be safe. And I think he got hurt by
that. The blast ejected him. It was some force from that steam
explosion, and he was found, I think, many yards away.
Wilmsen: Wow.
Pigford: And of course that shocked the industry. And it should have. It
was a strong indication that regardless of how safe a thing is,
human error can overcome those safety features. Of course,
that s what happened at Three Mile Island and that s what
happened at Chernobyl.
So safety was always a predominant thing. We spent a lot of
time in engineering, in designing and testing safety systems.
Wilmsen: What did you think of the Atomic Energy Commission s radiation
standards at that time in the 1950s?
a thing that evolved over time.
It seems to me it s kind of
Pigford: Yes, they ve gotten progressively tighter, and they should have.
Now I really haven t answered your earlier question fully
about what did I think about environmental concerns. Should I go
back to that?
64
Wilmsen: Sure, yes.
Pigford: Well, I became more concerned, or equally concerned anyway, about
the emissions of radioactive material to the environment that
would occur when you operate a nuclear power plant.
Pigford: I was one of the first in the field to plan out calculations on
how important this is. I think I shocked a lot of my colleagues
in the industry by my publications on these that started coming
out in the early seventies, I think, maybe late sixties. And
I ve continued that, still am doing that.
And I felt that the reason the nuclear power plants that
were operating- -some of the very first ones, like for example a
water-cooled, boiling-water reactor near Chicago built for the
Commonwealth Edison system by General Electric--have emissions to
the atmosphere and the water is because it s very expensive to
build something that has zero leakage. It s not impossible.
Well, some physicists might challenge it in the long run, but
essentially it can be done. And the point of view of the reactor
designers, which is a real logical one, is that the government
sets the standard on what is the allowable concentration of a
radioactive material in the air or in the water, and if you meet
that, it s safe.
Radioactivity leaking into the air was a big source of
emissions to the environment from boiling-water reactors. It s
because, for example, the water does corrode the stainless steel
piping and Zircaloy. It s at a very low rate, but it brings some
of that corroded metal into the water and it goes through the
reactor where it becomes radioactive. You have to continue to
remove that with ion exchanges which go to low level waste
disposal of solids.
It also generates radioactivity by the interaction of
neutrons with hydrogen in the water that makes tritium, which is
a triply heavy hydrogen. First there s hydrogen, deuterium, and
tritium. It s half -life is thirteen years, so it s pretty
radioactive. And it tends to evolve as a gas. You re already
decomposing water into hydrogen and oxygen, similar to the
process I ve described for the aqueous homogenous, but at a much
lower rate because fission fragments are not interacting with the
water; it s only neutrons and gamma rays. And the reactor
produces steam which goes directly to a turbine. Well, these
radioactive gases, which are in low concentrations, follow the
steam, and they can bleed out of the turbine and require extra
maintenance.
65
But in terms of environmental releases, it happens this way:
the steam is condensed at low pressure, much below atmospheric.
That means officially you get more work out of it to create
electrical energy. That means the condenser operates under
vacuum (this is true of all steam power plants) and at a pressure
equal to the vapor pressure of water at essentially the cooling
water s temperaturelike the lake or the ocean or whatever. So
air leaks through the condenser, which is a series of metal tubes
that has condensing steam on one side and cooling water on the
other to cool the condenser. Air leaks through the joints of
that heat exchanger where the tubes meet the endthey re spun in
with a pressure joint. Leaks run into where the steam is
condensing, so you get a lot of air.
Normally in any power plant, you have to have a vacuum pump
that continuously removes that air from the condenser, and it s
appreciable. Well, these radioactive gases that came into the
condenser with the steam then get mixed with the air and get
discharged to the atmosphere. And General Electric found that it
had to build a stack about 300 feet high to exhaust the gas--the
condenser air and radioactive gases--at a high enough elevation
so that it would mix better with air before getting to where
human beings are. It was a great embarrassment to them because
it looked like that was a stack for a coal-fired power plant and
they didn t like that at all. But it was the cheapest way of
handling the gas and it met the design requirements, so you can t
fault them because that met the government criteria. They
exhausted millions of curies a year to the atmosphere of tritium
and radioactive noble gases like xenon and krypton.
Well, you said the government standards were evolving and,
yes, they were. In the late sixties and early seventies, or even
the mid-sixties, the Environmental Protection Agency and the AEC
itself began to adopt an additional safety requirement on
emissions that not only must you meet those numerical
concentration limits, but if you can find you can reduce those by
adding some additional recovery equipment and it s cost
effective, then do so. They had a whole set of calculations: you
add this and it increases the cost so much, and finally there s a
knee in the curve where further additions just get to be out of
sight in expense. That knee in the curve was called "as low as
realistically achievable".
Actually, implementation of that had been done first in
Germany on American- type reactors. And they developed themselves
a very good process for simply holding up that gas long enough so
that it decayed before going out to the atmosphere. It didn t
hold up all of it, but it reduced the emissions by factors
probably in the neighborhood of several hundred or even maybe a
66
thousand. I was delighted to see that. That was using a novel
chemical engineering technique, which is fun to work on.
Wilmsen: They were holding tritium for eleven years or longer?
Pigford: Tritium is the one exception.
Wilmsen: Oh, okay. [laughs]
Pigford: Tritium is not as dangerous radioactively as radioactive xenon.
Xenon is a fission product which leaks through some of the holes
in the fuel cladding and gets into the coolant, and that s the
one that really required the--no, I m stating it wrong. They did
both.
Tritium, what did they do? They passed the gas over a
catalytic recombiner like what s used for exhaust of modern cars.
And there was enough air there to burn all the tritium. You
needed a catalyst because it s such a low concentration. The
catalyst was platinum and it recombined with tritium into water
and the water could be condensed out. Then it s easy. Then the
volume of that is small, and that s treated as low level waste.
It doesn t necessarily go directly to the atmosphere. So you
removed the tritium from the exhaust gas.
The xenon is more difficult. The Germans developed a
charcoal adsorber in which you pass the gas across activated
charcoal. It s about the size that could fill almost this living
room, maybe six feet tall. And the high-molecular-weight gas has
a surface absorption reaction with the charcoal. It sticks with
it for a certain time. And they designed that so it would stick
with the charcoal for maybe about thirty days, which was long
enough to cause the decay of all of the xenon.
Both of those processes, which are now commonly used
throughout the world, are things that were done to control
environmental releases. And this is just an example. There are
so many different kinds of environmental releases--! could talk
for hours on this releases of things like radioactive cesium to
the cooling water. And if this is cooled by water from a river,
like the Columbia River, or water from the ocean, like Diablo
Canyon, the calculated concentration in the cooling water was
below the allowed water concentration limits. But many people
pointed out that some of those limits did not properly account
for the possible uptake of the radioactivity from mollusks--
mainly sea urchins, clams, oysters--and that there was a
potential danger much greater than that.
Wilmsen: From concentration in the food chain.
67
Pigford: That s right. I was delighted to see these new concerns get
brought up and dealt with. And I can say the industry has a good
record. I can fault them by not initiating all of that
themselves and simply saying we rely on the government
concentration limits, and yet I can understand their point of
view. We re not in the business ourself of deciding what s safe.
That s the government s operation. They are part right, and part
wrong. But at least we ve learned that they must be more alert
to these needs.
It s hard to get across. A designer wants to have a design
goal, he gets it, he says that s the official goal, he designs
for it, puts in a "factors of safety" for uncertainty, and
expects that to be accepted. But that s not real life, and it
costs the industry a lot of money in trying to adhere too quickly
to that design approach. [tape interruption for telephone call]
It s been one of my principal activities throughout the years. I
was mainly in the design of reactors for many years, which got me
into a lot of physics, mechanical engineering, and environmental
control. And I m still active in that.
68
III THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA: STARTING AND CHAIRING A NEW
NUCLEAR ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT, 1959-1964
An Invitation to Start the Nuclear Engineering Department at the
University of California at Berkeley. 1959
Wilmsen: Yes, I want to come back to that later, I think. I wanted to ask
you about coming to the University of California in 1959. How
did it come about that you were asked to come to Cal and start
the nuclear engineering department here?
Pigford: Oh, that idea was initiated while I was at General Atomic. We
had built this wonderful laboratory in La Jolla and it became
kind of a watering place, a visiting place, especially for
physicists and chemists. It was a constant through-point for
some of the most famous people in the world. We had Glenn
Seaborg there during the summerfor the whole summeron
workshops that we originated. Edward Teller, Hans Bethe.
Seaborg was a former chancellor and a Nobel Prize winner in
chemistry and so forth.
Well, Seaborg and I had community of interest because he s a
chemist and I was a chemical engineer. And he had developed in
the laboratory at Berkeley, Oilman Hall, the process that was
used to separate plutonium from discharged nuclear fuel at
Hanford. As I mentioned last time I had gotten into that area
many, many years later at Oak Ridge, working on a much improved
process, the purex. And the first book that Benedict and I wrote
for my teaching was on Nuclear Chemical Engineering, and some of
the chapters dealt with that. The first edition of that book had
already been published about the time I went to General Atomic.
So Seaborg and I became good friends.
I also became good friends with Teller. Teller was on a
committee to search for a person to come in and head nuclear
engineering. And whether Seaborg suggested me to Teller or
69
Teller thought it was a good idea and consulted Seaborg, I never
learned.
There were a few other people on that committee who had been
formed for that purpose, among them Kenneth Pitzer who was then
dean of chemistry. He might have been involved in some way with
the General Atomic work, but it was mainly those two contacts
that I can remember.
Well, let s see, I ve gotten things backward. Even before
that laboratory had gotten started, I had been invited to come
out to Berkley to give seminars and lectures on what we were
doing at MIT. It may be the first time I came out was as early
as 1954 or "55. There was kind of an amorphous group of people
who were interested in nuclear engineering but they hadn t formed
a department then. And so that s how my contacts first got
started, but I never thought seriously about coming to Berkeley
until I talked to Seaborg and Teller.
Wilmsen: What did they do to convince you, or that made you think more
seriously about coming?
Pigford: Well, it was mainly Seaborg. I d already learned enough in my
MIT days that there s a lot of politics in a university, although
I was still to learn that there was more than I ever realized.
And having the chancellor personally on your side is bound to
make a lot of difference.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: I had in my mind some new ideas, new ways of starting a
department, new groups of people, and I was convinced that
Seaborg was going to support me for whatever my ideas were. I
hadn t really thought about leaving MIT, and I was very happy
there, but it was a novel opportunity.
Wilmsen: Yes. I want to come back to hat, but I m curious why UC had
decided at that time to start a nuclear engineering department.
That seems kind of late in the game.
Pigford: Yes. I said I came out I think in 1955, and I found a lot of
interest then, not specifically with the department, but in the
subject and what could be done with it. Well, why not earlier?
In 1952, when we started at MIT, we were certainly not the first.
It was buzzing throughout the country.
One speculation is that engineering at Berkeley was in a
turmoil in those days. This was not to disparage engineering at
Berkeley, but it had been developed, and quite well, under the
70
concept that engineering is basically one field. They still
basically have that concept at UCLA. The two leaders in that
concept were Michael O Brien and [Llewellyn] Boelter. Boelter
became dean at UCLA and O Brien dean at Berkeley.
That concept sprang up early at Berkeley, and continued
through the 1940s. But the emergence of highly specialized
fields and the introduction of a large amount of science in
engineering that was a natural offshoot of World War II, there
was more introspection: What are we, therefore; and what can we
do to bring in these new people who are maybe not engineers? I
was considered an engineer, so that wasn t my problem, but the
whole atmosphere was buzzing: We need to change our ways. They
weren t about to drop engineering. They weren t about to start
departments, I should say, because Berkeley and UCLA were noted
throughout the country for being this broad field of engineering.
Also, people felt it wasn t working. Then by the time they
got around to talking to me, there was some strong dissention
between Michael O Brien and maybe with the chancellor. I never
knew enough about it .
I think at least in nuclear engineering, Glenn Seaborg felt
he needed to step in and at least do something about nuclear
engineering. In fact, he stepped in farther, and they set up
departments all throughout the campus in engineering. Now
they re department heads rather than heads of various groups--
officially departments. There s a lot of autonomy in each
department .
So I think that whole melting pot--a very healthy era of
soul searching as to how should we go about the future led to
trying to solve those problems rather than getting on into
nuclear engineering, which would have been an enormous departure
from their previous stand. That s my speculation.
Establishing the New Department: Opportunities and Challenges,
and the Need for a Research Reactor
Wilmsen: Then you were department chair from 1959 to 1964. What were your
goals?
Pigford: I was chairman also two other times.
Wilmsen: Right. I m trying to keep this somewhat chronological.
71
Pigford: Sure.
Wilmsen: You mentioned you had some new ideas about starting a department?
What was it you wanted to do differently in starting the
department here at Cal from what you had done at MIT?
Pigford: Well, I had been exposed to the excitement of really good science
and materials, and at MIT we didn t have anybody in materials at
that time. That was a mistake. And General Atomic, even though
their projects were not successful overall, their materials work
was excellent. So I wanted to have that as a strong part of the
department. And it became a strong part.
At MIT our first approach was for Benedict and I as chemical
engineers to learn the physics and teach the physics. I think
that was a healthy approach, but what I had seen in my consulting
work at General Atomic and other activities was that if you can
find them, if you can find a good physicist who is interested in
working on that kind of applied problems, and those are rare,
they are so much more facile in mathematics, for example, than we
were. Nowadays many good engineers can rival the physicists in
mathematics. In those days I didn t see that, and so I wanted to
strengthen that part of it. I guess those were the two main
things .
Then I also wanted a strong central core, which in my own
view had been molded by my MIT experience, that you needed a
certain kind of system engineering at the center of it to unite
it all together. I was supposed to be one of those, and I needed
some more people like that. And we made some mistakes, as you
always do, but we got some very good people, and the department
established itself as being strong along those lines I ve
described.
Wilmsen: Were there any particular opportunistic moments or opportunities
that came along that perhaps you hadn t expected or things that
really helped you in getting the department going?
Pigford: Well, sure. When I talked to Seaborg and Teller and Teller s
committee about coming there, I pointed out that you had to have
a lot of laboratory. Doing these things just on paper is too
sterile. And they said they have just the solution as there was
the laboratory out at Livermore. Teller was the head of
Livermore at that time and he could arrange declassif ication and
so forth and provide for all the wonderful things we could do.
Well, they thought that was a good opportunity.
I told them I didn t think so because it s an hour s drive,
and my experience is that in a true university environment if
72
your students don t have a laboratory within a few minutes walk,
it doesn t work. It gets separated. Even at the University of
Michigan the new laboratory they built for nuclear engineering
was far enough from the campus, maybe a half hour drive, that
that was a major problem. You couldn t have the intermingling
with other students, which is the number-one thing you look for:
intermingling with other students.
Wilmsen: Do you mean other engineering students, or just other students?
Pigford: Other students. That was the great opportunity at Berkeley
because there s more intermingling there than there is at MIT.
Wilmsen: Why is it that there s more at Cal than MIT?
Pigford: Well, partly, MIT is so dedicated toward good engineering they
help you get started towards that, and if you respond, you become
more focused, but that s also a trap. Berkeley doesn t do that,
which means that its engineering is not as good as MIT s is. And
yet I think that the development of the individual, his
education, is much better. But that s a value judgment that s
arguable. So I can t say which one is better, although I guess I
do conclude that you ve got to mingle. And at Michigan, just
losing mingling with other engineering students is a major
problem.
So back to the question: my reaction was puzzlement. But I
told Seaborg that I needed to build a laboratory and a central
part of it would be a research reactor, not the kind that some
universities were putting up like Stanford where you can only
demonstrate things. Demonstrations are maybe okay for lecture
hall lectures, but not for research.
ii
Pigford: So in other words, I wanted a reactor that can be used for real
research: measuring new things, to validate what we re doing in
theory, and so forth. And he says that s a tall order, that
campus space is treasured and limited, and we have just the place
out at the Richmond Field Station where they had built a naval
ship towing tank for naval architecture. And in fact, during the
early part of the cold war, Ernest Lawrence and Louie Alvarez
from the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory had proposed to build a
large reactor facility at the Richmond Field Station to produce
additional plutonium. Now I think it was a naive idea. They
finally tried to build at Livermore.
Richmond is a very congested community, but at least it
wasn t out of the question within the university system to do
73
something like that. But I asked them how long it takes to drive
to Richmond and they said it s a half hour. I said it won t do.
That led to lots of arguments that we had.
Seaborg wanted to support me and he said, "We have just the
thing. We have a brand new building project going on and you
know it s hard to get on the track for building a new building
with the state, but we could give you a large part of that
space." And I said, "Can you give me space with a commitment
that if I raise the funds, we can put a research reactor in the
basement?" He swallowed and said yes.
Before we came to that point we were shopping around, looked
at Strawberry Canyon, and that led to a lot of understandable
concern on the part of Ed McMillan, who was then director of the
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, because he had his eye on those
spaces up in Strawberry Canyon as places to expand LBL. And
they ve since expanded.
I wasn t much interested because LBL itself is too far from
the campus from my point of view. I had grown up really in my
educational work at MIT. Probably you ve never been there, but
it s a small campus, and in fact most of the departments are all
housed in just one enormous building. And it really works. In
spite of their focusing, you still profit from that closeness.
So Seaborg then offered me the space in Etcheverry Hall.
But that had to go by the Berkeley Campus Development Committee
called the BCD Committeewhich really looks over, approves, and
authorizes uses of new spacea very powerful and important
committee.
I knew I was going to be battling many people. Some members
of that committee were from biology and afraid of getting that
close to radioactivity, understandably. And every member of that
committee had to accept on some faith that we could handle it and
wouldn t let any radioactivity get over the campus beyond the
allowable limits, or that we knew enough about them to say they
will be far below the allowable limits. Or if they didn t accept
that, they could then say it s too big a chance to take.
Where we were going to put the reactor in the basement would
have a playing field right above it and a volleyball court, and
they were worried about the students getting exposed to
radiation. Those are real justified concerns and it took a lot
of explaining, discussion, and in the long run, support from the
chancellor.
Wilmsen: Ultimately were the emissions lower than the allowable limits?
74
Pigford: Yes. Yes, we did pretty well on that.
Wilmsen: Who were some of the people who raised these concerns?
Pigford: Hardin Jones who was in the Donner Laboratorya very fine guy,
very knowledgeable about ecological effects of radiation. He d
worked a lot with radioactivity in the Donner Laboratory, but we
were going to produce more radioactivity than anybody had ever
seen on the campus which is the nature of a reactor.
Sanford Elberg was the chairman and he, I know, was from one
of the humanities departments. At least he s in the College of
Letters and Science; I may be wrong about humanities. He was an
extremely fair person, and he insisted on giving me a fair
hearing and he didn t ride over anybody s objections or
questions, but we ironed it out.
Wilmsen: Was there any particular argument that ultimately swayed them or
was it just a lot of explaining?
Pigford: I don t know what persuaded them. I don t think anybody would
simply take the support of the chancellor as enough because, by
nature, the faculty would polarize itself against the chancellor
on a thing like this.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: Seaborg was very, very good.
Funding. Designing, and Using the Research Reactor
Wilmsen: Were there any other challenges that you faced in establishing
the program?
Pigford: Oh, sure. I had several new faculty positions to fill and we
wanted to fill them quickly. We wanted to get off to a good
running start.
We had to raise money to build a reactor. And already, as I
said before, for many years colleges throughout the country were
lining up to get on the list for supporting funds from the Atomic
Energy Commission. The funds were doled out by the National
Science Foundation and they had a solid calendar of when each
proposed project would get funded. And that was a pretty long
calendar. So we developed a proposal involving just almost any
conceivable group on the campus that could have some possible
75
interest, using radio isotopeswhich are plenty of people,
including the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratoryand we developed that
very quickly and were successful in getting that funded. We got
to the top of the list.
Wilmsen: How did you manage that?
Pigford: Well, I guess by contacting and welcoming many fine scientists
and engineers to participate. And it was a lot of money for
those days. It was about a million dollars, and it was all for
the reactor.
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
But the building had to be greatly modified. The whole
bottom floor wraps around a very large laboratorystill there
which is a self-contained room with its own ventilation and
ventilation control for safety. Very special, because if we were
to have a spill of radioactivity in that room, we would
immediately confine the air; it had double door access. If we
had a spill, all the air in it would be exhausted through
charcoal absorbers to purify it. So a lot of effort went into
being able to almost completely isolate that laboratory from the
closeness of the surrounding campus. And it was expensive. I
think the state probably put in an extra two million dollars.
The laboratory itself was more expensive than the reactor.
And of course there was a lot of backbiting in those days from my
colleagues in other departments. They didn t know me, and I was
pretty young then. I was only thirty-seven years old. But we
survived, and actually, in spite of the normal turf battles,
which are the most frequent kind of battles at the university, I
think we got along pretty well.
Did you have to have special staff on the experimental reactor?
Oh, yes. We had to have a full-time reactor supervisor, and two
reactor operators. Later, we had more than that because the
reactor was successful. It became popular for research, and in
fact, it also became very popular for research outside the
university. Lockheed, for example, on the peninsula was building
some electronic devices for satellites in the military program.
There s a lot of radiation in space that can wipe out a
semiconductor, and they found one of the best ways of qualifying
those devices as being sufficiently reliable was to come put them
near a reactor and expose them to nuclear radiation. They used
the reactor a lot, so we had to go into some around the clock
operation.
76
And then we had to have a dedicated health physicist, which
was unusual for the campus. There s a campus environmental
health and safety group which oversees health and safety in
laboratories and other things in campus operations, and we had to
go beyond the normal tradition and have one such individual
devoting full time to that facility. That required funds,
operating funds.
Wilmsen: Then how did you use the reactor as a teaching tool?
Pigford: Well, reactor demonstrations were always part of it. It s very
exciting to run a reactor, and this reactor was unusually safe.
You could blow out a control rod and it would simply heat up a
little bit and shut itself down. It incidentally was developed
by General Atomic and became the world-wide research reactor.
(That was not one of my projects there.)
So with a little bit of instruction, and after the students
had learned principles of reactor design, we could put them on
the control console. They could start it up and go through power
changes and even eject a control rod and watch the burst of
energy. And I think it was a good teaching tool, but as I said,
in my view, a minor purpose of the reactor was as a
demonstration.
Then we had people from all over the campus using it. We
had a hollow tube going through the eight foot thick concrete
shield and terminating right at the surface of the reactor, and
so nuclear particles like neutrons will escape from the reactor
and stream through this tube. It s a very powerful technique of
neutron diffraction. Actually, diffraction, which has been used
for years using x-rays to bounce off atoms in solid lattices in
solid materials, is the way of identifying solid structures. But
they are limited in x-ray diffraction because they re not able to
look at light elements like hydrogen very easily, or oxygen,
because it takes a lot of electrons in an atom to bend--dif f ract
--an x-ray.
With neutrons, those respond especially to light elements.
They brought in a whole new field for materials research. And
that s the kind of research that you see in solid-state physics
and materials science. We had a project funded by NASA which was
aimed at developing ion-propelled engines for space, where
instead of ejecting hot rocket fuel that s been burned, which is
the way they re propelled in space, now you have a device that
can ionize cesium--make it a gas, ionize it--and then with an
electric field, cause those ions to move rapidly out the rear
end. And that s far more efficient for long distance space
exploration, but it had several materials problems. To get to
77
the end of that story, one of them involved learning how long one
of the electrodes could last before it became destroyed by the
equivalent of corrosion--we call it ablation--and so we took one
of the electrodes and exposed it to neutrons, made it radioactive
and then exposed it to the ion generator. Measuring the amount
of radioactivity coming off in even a short time, gave an
extremely sensitive measure of corrosion rate, ablation rate-
much more so than using traditional chemical techniques.
Also, the people in the Donner Laboratory were interested in
biological effects on small animals like mice.
Wilmsen: Donner Laboratory?
Pigford: That s part of the Lawrence Berkeley laboratory [LBL] , but it s
on campus.
So in designing the reactor, we even designed a fairly
sizeable room inside the shield. You could put a cage of animals
there, then crank the reactor down to the end of the water tank
it s in, and it could expose those animals to radiation. Then
they would take them back to the laboratory and study the
biological effects. So it serviced a lot of people.
Wilmsen: Now eventually it was shut down, through, wasn t it?
Pigford: Yes.
Wilmsen: Why was that?
Pigford: This was during my third five-year term as department chairman.
The reactor was no longer adequately serving the campus programs
of teaching and research. It was still very popular with LBL,
and of course many people would say there are students involved
there, but in the 1980s LBL was mainly professional staff with
not many students, so I couldn t make the academic argument.
The work from Lockheed was still growing. The reactor was
making lots of money for us, because we would charge Lockheed,
for example, and charge LBL, but we could see that its use in the
academic program for researchnot demonstrations, but for
research- -was greatly diminished. And I pointed this out to
[Mike] Heyman, who was the chancellor then. He was either vice
chancellor or later chancellor, but I think it was when Heyman
was chancellor that I pointed out to him that he should know
this: we were happy with the income, but it was no longer a major
part of our academic program. I knew that the campus was always
looking for space and I said I had concluded, and most of my
colleagues agreed, that the way our academic program had
78
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
materialized, its use for research within the department and
campus was not very large anymore and that I thought that we
should either make it a service facility to continue what it was
actually doing, but administratively decouple it so it could run
a little more efficiently, or get rid of it. But that would be
very expensive. And we got an estimate and I gave Heyman the
quote--! can t remember if it was two or three million dollars-
expecting him to say we shouldn t touch it.
a bargain.
Instead he said it s
He was very fair. I don t think he was motivated by the
frequent anti-reactor demonstrations, because we d learned to
live with those and it didn t hurt us academically, but the cost
of high tech laboratory space on the campus is enormous and if he
could free up that much space, he could show, I think, that it
was worth doing, and so we did it.
And when was that? What year? Approximately.
When we look at the last year I was chairman was when we made the
decision. [looking through papers] It s not in this. Whatever
the last year was that I was chairman. Probably about 1987 or
1988.
Wilmsen: Well, I can look that up on your CV. 1
Pigford: Yes. We made the decision and then after I retired from the
chairmanship, the chancellor asked me to take over the project of
seeing that the reactor got decommissioned and dismantled. And
this was a big project a lot of safety issues and so forth. I
organized the decommissioning project and got it started. It
took several years.
Working with Chancellor Seaborg, and Relations with Other
Academic Departments
Wilmsen: What was it like working with Glenn Seaborg?
Pigford: Oh, a delight. He s just a wonderful person. He d go out of his
way to do anything for you.
Wilmsen: And you mentioned that you had pretty close ties with other
departments like chemistry and physics?
Professor Pigford s last year as chairman of the department was 1988.
79
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Oh, yes, yes. Also, in material science and engineering- -
mechanical engineering, electrical engineering- -and having those
close ties was part of the reason I came to Berkeley.
Now, one thing I m kind of curious about is sometimes in social
science departments, people who do applied research are sometimes
kind of treated like second class citizens. I was wondering if
that applied as well in basic science fields.
Oh, sure. Well, first nuclear engineering is not a basic science
in the term we use academically.
That s what I mean, yes.
You would say physics. Physics would be a basic science. But
yes, the physicists by very nature look down on engineers. And
we look down upon the physicists, although somehow I don t think
we put ourselves on as steep a pinnacle as they do. When I look
at and try to understand some of the work that some of the Nobel
Prize winners in physics do, especially in theoretical physics--!
can understand experimental physics better than theoretical
physics--it s just baffling to me. And I respect it. Within our
department there s also that kind of hierarchy. Nuclear
engineering was off to a blazing start and was looked upon with
great envy as the new boy on the block, getting enormous
expectations, but a lot of intercampus rivalry.
Nowadays, with the loss of the economic competitiveness of
nuclear power, which is the main thing, in my view, that s not
well understood by the public--! m no longer excited about that
kind of nuclear engineering; the excitement has worn off. It s
time for change, and they are changing things. There s really
essentially a whole new bunch of faculty. They ve got some
wonderful ideas, and I wish them the best. I d be in there
working, too, except you find you need some young blood.
How did those kind of hierarchies effect the department when you
were chair?
Like with other departments?
Yes.
We got more than people thought we deserved because, as I say,
were on a pinnacle from the beginning, and we used that very
strongly. Is that what you mean?
we
Wilmsen: Yes.
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Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford;
And somehowand I ve often questioned the wisdom of this--I also
got on so many committees, like committees to revamp
environmental health and safety for the campus. I guess they
assumed this young guy coming in has some sort of secret and
we ll let him solve other problems. And they were fine, but they
took a lot of time.
I served on the committee on privilege and tenure, which is
a terribly sensitive committee. That s where you hear cases of
complaint among the faculty or against the faculty. And I was
kind of overwhelmed by too much interaction, really.
Shall we stop
Well, we re just about at the end of this tape,
there for today?
Is this a good stopping point?
I think so.
All right.
I have a bit more to cover next time. Actually I m pretty much
done with the founding of the department. I wanted to ask you
about your research that you initiated on the diffusion of
fission gases, and about the Bodega Bay controversy. And we can
do that next time.
Okay, the research topic was essentially the first one I was
involved in that I can remember here. And Bodega Bay I really
was not involved in. You d think I would have been, but I hadn t
gotten in the prominent safety analysis and public concerns that
I did later on. The Bodega Bay controversy was already well
under way before I came. I can give you my views on it, but they
do not reflect any direct involvement.
Major Research Programs in the Department at Cal. and the
Founding of the American Nuclear Society
[Interview 3: October 14, 1999] ##
Wilmsen: Today is October 14, 1999. This is the third interview with
Thomas Pigford. [tape interruption] I wanted to start today
actually with a question about how it came about that you co-
founded the American Nuclear Society.
81
Pigford: Well, it was in the early fifties, my guess is sometime maybe in
1954 or 55 when we were in the business of teaching nuclear
engineering at MIT and the field was growing. So many of the
people in the field decided it was a promising enough field and
growing enough that it should have its own professional society.
I wasn t one of the organizers, but I was invited to be
present and to participate in developing the charter. That was
done at some national meeting, probably in Chicago, and from
there a charter was developed. People could join and they paid
dues and they started electing of f icers--the things that a normal
professional society does.
Wilmsen: Did you start publications in association with the society?
Pigford: Did I start publications?
Wilmsen: Well, I assume the society started publications.
Pigford: Yes, I see what you mean. The society didn t initiate it right
away. Some professional journals had a monthly news edition
about activities in the profession. Then it had a technical
journal called Nuclear Science and Engineering that came out
monthly. I started publishing in that, although I and my
colleague had already been publishing in journals of the American
Institute of Chemical Engineers, so we weren t without a place to
publish.
But the society grew rapidly and became a very viable
society. It s not as large as, say, the equivalent professional
societies in mechanical engineering or chemical engineering
because it s still a more specialized field.
Wilmsen: Last time we talked about how you started the nuclear engineering
department at Cal. I wanted to talk a little bit more about
those early years at Cal. I guess I ll start with what were the
major research programs in the department?
Pigford: There was a research program on what we called the physics
principles of designing nuclear reactors, namely, how does the
chain reaction get started and how you can calculate when you
have enough material to reach criticality. That s a very
sophisticated field of applied mathematics, and that was very
attractive to the faculty and students because it s a strange
thing about nuclear reactions: you can predict their rate of
reaction much more precisely than you can with chemical
reactions.
82
Already that had become evident during the Manhattan Project
during the war, where some of the world s greatest physicists
were engaged in trying to predict what it took to make an atomic
bomb. They developed many very sophisticated mathematical tools
to do the prediction and that led to the need for high speed
computers to do the calculations that these mathematic equations
would specify. That led to the development of the modern digital
computer.
And so our research in that was a continuation of what we
taught in the class to students about these mathematical
principles. Every aspect of it had some challenging problems
that had not yet been worked on. When you build a nuclear power
reactor, you put a lot of things in the reactor to extract heat
and make it last a long time that aren t at all present in the
atomic bomb. It s a much more complicated system, and that took
a lot of research to advance the field.
We had one specialist in that, Professor Harvey Amster, who
came to us from the Westinghouse Bettis Laboratory which was the
laboratory set up by the Navy but operated by Westinghouse to
develop design techniques for designing nuclear submarines. He
brought some of those techniques and was very sophisticated and
had many ideas on further improvements. That was one area of
research.
Then another area was on what we called a nuclear fuel
cycle, which includes designing the reactor. It also includes
carrying out the many other operations that are required to make
the whole system work. For example, the uranium has to be
enriched in the isotope
235
U. Natural uranium is really not very
useful in nuclear power reactors, or even in naval reactors. So
separating the isotopes of heavy elements, of a heavy element
like uranium, was engaged by the Manhattan Project because one of
their parallel approaches was to make highly enriched 235
U and
make bombs from it. That was successful and that was the
Nagasaki bomb.
We taught the principles of that to our students, and that
was a whole new set of mathematical equations that had been
developedsome of themduring the war. We had to modify those
as new ideas came up, and that led to the research on isotope
separation. Similarly, there was research on chemical
processing, especially chemical separations of discharged fuel
that comes out of reactors.
During the war years, the Manhattan project worked on that,
mainly carried out by Professor [Glenn] Seaborg on the Berkeley
campus, where they dissolved irradiated uranium- -uranium that had
83
been in a reactor--in acid, worked out techniques of purifying
the plutonium- -separating the uranium and separating the highly
radioactive fission products which became high level waste.
Well, those techniques developed during the war did the job
but they were very inefficient. They made enormous quantities of
waste, and so in the 1950s there was a national effort to develop
new techniques which could make cleaner separations, reduce the
waste volume, and recover more of the uranium and plutonium, and
for the nuclear fuel cyclethe commercial fuel cycleto
eventually recycle those. That was an active research program.
Wilmsen: Where did the impetus for that national effort come from?
Pigford: After the war?
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: The impetus for having a complete fuel cycle for commercial power
reactors. In those days it was expected that reprocessing would
be a major part of that. In those days they expected the breeder
reactor to be the foremost power reactor, and to make a breeder
reactor you need plutonium, and to get plutonium you need to
recover that from the spent fuel from light-water reactors.
It turned out that the breeder program was not all that
successful in terms of its timing and so it s on the back burner.
Wilmsen: You described it as a national effort, so was that something that
the government was promoting?
Pigford: Yes, because the government was devoting a lot of the efforts of
its laboratoriesnot Livermore, but Oak Ridge, and Argonne
[National] Laboratory in Chicago to developing the nuclear power
fuel cycle.
Wilmsen: Okay.
Pigford: We had research on that, and then there s the more specific area
of research on the nuclear materials problems: what makes a good
material for nuclear fuel in a reactor? It has to stand up to an
extremely intense environment of radiation. Fissions are going
on right in the nuclear fuel, the fission fragments cause lattice
displacements, they alter the properties of it. To be
economical, a nuclear fuel material in a reactor must last for
several years, and that s a very daunting requirement. That was
one of our major research programs at Berkeley and it still is.
And it wasn t just on nuclear fuelling material. The metal
cladding, the metal envelop that surrounds the nuclear fuel rods,
also had to be corrosion resistant in the presence of high
temperature. It would receive intense radiation from the nuclear
fuel which was right adjacent to it. It would embrittle and tend
to crack, but it had to preserve the separation between the
coolant and the fuel material itself, and that was a tough
problem.
Another research program we carried out was related to the
space program. This was well after Sputnik, but only a few years
later, and so there was a national effort to develop all sorts of
propulsion engines for space application.
One type called the ion propulsion was of interest for the
possible long range journeys in space, like going to Mars. It
wasn t related to developing missiles that could go from United
States to Russia, which required chemical propellants, but this
ion engine could use electricity generated by a compact nuclear
power reactor. That electricity would ionize an alkaline metal
such as cesium, which is easily ionized, and then it would
accelerate the cesium ions using electrostatic potentials, so
they discharged from the propulsion end of the rocket. They
could be discharged so rapidly, so much more so than the products
of a chemical reaction, that this could be a very efficient
propulsion engine.
But it had many, many, new problems, and we had a research
program carried out for NASAthe National Aeronautics and Space
Administrationand part of it was related to materials, these
ions of cesium. Some of them would strike the solid surface and
cause sputtering of the material from the surface, which would
contaminate the environment and reduce the efficiency. So we
used a nuclear research reactor to study the sputtering process,
which is one of the specific materials problems.
Then we had research in nuclear instrumentation to do
experiments that would be involved in developing new types of
power reactors. You needed instruments to measure the neutrons,
their fluxes and intensity, and to measure the gamma rays. It
would be desirable that they be very compact and could go into
small holes in the whole assembly. Some of our people worked on
developing new and better detection techniques.
We had some research related to nuclear fusion. This was
initiated by Professor Robert Pyle. It was fairly basic, to
study the fusion reaction. They were using some experimental
facilities at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory on that.
85
We had research in what we call health physics: What are the
biological effects of nuclear radiation? For example, some of
the industries and the national laboratories were beginning to
work on plutonium fuels with the prospect of future use in
breeders or future use as plutonium-recycling power reactors. It
emerged that plutonium oxide would be a likely candidate for
those fuels, even though it was not used in making weapons. Then
it turned out that if you re working with plutonium oxide, that
creates a new health hazard because it s easily fragmented into
finely divided particles and if they get into the air, they can
easily be transported as an aerosol. When people breathe them,
the particles can lodge into the lung tissues. When plutonium
decays radioactively , it emits a helium nucleus called an alpha
particle, and that damages surrounding tissue. It stops very
quickly in the surrounding tissue, but it imparts a lot of energy
to the few clusters of molecules of the tissue itself and that
can give localized tissue damage and could cause lung cancer.
That was a new area of health physics that had come up.
We teamed up with a person--Dr. Patricia Durbin--at the
Donnor Laboratory on the campus, which is really a part of the
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory. She was doing experiments in her
animal facility on tracing the transfer of plutonium into the
body from the lungs. Even though it s a tiny solid particle, it
can move through the lung tissue and get into the blood stream,
and she was studying the effect on animals, finding where the
plutonium goes.
Turned out it goes, in that case, finally to the lymph
nodes. Usually you think of plutonium going to the bones. A
graduate student and I were interested in what we call transport
modelingcalculating the rate at which various radioisotope
species could transport through the air and water. With Patricia
Durbin s help (it was a joint project), we applied it to the
transport of plutonium particles in the human body and were able
to calculate how much of that plutonium would end up in the lymph
nodes and what the biological damage would be. That became the
first measure, scientific measure, of how much aerosol--f inely
divided particles of plutonium oxide could safely be breathed
into the lungs .
Those are a few examples of the research. We also had
research on basic nuclear reactions themselves. We had one on
the energy states in the nucleus. That had been a research topic
back in the days of the 1930s and forties, and in those days it
was in the province of physics. But physics had moved on beyond
that area into much, much higher energies, and so what was called
nuclear physics became the province of the chemists and the
engineers and some of our faculty were doing that kind of
86
research on nuclear physics, studying the energy states and
transition levels in the nucleus. Those are some examples.
Probably I ve done a lot of people a disservice, but those
are some examples that come to mind. Oh, yes, another important
area is the extraction of heat. Coolant, going through a nuclear
power reactor has to extract heat very efficiently and rapidly.
That s why it s popular in many reactors to use liquid sodium or
water. We ve talked about that before.
When the idea came along to let the water itself boil inside
the reactor, then the steam could go directly to a turbine,
thereby eliminating the need for an intermediate heat exchanger,
where, in the naval reactors, steam is generated. The details of
the boiling phenomena became very important because how much of
the coolant space is occupied by liquid and how much by vapor?
It s all churning around and being pumped through. Knowing the
amount that s still liquid is necessary to do the neutron physics
calculations because the neutrons are moderated by the liquid
water. That introduced a fascinating combination of neutron
physics and heat transfer and our research led by Professor
Virgil Schrock specialized in that.
Collaboration on Research. Edward Teller, Competing for Grants,
and the Cold War
Wilmsen: What kind of collaboration was there with other departments like
chemistry and physics? You mentioned Patricia Durbin.
Pigford: Well, I was the faculty member collaborating with Patricia
Durbin.
Wilmsen: Oh, you were?
Pigford: Yes, but I had worked in transport analysis as a chemical
engineer; I was nothing but a dilettante in the area of health
physics, but we worked together. The studies on nuclear physics,
energy levels, were in collaboration with the people at the
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory who were then called nuclear
chemists .
And some of our students had just the right interest. They
weren t worrying about the frontiers of high-energy particle
physics, the areas of research by pure physicists. Our students
were more interested in the details about nuclear fission, the
nucleus that were still emerging, and its applications. We
87
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
collaborated with the nuclear chemists and metallurgists at the
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory in the study of nuclear fuel
materials which I initiated. And that was the first doctoral
research project I supervised.
There we were studying uranium carbide, which is a possibly
better nuclear fuel than the new fuel of uranium dioxide.
Although, it turns out finally that we realized uranium dioxide
is better for most applications than uranium carbide. I was
particularly interested in how much of a fission gas is made
during exposure in a reactor, and how much would escape as
radioactive gas out into the coolant, which could be a major
problem because those radioactive gases tend to get into the
environmentthough not all of them. And in that research I
collaborated to some extent with people in material science, who
would be in ceramics and would be experts on things like uranium
carbide .
What was your student s name in that?
That student was Hagai Shaked, a student from Israel. When he
graduated, he went back to Israel and worked at their nuclear
research laboratories.
Wilmsen: Now you mentioned last time that you were good friends with
Edward Teller.
Pigford: Yes.
Wilmsen: Did you do collaborative research with him as well?
Pigford: No, not really. He would not call it his research. He is a
great physicist and his research interest in physics would lie in
the much higher energy level region that the physicists were
interested in. But he also had a practical interest and he, like
many great physicist like Hans Bethe at Cornell, had been
involved in the applications of nuclear reactions where they had
worked in the Manhattan Project during the war. And they
continued to enjoy the involvement with nuclear applications like
nuclear power reactors or reactors for space, as that field
emerged, and they did so as consultants.
Teller and I would find ourselves consulting together for
some industrial laboratory, also with Hans Bethe. There, each of
us was applying his own skills and background towards trying to
solve the problem that our client was working on. And it was a
lot of fun because I found that both Teller and Bethe really had
the instincts of great engineers.
88
In fact, Teller had been trained as a chemical engineer in
Hungary before he became a physicist. His father wanted him to
be sure that he had a good job, and just like my father, he
thought engineering was a great field.
**
Pigford: Evidently, Edward Teller s deep interest in physics emerged and
took over, and he became one of the world s great physicists.
Then as he was director of the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory at
the time I came to Berkeley to be on the faculty, his laboratory
did have some applied projects they were working on--for example,
nuclear reactors to propel space vehicles, rockets and we
frequently interacted on those projects--!, as a consultant.
And through the years he liked to develop his own ideas of
how the application should go. He is a brilliant man, a very
fast thinker, and he calls me up and asks me what I think.
Usually I tell him that I think his ideas show wonderful
imagination but are not very practical. And that must be the
reason he calls me up, to have that different point of view. We
have worked through the years on this, off and on, not very
closely.
And I ve worked with other physicists like him. Let s see:
Hans Bethe, Freeman Dyson at Princeton Institute of Advanced
Study. I mentioned before that Teller was a member of the search
committee that Seaborg, the chancellor, had set up to find a head
of nuclear engineering. So when I ran into problems, when I
first came to Berkeley, he was then still on the faculty. I
would consult him as well as others.
Then, I hadn t been at Berkeley very long before a new issue
came up with Teller. He saw as head of the Livermore Laboratory
a need for some invigoration of new ideas that were not just
making weapons. He wanted to do it by having students
participate at Livermore, so he proposed to set up a special
graduate program there called the Institute of Applied Science
which would be applied physics, mathematics, chemistry. Its
makeup would be very similar to our new department of nuclear
engineering, although we had more engineers. He never thought
much about the engineers, but the work that our faculty on the
campus were doing would be similar to what he imagined this group
at Livermore would do.
He ran into a lot of resistance within the faculty at
Berkeley when he proposed this be an offshoot or an off-campus
academic unit under the Berkeley campus. It was also viewed as a
threat to a new department of nuclear engineering. I wasn t
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Wilmsen:
Pigford:
opposed to it because I had a great admiration for what he did,
knew that he could make a good program, and I expected there
would be room for everybody. He wanted us to participate with
him, but I had a strong feeling that an hour s drive away is too
far to result in any real cooperation academically. Even going
up the hill to the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory creates a
separation which is not healthy.
His biggest resistance came from other parts of the campus
where people thought he was simply trying to do everything in one
department. I remember one meeting, people from the humanities
were saying this campus offers even to your science students and
engineering students the university environment: humanities,
music, arts, and so forth. And that s why some departmentsmost
departments- -want to be on the campus.
But Teller frequently does not anticipate such questions.
He should have, but he improvised in this wayand he s a very
fine pianist, incidentally. He plays, even though he has one bad
foot. He plays Mozart beautifully, and his answer to the
committee was, "I will play for them." That s the way they would
get their humanities. Well, I think that, among other things,
helped to sink his proposal to be part of the Berkeley campus.
He then took his proposal to the Davis campus. They were
much more hungry for the kind of affiliation, identification he
could provide and so they officially set up what became the
Department of Applied Science, under Teller, as a branch of the
Davis campus. I don t think the interaction between the two is
very much. And they still have that department there.
Was there much competition for grant monies for all the various
research programs you described?
Yes, because, for example, I and my colleague Donald Olander,
Professor Olander, were working in nuclear materials. Then the
people in the department of Mineral Engineering and Material
Sciencethat was the name of that department, which was a well
established department felt that we would be competing with them
for grant money. And we would. We did. It turned out that we
were both successful, so I think competition doesn t hurt
anybody.
I think the research in nuclear physics didn t get much
grant money and it became more of an arm of the Lawrence Berkeley
Laboratory. I expected a lot of feeling of competition with
mechanical engineering. Here we established a major program in
fluid mechanics and heat transfer related to the boiling-water
reactors, and, well, they had enough work themselves to go
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around. They re a very fine department, and so the competition
was not at all unhealthy.
Wilmsen: What kind of impact did the cold war have on the research
programs? Obviously it had a huge impact on military
applications of nuclear power and nuclear weapons, but what about
the civilian applications of nuclear research?
Pigford: Well, we weren t drawn into that. We could have modified our
program to get more into the cold war applications but we didn t.
We were still focussed towards the civilian applications. It
tended to close off contact between our program and similar ones
at other universities, and between university programs of nuclear
engineering and some of the government laboratories. For
example, the Oak Ridge National Laboratory was supposed to be a
very broad research and development laboratory. A lot of its
work was necessarily devoted to solving problems related to the
new production reactors at Savannah River which were for the cold
war. And some of us had contacts through consulting, but the
problems we ran into there were not the sort we could easily
bring back home. Some of it we could, but not much, so
effectively the cold war tended to develop more isolation between
university programs and the government laboratories.
And I think that s true of Livermore, too. Weapons
development was their mainhas always been their main--forte,
and we haven t had any academic programs in connection with that.
Some have consulted on a weapons program, but not many.
Wilmsen: Why was Berkeley so focused on the civilian applications? You
said you could have gotten more connections with the military if
you d wanted to, so I m curious why you kept that focus so
strongly on the civilian side?
Pigford: Well, we wanted it to be open, unclassified, and not secret.
That itself is a major thing. We don t want our students to be
locked into a program that is secret. We believe in the civilian
applications in the long run, whereas this cold war we expected
would have its own shorter term life.
Wilmsen: Now how did Edward Teller feel about Communists?
Pigford: Oh, he hated them, mainly because he grew up in Hungary and there
was, as I ve learned, a Communist uprising there long before
World War II and apparently they did some terrible things to the
people. I don t know the history too well. I don t know if that
Communist development during the thirties was very successful.
And that s different from them having become Communist later when
after the war the Soviets took over. He hated the Communists,
91
and he was paranoid, really --still is, about the Communists. He
might say justifiably so, but at least it s an unusual level of
fear and hate.
The Nuclear Engineering Curriculum at Cal
Wilmsen: Shall we move on to teaching?
Pigford: Yes.
Wilmsen: Okay. How did the curriculum in nuclear engineering change over
the years?
Pigford: Well, the original curriculum was modeled pretty much after the
MIT curriculum except we injected also material science into it,
and health physics, which MIT didn t have.
How did it change? Well, the fusion program expanded. And
in addition to Robert Pyle, who was the first faculty member in
it, we added a new assistant professor, Ed Morse. That would
have been in the 1970s. (Pyle has died. Morse is still there.)
Then later we added Kenneth Fowler in the mid-1980s. Now Fowler
has retired and is no longer there, but the fusion program
strengthened through that time. Morse brought in a lot of
research funds and new research ideas, as did Fowler.
The work on boiling heat transfer and other kinds of special
heat transfer continued at a very steady progress, turned out a
lot of good work, and continues as such but under one faculty
member, Professor Virgil Shrock, and he s retired but still
active .
These various areas that we re talking about tended to have
usually one faculty member. It s unusual in a department to have
only one faculty member in your main areas. Usually you have two
or more faculty members in each main area. It was a small
department .
And materialsthe materials work under Olander became
really one of the best in the country and still is solidified. I
worry about what s going to happen to it when Olander retires.
The work in nuclear instrumentation seems to have gone down. Are
we talking about teaching?
Wilmsen: Yes. How the curriculum changed.
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Pigford: How the curriculum changed. More recently, say, in the last five
yearsmore than five years--my observation since I ve retired,
and I m not very active in the department, is that the department
is recognizing at last that it needs to change its curriculum.
We were for decades centered towards peaceful applications and
nuclear energy, especially for commercial nuclear power. As I
mentioned once before, it became evident to me in the late
seventies that that field was, for academic work, not very
promising. We like to think that we turn out students who want
to do research and development in industry or in other places and
work on new ideas towards the ultimate application we re
interested in, and if you re not developing any new nuclear power
reactors, there s no good place for our graduates to work. So
that emphasis has decreased. It s a big change. I had
introduced, in the late seventies, research in radioactive waste
disposal, which I forgot to mention as one of the department s
research programs. That research quickly blossomed to a main,
very big research program of the department before I retired and
it s still fairly active. At the same time, the teaching moved
in that direction too.
Wilmsen: Is that the major emphasis of the department, now?
Pigford: I don t think they would call it a major emphasis, but that
emphasis has grown, and teaching about nuclear power reactors
themselves has decreased a lot.
Wilmsen: What are they preparing students for now, if the commercial
nuclear power side of things is more or less on the way out?
Pigford: Yes, well, there are plenty of jobs in waste disposal. And they
are emphasizing more and more the interaction with the
bioengineering program, which, as you probably know, is a new
push on the campus. There s a new department, and they ve even
gone into the field of tomography, which is doing scans on the
brain and on the rest of the body. These involve nuclear
reactions and so the development of instrumentation for that,
techniques of sensing the nuclear radiations and interpreting
them, is occupying more and more time.
Wilmsen: It s another connection to the health field.
Pigford: Yes.
Wilmsen: What were the major challenges and opportunities in the area of
teaching? I guess, starting back when you first started at Cal,
still talking about the department at Cal.
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Pigford: Well, the first major challenge was to develop a coherent
faculty. In those days you couldn t put together a department of
nuclear engineering by hiring graduates in nuclear engineering to
teach. There weren t any, or those would be just assistant
professors. We wanted a mature faculty quickly, so we hired
specialists in the areas I mentioned, and each of those
specialists had come from a specialist group doing that work at
other places, like the naval laboratories.
Well, we wanted to knit them together so they could feel
like nuclear engineers. We wanted the man teaching reactor
physics to understand the materials problems and vice versa, so
we initiated a plan that we would rotate teaching assignments and
theoretically hoped that every person on the staff and on the
faculty could teach every course in the department. That became
a severe burden on a few people but- -and we never went that far--
people began to be able to speak the same language. We would use
each other s class notes, and some books emerged from it. That
was the first major challenge.
We had to carefully bring in people from the outside who
were experts and try to translate what we learned from them
through seminars and curricula and so forth into things we felt
like teaching, so it s how to emerge a new field.
It was exciting. The students got caught up in that and
they needed that too because the students we took by and large
were not from undergraduate programs in nuclear engineering. We
started out as a graduate department, as most places did, so our
incoming students were from physics, mechanical engineering,
chemical engineering, chemistry, and we had to adapt our courses
to them so that they could develop the mathematics that was
needed, which is more than most engineering. Chemists don t have
much mathematics, usually, and the physicists had to learn some
practical thermodynamics and so forth and so on. So we had to
construct courses for the purpose of remedying the background
deficiencies. We didn t have enough time to teach them, give
them all the remedial courses, and then go on into the graduate
level, so that assimilation for the students was a major
challenge. It became easier many years later as undergraduate
programs originated and then that became a strong source of
graduate students.
I would say those are the major challenges. Oh, yes, we had
to define the standards. Being a graduate department, especially
at Berkeley, we were determined that our graduate students would
be at least as scholarly and as well trained as those other
departments, and so we introduced the technique that had been
used at MIT, through my years there as a student and a teacher,
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Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford;
Wilmsen:
of giving special written examinations to students who wanted to
be doctoral students. It s not used in many departments. In
many departments you pass your courses, then if you convince your
dissertation committee that you re qualified--! m oversimplifying
it--you get to be a doctoral student. Now we don t even call
them doctoral students unless they have passed a general
comprehensive written examination.
You mean other nuclear engineering departments in the country
don t require those qualifying exams?
That s true. And there are many departments at Berkeleyin
other fields that don t require it. Now many others, I must
say, may have it, but frequently that s an examination given by
the dissertation committee which is four or five people. You
don t get as clear a rigorous screening process that way. First,
if you do it along the way in your dissertation, it s hard to
fail a guy. You keep him on until he finally does it. We insist
that this screening be done before people have worked on a
dissertation and it be very objective, which means the entire
faculty submits questions and the entire faculty is involved in
the grading and decision on who passes and fails. That was a
major effort and still is, as far as I know, to be sure that our
doctoral students are selected of the kind that we think we must
have. It s kind of brutal because to the others we ll say you
can get a master s degree and that s it.
Did the faculty stay actively engaged with that process?
did they continue to all submit questions?
I mean,
Well, they did throughout my involvement with the department. I
don t know what they do now. It s a lot of work. We gave them
twice a year and the questions you write down are very searching
questions. Many of the faculty complain, but also it had a lot
to do with, again, cross-fertilization among the faculty because
we would see the kind of questions our colleagues were turning
out. When we got together on gradingone has to be very polite
and discreet, but you can sense it if your questions aren t
really up to the caliber of what these other guys are turning
out. So that was a major undertaking from the beginning and I
think it reaped good results. In terms of whatever measure there
is in quality, we had a good reputation for our productivity, and
as far as I know, still do.
Was there a high failure rate of students compared to- -well, I
guess if other departments around the country don t do that, I
guess it s hard to compare.
95
Pigford: MIT does it. Yes. We don t want a high failure rate. We prefer
everybody pass. I think occasionally everybody did, but usually
not. We did have failures, and that s higher than most places
have.
Wilmsen: How did the student body change over the decades? Did you find
you got more students, or decreasing interest or an increase in
interest?
Pigford: The interest has gone down. The quality has gone down. And
that s expected. When we started, we were the premier applied
science center.
Pigford: We were the premier applied science department at one time, and
so we attracted the top students. I think as the field has
matured, it has been a disappointment in many ways, that is,
mediocre quality. I think many of the nuclear engineering
undergraduate programs haven t turned out as good graduate
students as we d like. That s a problem because many of the
programs in nuclear engineering throughout the country have gone
by the wayside and so they are not turning out many graduates in
nuclear engineering, which reflects the kind of job market there
is. And that affects the quality.
Reflections on Citizen Activism at Bodega Bay, and Student
Activism in the 1960s
Wilmsen: I wanted to ask you about the Bodega Bay controversy, also, which
you said that you actually didn t have much involvement with, but
I was wondering if you could just kind of sum up what you thought
about that whole thing at the time.
*
Pigford: At the time?
Wilmsen: At the time, and now if it s different.
Pigford: Well, it s difficult without injecting my own value judgements
after the many years, but I was amazed to learn that PG&E wanted
to move so fast in building nuclear power plants. They had a
planning map that showed so many new nuclear power plants spotted
along the Pacific Coast of California. And they were serious.
Bodega Bay, I guess, was to be the first one.
96
They didn t have any clear guidance from government which in
those days would have been the Atomic Energy Commission, which
was the only regulatory guide. Any good guidance says what the
safety requirements would be, so they had to kind of develop it
themselves. And as I understand it, there was an earthquake
fault running right through the site, and part of their facility
would be spanning that fault. Well, I recall that they consulted
many structural engineers, and if you put enough reinforcing
steel in it and concrete, you can survive a displacement.
Wilmsen: That was their opinion.
Pigford: Yes, and they had some very qualified experts working on itmany
people in structural engineering on the faculty at Cal.
You have to be careful where you anchor it so that you don t
anchor it on both sides of the fault in a way that it tears
itself apart. You have to allow the motion to slide underneath.
And the farther along they got, they saw what a mammoth facility
this had to be. They still had the intent to build it.
Of course there are many people who just felt it wasn t the
right thing to do, and it was an important issue to argue because
out of this, and out of a few other various situations like it,
the AEC developed a criteria for safety for siting and so forth.
Wilmsen: So the discovery of that fault did have an impact on later
reactor design?
Pigford: Oh, yes. What happened is the person in charge of the rather
small staff at the Atomic Energy Commission in charge of
regulation safety finally took a stand and said, "We will not
allow it to span a fault." He said, "That will be the rule and
is the rule." And that was the proper thing to say. He wasn t
going to waste any more time about sliding structures that could
survive. No good. And it was the right thing to do and it took
a lot of courage and that s what settled it.
In hindsight it s easy to criticize PG&E. On the other
hand, they were going to build something that was brand new to
everybody. Why not build it to use the best technology for
structural integrity? A bridge spans a fault, and we find ways
of dealing with that.
It s easy to criticize them, and I do now, for being naive.
It was an example of the attitude that was prevalent especially
in the utility industry, which was really making the decisions:
shall we come up with the money and build a nuclear power plant?
The decision is not in the hands of the scientists or the
97
regulators, it s in the hands of the customer,
the design made and get safety approval.
Then you must get
They said, in those days, and I speak generically, "It s
just like another coal plant. It s a lot of steel, a lot of
concrete, we feed fuel into it, we look for high temperatures, we
make steam, and sell it."
Well, of course, it is not a coal plant. You don t have to
build a coal plant to such exacting specifications. A coal plant
is more easily repaired. You can shut it down and get at the
fault, whatever it is, and fix it. And so, to a large extent it
was a fault--mistake--of that attitude. And that attitude
persisted for years for yearson up into the eighties, I guess.
Maybe some people still have it. I don t know.
Wilmsen: I wanted to ask about the campus activism that was going on in
the sixties the Free Speech Movement and anti-Vietnam War
demonstrations and all that sort of stuff. What did you think
about that at the time?
Pigford: Well, you ll have to understand that most of that activism was on
the south side of the campus where social sciences are, and
whether it should be or not, the students involved in those kind
of programs thought more about what are their emerging problems
and interactions and opportunities in society. Engineering
students, on the north side of the campus, were said by the
south-side students to have blinders on. They re more dedicated
towards their profession. Their whole curriculum is focused
towards becoming an engineer. Whereas a humanities student would
say "becoming educated" is "my purpose". And so the engineering
students weren t much involved in the Free Speech Movement.
And I was troubled that they weren t, actually. I
frequently asked my students what do you think about these
things? Then as some of the merits of the south-side activism
became apparentand there were a lot of merits: certainly
updating curriculum, making them more pertinent, and making them
more humanistic; those apply to engineering as well- -we initiated
in our department, and I think some other engineering departments
did, some round table discussions with students about this. We
didn t stir up any great passions, I think, but we did benefit
from it.
We looked in the papers, and it looked like another world on
the other side of the campus. I think it s too bad it s that way
because I think both sides need more of the other.
Wilmsen: Were any of the faculty in your department actively involved?
98
Pigford: I don t think so, not in the sciences and engineering. I know
there were two or three people in physics who were actively
involved. One physics professor actually canceled classes, which
got him into a lot of trouble with the administration. I got
involved in that only in the sense that in those days I served on
what is called the Campus Committee on Privilege and Tenure where
if there is, say, a complaint against a faculty member, if it s
significant enough, it comes before that committee to adjudicate
it, and the administration s plan to discipline this professor
came before us.
Wilmsen: Was that over the Free Speech Movement, or the anti-Vietnam War?
Pigford: That was over the Free Speech Movement. He wasn t the only one.
A few people canceled classes, and we look upon meeting classes
as sacrosanct: you don t slight that.
Wilmsen: Yes, and how was that resolved in the committee?
Pigford: Well, there were several cases, actually, but some kind of
discipline was applied and I ve forgotten what it was. He wasn t
fired, for example. I ve forgotten what the reprimand was.
Something.
Wilmsen: How did you feel about how the administration handled the Free
Speech Movement?
Pigford: Well, they were naive. They just weren t prepared for it.
I admired Clark Kerr a great deal. He was a fine president
--unusually good. I don t know him well enough to know really
what he was feeling when he felt he must resign. I wished he
hadn t at the time because he s a man of great strength and I
think the whole situation would have come out better if he had
stuck with it. On the other hand, he could sure be frustrated
and discouraged that there seemed to be to him, I imagine, no way
to really bring resolution to it. And he was irritated with
pressures from the state administration.
Wilmsen: Would you say that the way you characterize the engineering
students and faculty involvement in the Free Speech Movement
applied to the anti-Vietnam War demonstrations as well?
Pigford: I think so. I think so. Of course, I remember the
demonstrations about Vietnam, but I don t recall those issues
affecting this, causing deep reviews of what we re doing with
students. I don t remember any reviews of curricula for example.
99
Wilmsen: Were you afraid of any sabotage of nuclear facilities like the
experimental nuclear reactor during those years?
Pigford: Not really.
Wilmsen: No?
Pigford: No, we had to build effectively an isolated experimental room-
enormous roomfor that reactor that could have its ventilation
closed off from the rest of the building in case we had a spill
of radioactivity in the room. To get into it, you had to go
through air-locked double doors which were under continued
surveillance by the police department electronically. So even
though we never designed it intentionally to be like a burglar
proof or terrorist-proof facility, it was.
100
IV EARLY INVOLVEMENT IN NUCLEAR SAFETY, THE ECONOMICS OF NUCLEAR
POWER, AND A CHANGE IN RESEARCH FOCUS
Member of the National Atomic Energy Safety Licensing Boards.
1963-1974
The Origin of the Boards
Wilmsen: Okay. I wanted to also ask you about your service on the
National Atomic Safety Licensing Boards. How did you become a
member of that board? That was in 1963?
Pigford: 1963. Yes. Well, the idea of having such boards originated from
Congress in the early sixtiesmaybe "61 or 62. They foresaw
the rapidly growing interest on the part of utilities in building
nuclear power reactors. The government was responsible for
regulating safety and protecting the health of the public.
The parallel approach in the federal government would be,
say, for example, to license a radio station. The owner of the
proposed station would apply for a license to own, operate, and
transmit over the air. There weren t many safety concerns in
that, but it would be reviewed very carefully for financial
competencethat would be one thing affecting the customers by
an administrative law judge, a lawyer.
In this case there s a whole bunch of lawyers who work for
the government as administrative lawyers. And that would be the
first legal decision on whether that license should be awarded.
They do that for television stations.
The Congress didn t want to put such a decision in the hands
of just lawyers, so it initiated a variation. There would be,
for each application, a board of three people to review the
application and all the defense of it. Safety would be a major
issuethe major issue. Those three people would make the first
101
legal decision as to whether that particular facility would be
safe if built according to the specifications.
Wilmsen: Was the emphasis on safety because there had, by that point, been
some accidents at nuclear reactors? There was one in England in
1957 or something, I think, and a couple of others.
Pigford: Yes. Of course, the one in England was not a nuclear power
reactor but it would be common sense to say there s not that much
difference. It was a real issue.
Already the public was beginning to be wary, as they should
be, of the potential damage from a nuclear power reactor. You
can simply calculate the amount of radioactivity in the reactor
and assume it gets spread over the surface of Earth- -how many
people it could affect. It s potentially enormous damage. And
so both the government and the industry- -mainly the government --
knew that this was coming and they had a job to do.
They even, in preparation for it, had a study done by one of
their laboratoriesthe Brookhaven National Laboratoryto
calculate what are the potential consequences from a major
nuclear power reactor accident. There they made rather extreme
assumptions of how much radioactivity could be distributed and
they calculated the exposure of people in the surrounding
community. The potential cost and loss of life was enormous.
Already the government was proposing, and the industry was
strongly supporting, the proposal that there be a federal
insurance policy for each reactor that would indemnify the owners
against such casualties. And once that became a matter of debate
in Congress, then the public began to wake up to the fact that
this is potentially a very big issue. So that s why the Congress
started this new approach.
Now it doesn t mean that this board was the first safety
group to review the safety. The Atomic Energy Commission had
already begun to build up its safety review staff for this
purpose. That consisted of a lot of people. Now it s under the
purview of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and they have, I
guess, around 7,000 people in that whole operation. It might
have been less than 100 at that time on the AEC staff. So it
wouldn t come before the board until the staff had concluded it
was safe, and usually it would take the staff three to four years
to complete its review of an application.
But the board was the first entity that would make a legal
decision on safety. Then that could be appealed by any party up
to the commissioners themselves which would act as a legal appeal
102
body and then to the federal district court and so forth. Such
appeals have been made and have gone all the way to the Supreme
Court.
-
So Congress dictated to the Atomic Energy Commission that
the commission should set up a national panel of scientists,
engineers, and lawyers to carry this out. Glenn Seaborg was the
chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission then. He had left his
chancellor s job. This was one of the first things that
confronted him and he already had a case.
Fermi- 1
Pigford: The Detroit Edison Companythe electric utility in Detroit,
Michigan, serving a large community of consumers- -was the one
that had decided it would go ahead and build a fast-breeder
reactor. I mentioned this previously. It became very
controversial, and already hearings had been carried out by a
lawyer, hearing examiner, and it had gone without even a decision
being made by the examiner. The case had been appealed to a
higher court for authority on jurisdiction. I think it went to
the Supreme Court, which then remanded it back to the Atomic
Energy Commission and said effectively, "Take out these other
issues and complete it," so Seaborg asked me to be the first
technical member on that board. Then he appointed an engineer
from Idaho to be the second one and we had an administrative law
judge as the chairman.
Wilmsen: What were their names?
Pigford: Samuel Jensch was the administrative law judge. He had been a
Harvard graduate, Harvard Law School. He clerked for the famous
Supreme Court justice, Felix Frankfurter. The technical member
was named Warren Nyer, and he d worked at the Idaho Nuclear
Laboratory. He had been a member of the team that had built the
first atomic pile, or first nuclear reactor, in a squash court at
the University of Chicago during the Manhattan Project, one of
Fermi s projects.
So we three carried out the hearing. The utility company
brought in Hans Bethe as a consultant who I ve mentioned before.
He is one of the country s great physicists.
A labor union, which was well financed, was the intervenor,
and they d already carried it to the Supreme Court, so that was a
powerful intervention. We had to step in and resolve that issue.
103
Wilmsen: And how did you resolve it?
Pigford: With great difficulty. [laughter] We reviewed their design and
we got Bethe to testify. He had reviewed part of it, we got
their design people, and many outside consultants.
The greatest safety issue hinged on the possibility of some
loose partsome piece of metal, trashthat was in the sodium
coolant system getting swept up in the coolant by rapidly moving
fluid and going up towards the fuel assemblies where the sodium
was to cool the fuel assembly. If that foreign piece, whatever
it was, were to lodge against the entrance, the sodium to that
particular fuel assembly, or fuel rod, would not be moving. And
to show how sensitive this is, within a few seconds, the fuel rod
would melt if it didn t have the coolant. And so that was one of
the principal safety issues.
They said, "Look, we put in strainers, we know all those
things could theoretically happen, but we don t have any loose
material in a sodium coolant."
Well, we were in the process of conducting the hearing and
already they had the sodium coolant in the facility. They were
not allowed to start it up and make it critical, but they were
testing it out. They were allowed to do this, partly because the
rules were changing and they had been under more lenient rules in
the beginning. And so already they had molten sodium in the
pipes and in the reactor vessel, and we came in one Monday
morningthey d gone home for the weekendand they had a new sad
look on their faces and they said, "You will read about it in the
paper, but there s a loose part now in the sodium."
What happened is that they had wanted to put a little
neutron monitor down into the sodium in preparation for starting
up so it could measure the reproduction of neutrons and approach
to criticality, and they had silver-soldered it to a long
stainless steel rod, which was to be lowered down into the sodium
and held there. And they d forgotten that silver solder
dissolves in sodium, and so the neutron monitor was somewhere in
the molten sodium, maybe an inch long.
And we said, "Well, there s the problem. It could lodge in
your fuel assembly and cause a meltdown." They said, "No, we ve
done calculations and it s too heavy. There are not enough sheer
forces on that piece down in the coolant. There s not enough
energy to bring it up."
true.
II
And their consultants said that was
104
Pigford: So we then went through the procedure: "But if it were to lodge,
or something like that, and you have a meltdown, what would you
do?" It was required that there be a procedure in hand, such
that they could shut down their reactor quickly, avoid the
meltdown spreading to other fuel assemblies, and any great
radioactivity that was created would be contained in the double-
wall containment of the facility. Well, we finally concluded
that we thought all of that would work. They would lose their
reactor, but that s their own dollars and cents and it wasn t an
issue of safety, and so that was the main thing to be resolved
and we gave them permission to do it.
They ran for a few months, and then they had a meltdown. It
was a partial meltdown, and fortunately, things worked, and it
did not cause any damage to people inside or outside the
facility.
What actually caused the melting was that there was a new
thing they had added along the way which was a metallic cone of
zirconium metal underneath the reactor, but located in the sodium
pool, so that if there were a melting of the fuel, the molten
fuel would come down and see this Chinese hat of zirconium metal
which would not melt, and it would then divert the molten fuel
away so that it would not become critical again.
Well, apparently there was a fabrication problem getting it
into the pool. It was kind of an afterthought, and there was a
piece of that zirconium that tore off--a little piece of metal a
few centimeters across and it did lodge into the entrance to the
fuel assembly and caused a few fuel assemblies to melt.
Well, that didn t bother us because we said, "We told you
so," but it wrecked that facility and that s one of the main
reasons they never ran that as a plant.
Wilmsen: Now that was the Fermi- 1 plant, right?
Pigford: Yes, Fermi- 1. They later built a water-cooled reactor called
Fermi-2, and it ran quite successfully. Probably they re still
running it, to my knowledge. Well, so that s how I got involved.
Making an Independent Finding of Safety at Diablo Canyon,
Circa 1966
Pigford: And then I sat on many cases. I think that the responsibilities
serving on those boards worried some of the people on the panel.
105
Glenn Seaborg held a meeting of the national panel before any
board got started and he showed us the charter to each board
which had come out in legal language. We read it over and he
said to us--now I say this not to disparage Seaborg; he was a
very great man, but he s a scientist and he believed in his
staff. He says, "By
the time this comes to you members of the
board, by the time the case comes to you, it will have been so
thoroughly reviewed by our staff that all technical issues will
have been resolved. Your main job is to conduct a public hearing
so that in an orderly way, you give the public a chance to air
their complaints."
Well, I and a friend of mine who was from Livermore pointed
out to him that the charge to the board was not quite that. It
said we had to make out our own independent finding of safety,
and that doesn t mean you accept the staff s recommendation; it
could be no more than a recommendation. Both my friend from
Livermore and I pointed that out to Seaborg.
He said, "Don t worry about it."
Well, my friend from Livermore immediately resigned. He
apparently never served. And I told Seaborg if I served, I would
have to do exactly what I was charged to do.
He said, "Do it as you see fit," and I did and I kept doing
that, much to the consternation of the utilities and also the AEC
staff.
Along the way I asked lots of questions and demanded lots of
answers and caused lots of lawyers to work overtime on the part
of the utilities and their engineering staff. There were two
different cases in which I participated that led to negative
decisions. In one case the whole board turned down the
application. In another case, in the late 1960s when the Pacific
Gas and Electric company applied for permission to build its two
nuclear plants at Diablo Canyon near San Luis Obispo, I was on
that board and I brought up some issues that in my opinion were
not resolved. I have already discussed that at some length in
one of our earlier interviews.
I ended up writing my own dissent from the Diablo Canyoun
Board on two groundsone, a procedural ground, which you d call
a legal ground, and another on a technical ground of safetyand
that caused a lot of consternation throughout the country.
Wilmsen: Now, in Diablo Canyon were there big demonstrations against that
nuclear power plant?
106
Pigford: There were some, but strangely in those days [circa 1966] --it s
very strange to me--they were not well-organized or supported.
It wouldn t happen that way again. There were two main
objections. The neighbors it s in farming country--didn t seem
to have much objection to it.
Now the cooling water from the plant would go into the
Pacific Ocean and along that part of the Pacific Ocean there are
a lot of sea otters. They worried a lot about the possibility of
radioactivity in the cooling watermore than should be there-
getting into the shellfish, like oysters and so forth, and
getting into the sea otters and causing damage. But it was only
a few commercial fisherman who appeared to object, and they
couldn t expect to make much headway against the battery of
highly paid professional attorneys that PG&E could mount.
The other objection was that the geological and seismic
investigation was not adequate. I discussed that earlier.
Then there were a couple of ranchers, but the nearby ranches
are so big there that they didn t have any effective concerns.
It was weakly opposed, really.
Why didn t the Sierra Club oppose it? They d opposed Bodega
Bay, and it had gotten in actively into the selection of the
Diablo Canyon site. PG&E from Bodega Bay had learned that they
really needed to try to work with the Sierra Club--very powerful
intervenement [or intervention? ] --and as a result, PG&E offered
two or more sites to the Sierra Club and Sierra Club indicated
that of those sites, it had less opposition to Diablo Canyon. It
turned out that many people in the Sierra Club felt that the
Sierra Club was wavering in a dissent. It later caused an
enormous rift within the Sierra Club, and I think maybe that
contributed to the manager of the club leaving the club. But it
may be that accidentally, or from some misunderstanding, the
Sierra Club did not even participate in the hearing.
So here it was not actively opposed. I was the only
opposer--except for Mr. Vrana, an amateur geologist.
1
I will
come back to that later.
Professor Pigford revised his discussion of Mr. Vrana s objection to
the Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant and inserted it as part of a longer
insert later in this transcript (see pages 144-150).
107
Meeting the Provisions of the Atomic Energy Act: A General
Electric Case
Wilmsen: You said that there was one other license application that you
opposed. What one was that?
Pigford: It was a small experimental fast-breeder reactor that General
Electric wanted to build in Arkansas. In those days, designing
fast-breeder power reactors was a very important activity at
General Electric and they did it with government money. They
needed to conduct some experiments that had never been conducted
before to prove that the reactor would safely shut itself down
even if it had something like a control rod malfunction. To save
money, they went to a utility company in Arkansas which didn t
want to build a nuclear power plant, but wanted to be on the
record as supporting nuclear power, as most utilities throughout
the country wanted. They decided they will offer the site and
even pay up some money to help the industry move ahead, and so
that required a safety license, safety approval to build it.
The people who were the partners in building it were General
Electric and the Atomic Energy Commission, which was putting up
about half the money. They formed kind of a consortium and they
got some money from the Federal Republic of Germany, which was
also interested in moving ahead with fast breeders. Germany was
interested in the experiment and they wanted to be a part of it
and have access to results and get the publicity and so forth. I
think they maybe were going to put in something like 15 or 20
percent of the money.
Well, one of the criteria for getting a license goes beyond
safety: it s financial competence and also consistency with the
Atomic Energy Act which was enacted by Congress probably in 1952,
during the Eisenhower Atoms for Peace program. One part of that
act says the government will not support or give a license to any
nuclear facility owned by a foreign government.
Well, the chairman of this was a professional administrative
law judge. We were all administrative law judges; I was a judge
for fourteen years, just part-time, even though I d known nothing
about law.
Wilmsen: You mean as a member of this panel?
Pigford: Yes. And so he said he was worried about whether this consortium
would fairly meet the provisions of the Atomic Energy Act. At
the first open meeting he asked the lawyers from General Electric
to please look into that issue, consider the prohibition from the
108
Atomic Energy Act, and try to convince our board that you re not
violating it.
They said, "It s only 15 percent from West Germany. The
project is controlled by GE and Atomic Energy Commission and
they re the ones who are really going to make the decision."
Well, our administrative law judge--his name was J.D. Bond-
had written many, many reviews of normal applications, like
licenses for radio and TV stations, and so he knew something
about the parts of law involving the government government
litigations concerning what is meant by ownership.
He dug into the law books and
Shoe Company in Boston, which must
something like that, in which there
by many people. It was a publicly-
anti-trust, I don t know, but there
whether one of the stockholders who
undue influence. Maybe 20 percent
as an owner, in the sense of being
influence on financial decisions.
found the case of the Brown
have been back in the 1920s or
was an issue of stock owned
owned company. Maybe it was
was some litigation as to
owned a lot of stock had
of the company could be held,
able to exercise undue
The courts found that, yes, that was undue influence and he
would be called an owner. J.D. Bond then generalized and said,
"There is Germany"--which is either 15 or 20 percent, I ve
forgotten my numbers--"and so legally they represent ownership to
the extent that it violates the 1952 Atomic Energy Act.
Therefore we will not give you a license." And he convinced me
and the other technical member that this was a necessary
decision.
It upset the whole industry and nuclear community, but the
Atomic Energy Commission quickly fixed it with Germany and
established a new decision process in which Germany was not a
decision-making party at all. Germany didn t care. All they
wanted was the publicity.
Making Technical Improvements: A Condition of Licensing
Wilmsen: It was many years later, when they had the big demonstrations
there, that I was thinking about at Diablo.
Pigford: Oh, they ve had so many demonstrations, they re fairly routine,
It shows that even though there was strangely little public
opposition during the construction permit stage in the 1960s,
109
that opposition has mounted. But I don t think even yet it has
ever amounted to really well organized and financed opposition.
It may be that the best organized and financed opposition
was on Fermi- 1. Why the labor union would undertake this--such a
challenge--! have never understood, but they did.
Wilmsen: Now in a case like Fermi- 1, where the first board was brought in,
it sounds like it was well after construction was underway.
Pigford: Oh, in the case of Fermi- 1, yes, they were allowed to go ahead
and start construction because the criteria were just evolving.
But they got caught up on that, and so by the time the new
licensing board system came into place, the plant was almost
completely constructed.
Wilmsen: So basically the role of the board then was to make
recommendations for how to--
Pigford: To decide if they could operate. They still officially had to
complete a few things. Well, what the company wanted was
permission to go into operating license, but we told them they
weren t ready. There were too many questions we had- -concerns- -
so we said it s still a construction permit. Even though the
remaining construction would not be very much, they could not go
into criticality testing without our permission. So, it was a
major decision, but we were perfectly willing to not be
influenced at all by the fact that the plant was already
constructed.
Wilmsen: Now did you have a hand in developing the criteria and standards
as well?
Pigford: Well, along the way, each board did.
II
Pigford: They never would let the Republic of Germany come in again. I
also never again heard of that way of calculating iodine doses to
adults and neglecting infants. 2
And oh, a major thing: I refused
to participate in the way that Seaborg had initially said. He
said, "If technical issues are not in controversyl , you] don t
need to worry about that." Well, I said I can t do that, and so
I went into every technical issue that I thought was germane.
Now, I cannot claim that this set the pattern for the rest of the
boards , but I know it had some influence .
2
See insert pages 144-150.
110
Determining an Acceptably Low Hazard
Wilmsen: How did you go about determining if that hazard was acceptably
low?
Pigford: Well, to be frank, in the long run it s a gut feeling. But it s
not as ad hoc as it may sound. First, the Atomic Energy
Commission had set up criteria: What are the allowable outside
doses from the operation of this plant? They have two sets of
criteria: one for normal operation when you still emit
radioactivity to the environment and the other for accidents.
So we did not engage in evaluating the adequacy of those
criteria. I know those criteria were challenged, but they were
not challenged before the Atomic Safety and Licensing boards;
they were challenged directly to the commissioners of the Atomic
Energy Commission, who had to handle that. What we did is we
reviewed the design for the proposed operationconsidered all
the what-ifs, like what if you lose emergency cooling? What if
you have this piece of metal lodged into the entrance to the fuel
assembly? It was a long list, and we could keep adding to that
list as long as we wanted to.
They had to provide answers both in oral testimony and
written back-up. The reason I say it s a gut feeling is because
most of our questions were on things that had never happened
before, and still haven t happened. That s what safety analysis
is, if it s done properly. And so when you get answers and you
say these are calculations of what would happen, you ask have
they used sufficient conservatism in selecting the parameters,
for example. It s refined enough nowadays, but we went through
this exercise I think mentally.
Nowadays we would first come up with what ways could some of
the parameters, like the strength of a piece of metal, be
different from what you would use in a calculation. That s
always possible: manufacturing errors and so forth. We ask them
nowadays to give us a distribution of probability of it being
this much weaker and so forth. It requires an enormous amount of
testing different samples from different manufacturers, and
putting all of this into a calculation to tell us the
probability, of a certain calculated response measured in terms
of an off-site person getting this much dose, or the probability
he ll get that much.
Then, nowadays, I ll choose as a criterionwhich is
normally done in assessing safety of structures like buildings
and bridges--! 11 accept everything up to the last 5 percent
Ill
[i.e. 95 percent confidence]. And if the last 5 percent,
according to the calculations, look like they are not too far
away from the standard, I ll accept it. And that s a gut
feeling. Even deciding 5 percent is a gut feeling; some people
want 90 percent. Generally the industry, influenced by
regulators, uses 95 percent. We weren t so refined in those
days, because we didn t have the probabilistic data.
The Need for Better Public Involvement
[Interview A: October 28, 1999] ##
Wilmsen: Today is October 28, 1999, and this is the fourth interview with
Thomas Pigford. Last time we finished talking about your serving
on the Atomic Energy Commission Safety Licensing boards and I had
a couple more questions on that. The first one is how did the
opposition to nuclear power at public meetings affect you
personally?
Pigford: How did they affect me? Well, they took a lot of my time because
the boards were supposed to be the forum at which the public
could voice their concerns, and when the boards were doing their
job right, they had to hold lots of hearings. It affected me
also in that I grew to have a better understanding of what these
intervenors were after and sympathize with them because it was
very hard for them to get answers from the staff of the Atomic
Energy Commission and from the applicants which would be the
utility companies and the consultants.
I don t intend to imply anything negative about any of the
parties, but I don t believe the partiesnamely , the Atomic
Energy Commission and the utility companies, the applicants--
really took the time to understand what the intervenors were
really after. I developed, I guess, more of a concern that
somehow it wasn t giving the intervenors quite the forum they
apparently needed.
Now that might have affected me more indirectly. In the
seventies I got more and more into doing research on
environmental issues and policy and I m doing that still. And
some of this interest was triggered by concerns over the points
that intervenors were bringing up.
Wilmsen: So there were two things, then: the forum for them raising the
issues and then the issues themselves?
112
Pigford;
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Yes. It also became apparent that the utility companies by and
large were trying to supply answers, but it s just like two ships
passing in the dark; they weren t communicating very well. You
can say that also about the staff of the Atomic Energy
Commission.
Or with the
They weren t communicating with the public?
industry? Or both?
Both.
Both. Okay. And how did you think that the forum was not
meeting the needs of the public?
Well, the whole process was not meeting the needs. The process
starts with the first announcements of intent to apply for a
construction permit. I think the utility companies learned,
finally, that they had to start interfacing with the public at
that level even before then because the public was interested and
they wanted to feel that they were being consulted from the
beginning, whereas the forum that was provided officially through
the licensing boards was way down the pike.
The utility company would acquire the land, with which they
were allowed to do whatever they wanted; work with contractors,
equipment suppliers to develop a design of the plant, which
they re allowed to do; and then apply for a construction permit.
Already they ve invested hundreds of millions of dollars in the
project, and I think the public would like to have been consulted
during that phase.
Finally, usually after three or four years of review of the
application itself by the staff of the Atomic Energy Commission,
it comes to the board. The staff of the Atomic Energy Commission
reviewed it strictly, by and large, as a technical project.
There was no official forum for intervening at that level, and
yet they should have been working with the publicthey and the
utility companies. And that wasn t happening. So by the time it
got to the board itself, positions tended to have become
polarized. That s not a good atmosphere for exchange of views
and trying to understand the other people s views.
Now, while you were serving on those licensing boards, it might
have been towards the end, I m not exactly sure of the date,
actually, but the Atomic Energy Commission was then split into
the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the Energy Research and
Development Administration [ERDA] . What kind of effect did that
have on your work with safety licensing and also any other impact
it might have had on you?
113
Pigford: That splitting itself, as I recalled it, didn t seem to make much
difference, but officially our boards then became an arm of the
Nuclear Regulatory division, which is what they should be. I
suppose it got more structured. They set up an Atomic Safety and
Licensing appeal board which was a board that continued with four
or five people that were on it, and so if any of the parties the
intervenors, or the utility companies (the applicants) --wanted to
appeal the decision of a given board, they could go to the appeal
board.
Sometimes the appeal board would remand the issue back to
the board itself that wrote the decision. The appeal board tried
to streamline the work by suggesting that some boards took longer
than others, were more thorough than others. That might have
helped a little bit. By and large, though, I don t think the
transition to being under or part of the Nuclear Regulatory
Commission s proceedings really affected me very much.
Wilmsen: Then how did the appointment in 1971 of James Schlesinger as head
of the Atomic Energy Commission affect your work on the safety
licensing board?
Pigford: I don t think Schlesinger s appointment affected any of the work
I can remember as a member of the board. He seemed to stay
removed from that process, and I don t think he ever met with us.
Seaborg had met with the entire panel from which boards are
drawn, but I don t think Schlesinger did. I can t remember any
of that. He did affect the Atomic Energy Commission, and its
effect on a subsequent organization, ERDA, was well known, but
that had little to do, as far as I can remember, with my own
experience in the licensing.
Wilmsen: Because he announced that the AEC would be a neutral defender of
the public interest. What kind of impact did that have on the
kind of controversy you were referring to earlier?
Pigford: Well, I had forgotten about that announcement. I guess I didn t
even remember it. My recollection is I didn t see any effect.
That may be unfair to him, but it may not have affected any of
the boards I was on.
Wilmsen: What kind of effect, if any, did Earth Day in 1970 have?
Pigford: What was Earth Day?
Wilmsen: It was a national event planned by Senator Gaylord Nelson to
raise public awareness of environmental issues.
Pigford: I cannot remember any of that.
The Economics of Nuclear Power, and Shifting Research Focus to
Nuclear Waste Management
Wilmsen: Okay. Then moving on into later in the 1970s, you started
getting interested in analyzing the cost of electrical energy
from nuclear power plants. How did it come about that you got
interested in that?
Pigford: Well, I had been interested in that almost from the beginning of
my career as a nuclear engineer, and [Mason] Benedict and I, in
writing and teaching at MIT, felt that we must teach engineers
how to analyze the economics because the product, if it s useful,
must meet economic criteria as one of the foremost measures of
success. Even in our first edition of our textbook we presented
equations and techniques for economic analysis. That was highly
refined in our second edition which wasn t published until the
end of the seventies.
Wilmsen: What conclusions did you reach from those analyses?
Pigford: Well, we concluded that nuclear power could be economical. It
was a close call comparing it with coal-fired plants to generate
electricity which was, at that time, the real contendercoal and
nuclear. We were more interested in identifying the effect of
economics on the design of reactors and on the importance of
various operations in the fuel cycle. We learned that the
overwhelming cost of nuclear power lies in the capital costs, the
costs of constructing the plant in the first place, whereas the
operating costs are a much smaller component of the total than it
is, say, in coal-fired plants. So that gave considerable
credence to the belief that a nuclear power plant would operate
with lower fuel costs. I think that turned out to be the case,
especially when compared with coal. It s very marginal in that
comparison when you compare it with gas, which was a new feature,
not present in the 1970s.
Wilmsen: When did gas come in?
Pigford: Well, gas was beginning to come in in the 1970s. It came in in
the late seventies in terms of being used to generate baseload
electricitylarge plants to make electrical energy. It came in
very heavily towards the end of the seventies, and that is the
main reason why there were no more orders for nuclear plants.
The last order for a new plant occurred in the late seventies, I
think.
The reason it came in so strongly was because it had a
reasonable fuel cost, but a very low capital costvery low so
115
low that neither coal nor nuclear could compete with gas because
of that. And that s still the case.
Wilmsen: Now what kind of impact did these conclusions that you reached on
your economic analyses have on your research and your future
career?
Pigford: Well, as I say, we got into economic analyses from the beginning.
That showed us a clear pathway towards a very saleable and
important product: nuclear energy. And that reinforced our
enthusiasm for teaching and contributing to the development of
nuclear power. However, towards the end of the seventies I saw
the turnaround of the economics caused by the natural gas. I was
taking it on faith, but with some surprise, that there were
enough resources of natural gas to clearly fuel a gas plant for
its entire life thirty or forty years of the plantwhich had
been a problem in earlier years. Those resources mainly came
from the expanding fields of natural gas in Canada. Taking that
into account, then, it seemed to me quite reasonable that
utilities would place no more orders for nuclear plants.
I wasn t interested in just teaching the principles of a
nuclear plant; I wanted to educate students, young engineers in
doing innovations and designing themdesigning better ones. If
there are no new orders, there s no need really to design new
nuclear plants.
With of course some reservation- -we didn t know how long
that situation would last, but I thought it was going to last a
long time I turned my own interest to do research and teaching
on the disposal of radioactive waste, and that blossomed out very
quickly. We started that probably about 1977, although I had
written a few papers about it as early as 1974, I think. And it
blossomed into a major research program funded by various
countries and the Department of Energy.
Wilmsen: How did your colleagues in the department respond to your
shifting your research focus?
Pigford: Well, one of them, Professor [Paul L.] Chambre, who is an applied
mathematician, saw the importance and opportunities and he joined
me in the research. That became the major part of his research,
too, and we formed a research team. And that s a fairly large
team for a department. Most of the faculty have individually
carved out areas of their own: one man in nuclear materials, one
man in thermal hydraulics and heat removal, and so forth. I
think the department as a whole was very happy to see this
blossoming in a new area. I don t recall others really
116
materially changing their own research as much as Chambre and I
did.
Wilmsen: What was the impact on teaching of your change in research focus?
Pigford: Well, I still taught the same basic courses I d been teaching
before. I added a new course on principles of waste disposal and
added a major new seminar course because this new effort was very
popular with graduate students. In fact, many graduate students
were sent to our department from foreign countriesTaiwan,
China, Japan, France, and so forthspecifically to work with
that new research group. Our seminar course blossomed and it
became a very exciting field.
Two More Terms as Department Chair. 1974-1979. and 1984-1988
Restimulating the Department
Wilmsen: And then in the mid-seventies, you became chair of the department
again, and then served through the late seventies.
Pigford: I think I said 1974, didn t I?
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: Yes, that s when I became chairman again.
Wilmsen: What new issues had emerged in the department since your previous
tenure as chair?
Pigford: [sigh] Well--
Wilmsen: How was it different?
Pigford: It was somewhat unusual in administrative practices within the
university to ask a chairman to repeat his chairmanship so soon
and they asked me to repeat two timesbut the administration
asked me to do it. In both cases for the repeat appointments,
they felt the department needed to be restimulated. I was
somewhat surprised at that. But they felt there were problems
and so they asked me to come back in as chairman to restimulate
the programs, and that was the main reason.
It s not the best job in the world. The first tenure as
chairman was maybe one of the best jobs in the world because I
117
was creating a new department and had the resources given to me
by Chancellor Seaborg to hire a lot of new faculty at tenure
level. We put together a great team. And that was very
exciting. It s never as exciting to come in again and try to
rectify or restimulate. It s a harder challenge, really.
Wilmsen: Why did the administration feel that it needed restimulation?
Pigford: There were reports from our periodic review committee. We had an
outside review committeeoutside the department, outside the
university- -which we set up when we first formed the department.
It had academics on it and professionals in the field, and they
felt that our department had lost much of its connection with the
real world. With the new technical challenges of nuclear energy,
that connection had sort of drifted or become more diffuse, and
they wanted the department to develop more focus for that
purpose. That was the second time I was chairman.
The third time that question came up again, and also we had
this very expensive facility which I ve described beforethe
reactor laboratoryand its use in teaching and research within
the department had gone downhill. It was actively used, but it
was used actively by people from Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory who
wanted to use it to prepare radioactive isotopes, and by outside
contractors such as Lockheed which was developing missile systems
and satellite systems for the military. They involved very
sophisticated electronic systems and there s always a worry and
uncertainty about whether those electronic systems can survive in
space where they can be exposed to cosmic rays and other
radiation from the sun. They could simulate that by putting them
in our reactor and testing them out.
The reactor was making money for the department but it was
not being used much for teaching and research, and that was an
example of one of the problems the campus had with the
department. And so again, it s a similar thing: question the
focus, refocus where appropriate, and restimulate the department.
I thought those concerns were quite well taken. At that
time it was not the result of an external review committee, but I
set up a special external review committee to review the
department when I took over for the third time. They gave us a
lot of strength in their strong recommendations, and so that
helped us carry them out.
During that third tenure as chairman, we got the faculty of
our department to itself question the use of the reactor and its
importance. We concluded that making money from outside users
was not the most important thing academically, and that campus
118
space, which is very dear, could be better used for other
purposes. So we managed to get a fairly sizeable allocation from
the state with the support of Chancellor Heyman to decommission
the reactor, and that was underway when I completed my third term
as chairman.
Wilmsen: Now you mentioned that you were surprised the second time they
asked you to be chair?
Pigford: Yes, and I was surprised the third time, too.
Wilmsen: Why were you surprised?
Pigford: Well, I was hoping I wouldn t have to do this. My research was
blossoming more, in both cases, than it ever had in the past, and
you can t undertake administrative jobs like that without cutting
into research and teaching. But I saw the need and they
convinced me, so I took the job.
Wilmsen: Was your research blossoming because in the past you d had
responsibilities as chairman?
Pigford: No, I don t think that had much to do with the research.
Wilmsen: Why was it blossoming at that time more than at any other time?
Pigford: The last time I was chairman I was in this new field of waste
disposal, and that one had taken off like a rocket. I d been in
nuclear engineering for thirty-four years and I d become well-
known internationally, and we had lots of people who came to
participate. They sent a lot of post doctoral scholars to work
with us.
Wilmsen: This was in the late seventies?
Pigford: Yes.
Wilmsen: Okay, and what did you do to restimulate the department in the
1970s?
**
Pigford: In some cases it appeared that some faculty members were drifting
along in their research. The focus towards the department s
mission had become diluted. We tried to encourage more faculty
members to get research grants, which in engineering and in the
physical sciences is necessary, really, to do much in the way of
on-campus research. That helped a lot. Just, it s an ordeal to
write proposals for grants. They don t come to you. You have to
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write proposals, follow-up, keep on top of it.
restimulation.
And that led to
Then, getting the department itself to take a position on
the future of our research reactor was not an easy thing because
the reactor was a great asset to the department; it had been, and
they felt it could be in the future. But we realized that the
research we were doing had less and less to do with the reactor,
so the department finally, in my third term as chariman, came to
a very uniform view that we should take the bold step and get rid
of it. We weren t told by anyone to get rid of it. We took the
initiative.
New Research Directions
Wilmsen: So the two things, then, were stimulating the faculty to get more
grants and to get rid of the reactor.
Pigford: And to initiate new courses and new seminars in areas that could
be more productive for research.
Wilmsen: What were those areas?
Pigford: Again, the waste disposal was one. Already fusion had blossomed,
and during my third tenure as chairman, we added more faculty in
the area of nuclear fusion. But the largest growth of research
during the eighties was this program in waste disposal. And that
came to me as a welcome surprise. It utilized my background as a
chemical engineer, which is what I was educated in at Georgia
Tech and MIT.
In chemical engineering one of the disciplines is what we
call transport analysis studying how materials transport through
liquids or through gas. It s very important in designing
separation systems like, for example, making gasoline out of
petroleum, or purifying nuclear fuel, and so forth.
But in waste disposal, the greatest emphasis is on burying
wastewhether it s radioactive, or chemical, and so forthdeep
underground. The goal is to do it in a way that it will never
seriously contaminate ground water that future people could get
to, and so the key is not how to build it, but how to prove that
it s safe.
The proof lies heavily in mathematical analysis, starting
with solid waste. Because over the long termthousands of
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Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
years, tens of thousands of years, hundreds of thousands of
yearsyou cannot really ensure that something buried will not be
contacted by ground water, you have to ask when it gets
contacted, what are the consequences?
The waste containers corrode. It releases radioactivity in
some small amount that gets in the ground water, and that
contaminated water must travel through rock or soilrock, if
it s a good, well-selected site. Eventually it may get out
someplace beyond the repository, and what you worry about is
future humans may unknowingly drill a well, extract water, and
use that water for drinking water and for growing food which they
eat .
The laudable objectives are to design it in a way that such
people don t have to take any action to protect themselves, but
instead the repository design is good enough that what does get
out into the water is at such a low concentration that what
radiation dose the future people get as a result of using that
water is far below the allowable dose, which is the criterion for
safety.
So I ve described a transport process: corrosion,
dissolution into water, the water moving through rock, which can
interact with the rock the radioactivity can adsorb or absorb on
the rock, but that only holds it up temporarily, maybe for a few
thousand years and then it finally gets to the environment.
That may take thousands or tens of thousands years, but it
finally gets to the environment. When I say get, I mean some
small fraction.
And that s the key to proving safety, to develop a credible
and defensible mathematical analysis of that process. That s
what I studiednot in terms of radioactive waste but that s one
of the principles I ve studied in chemical engineering. It was
great fun to find that that s what the field of waste disposal
needed. They hadn t had chemical engineers working in it from
this point of view before, and that was the major thrust of our
research program.
And what were the other areas of research?
In the department?
Yes.
Nuclear fusion.
Yes, you mentioned fusion.
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Pigford: My colleague Professor [Virgil E.] Schrock was working on heat
removal processes. Again, it was related mainly to reactor
design, and especially reactor safety, because it s maintaining
reliable heat extraction that is the key to getting safe nuclear
reactors .
You can shut them down, but you still have an enormous
amount of radioactive decay heat that has to be removed. If
that s not removed, the reactor will overheat even though it s
shut down and can melt; it can release radioactivity that can get
mainly into the air, which is the worry. He has been doing
research on that for years and is still doing so.
Then another colleague, who is about the same age (we were
all about the same age when the department started) , Professor
[Laurence M. ] Grossman, has been quite dedicated towards the
theoretical physics approach to designing reactors, predicting
the transport of nuclear particles throughout the reactor
structure. And these are the chain carriers that can cause
nuclear criticality.
Well, he advanced the work in many new fields generated by
the blossoming interest in using nuclear power for space
applications, which meant it had to be a very compact reactor,
very small reactor; they only need a few hundred kilowatts for a
space vehicle. That introduced a whole new environment in which
nuclear power reactor had to perform.
Then there was biomedical research. Professor [Selig N.]
Kaplan had an affiliation with Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory and
also an affiliation with the DC San Francisco Medical School,
both of those places. (The Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory has on
the campus the Donner Laboratory, which is its research arm in
bio-research.) And that was still emerging. There were many
issues: What are the biological effects of radiation?
More data came from survivors of the two nuclear blasts in
Japan during World War II, the sole survivors who were on the
fringe, who weren t killed because they got lower doses of
radiation. It s based upon what is learned from those survivors,
who are still being followed up, that has established the
standards for what is a safe amount of radiation. In fact, that
standard through the years has become tightened up. What was
considered safe back in the 1940s and even in the fifties would
not be allowed today. My colleagues were continuously involved
in following up that work.
Professor [Donald R.] Olander s work in materials science
had established one of the unique laboratories in the country on
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Wilmsen:
Pigford:
materials science for nuclear applications. He has always been
on the forefront of the need for new information. He got
involved even in studying some of the unusual properties of rock
that is used by some countries for disposing of radioactive
waste.
One of the attractive approaches is to find a natural bed of
salt that is left over from the time 200 million years ago when
the oceans evaporated. We have enormous quantities of that in
the United States in the south and in the west. Digging out
caverns and tunnels in that rock and putting the waste solids in
those tunnels is one of the most attractive ways of disposing of
waste of any kind. The rock itselfthese layers of rock--are
something around 100 feet thick, and they re deep, maybe several
thousand feet underground.
Natural salt, which is a rock, is plastic and under the
influence of the overburden of earth, it will creep slowly. Like
a plastic, it will deform and move in and enclose the waste
solids with a continuous layer of rock as if it s a cocoon
surrounding the waste solid. And no water can get there; it
would have to dissolve out the salt. These salt beds are so
thick that there is a slow dissolution of salt by ground water at
the boundaries, but those boundaries are far enough away that the
hydrologists have established that would take millions of years.
So it s a water-free environment, except there are tiny
little inclusions of water that were left over in the evaporation
process which are tiny bubbles in the salt itself, and when the
waste heats up the salt radioactive wasteit causes a
temperature gradient, and those brine inclusions migrate up the
temperature gradient towards the waste.
Professor Olander did some outstanding research in his
laboratory to measure the rate of those brine inclusions
transport through the salt. He had been a graduate student in
chemical engineering at MIT several years after I graduated and
he also had learned a lot about transport processes.
Was he one of your students?
He was a student of Professor Benedict s. We were both
officially in the chemical engineering department at that time
even though we had started nuclear engineering. He did do
research on a different topic for his doctoral dissertation
related to the chemical separation to extract plutonium and
uranium from discharged nuclear fuel. He did research on that
for his doctorate, but after joining our faculty he had turned
more to materials research.
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So those are some examples. Undoubtedly I m neglecting
some, but those are the ones that come to mind immediately.
That s one of the great things about a small department: it s
small enough that you can all sit around a conference table and
argue and discuss and each person himself has his own ideas and
they overlap.
Quantifyine Safety Standards. Economic Issues. Fuel Reprocessing,
and Concerns about Weapons Proliferation in the late 1970s
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Now backing up to when you first started getting interested in
environmental issues, we talked about the safety licensing board
not being the appropriate forum--or you felt it wasn t. Then
there were environmental issues that you were getting interested
in, also. What were the environmental issues?
Well, this goes back to the late sixties and early seventies.
There were two areas of environmental issues. The biggest one
dealt with ultimate safety. Suppose there is some accident, the
reactor gets overheated, and it emits radioactivity into the air.
That s inside the big containment, but the containments have some
tiny perforations in them. It s hard to make them completely
tight. The issue is how much could get out and where it would
go.
Yes, we talked about that in one of the early interviews.
Did we? We also talked about the other environmental issue,
which is not concerned with accidents, but with what we call
routine emissions. I think we did talk about that, where the
early nuclear power plants had big stacks, like smoke stacks, and
the main purpose was to make it possible to discharge
environmental contaminants at a fairly elevated height so they d
mix well with air before getting down to people.
Yes, we did talk about that one, too.
ones?
So those were the major
Those are the major areas. Now my contribution on the first one
--on the safetywas I felt that there had not been enough
serious analysis of what could happen if some of the safety
systems failed and more radioactivity got out into the
environment. So I developed some calculations showing the
potential consequences, which is a hypothetical number: how many
people could get high doses if this safety system failed
completely?
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I calculated the potential radiation doses as the
contaminated cloud progresses out over the vicinity away from the
reactor. I intended this to then set more quantitatively the
standards of protection that the designers of the containment
system would be required to measure up to. I know my
calculations frightened a lot of people in the nuclear industry,
but many members of the public were beginning to realize that
this is what the facts are, and I was endeavoring to get them out
into the open. Those results are still being used in setting the
design requirements for safety.
Wilmsen: So they frightened the industry because of additional costs that
they would incur?
Pigford: That s part of it. Also, the industry realized that this
information in the hands of intervenors could be used against
them. Of course it was not my purpose to affect the intervening
process, but I think the public should know all of these things.
Wilmsen: Now in the early seventies, the Arab oil embargo kind of
rekindled some interest, or perhaps stimulated a new drive to
pursue nuclear power as an alternative to oil.
Pigford: Oh, yes. In fact, that drive had not diminished. It was already
well stimulated in the mid-sixties, but it just added to the
incentive for nuclear plants. But oil is used mainly for
transportation fuel, very little for generating electrical
energy, which is nuclear s big application. The oil crisis did
stimulate more work on electric-powered vehicles, which, if they
had emerged economically, could have increased the demand for
nuclear energy.
Wilmsen: And so in the context of that drive to pursue nuclear power, just
a few years later is when you started to realize that the capital
costs of nuclear power plants were great enough to present a
pretty significant economic problem.
Pigford: Yes. I realized that natural gas was a new challenger, and
because of nuclear s high capital costs the problem was worse
than industry had realized.
Wilmsen: Okay, what came of those concerns about threats that were raised
by the Arab oil embargo as the years progressed?
Pigford: That situation, the oil embargo, was legitimately used seriously
in good conscience by the nuclear power industry in promoting
more construction of nuclear power plants. It also led in the
seventies to more and more funds for research on other
alternatives, like clean power from coal, which is a very
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important effort still going on, and also research for other
alternatives like wind power and solar power; so the oil embargo
helped stimulate nuclear power.
As the economic challenges came up a few years later, those
were so strong that as soon as the utilities found enough
assurance of continued supply of natural gas at a reasonable
price for the plant life, they opoted for natural gas, regardless
of the oil embargo.
Wilmsen: Then in the seventies you were still doing research on nuclear
fuel cycles.
Pigford: Yes.
Wilmsen: How did those changes in the economic situation and your
interests in nuclear waste effect your research on the fuel
cycles?
Pigford: In the early seventies, our fuel cycle research was focussed on
developing proper cost analysis techniques for the nuclear fuel
cycle. That s somewhat complicated because in the nuclear fuel
cycle, the fuel stays in the engine in the plant, running for
about three or four years. You have to lay out money for the
fabrication two years before it goes in, so there s an
appreciable time lag of several years between purchase of fuel
and getting the result. That adds an important cost, namely, the
cost of financing that early purchase. It s much more important
in the nuclear fuel cycle than it is in the case of the fuel
cycle where you buy fuel and burn it rather quickly, so that led
to the need for better analytical techniques. The technique we
developed has been used and is still being used by some of the
utility companies.
Then there was the issue, do we need to go into fuel
reprocessing? And in my view, from the point of view of a
utility, that depends on the cost. Which is cheaper? So with my
graduate student, Jor-Shan Choi, we published analyses of the
relative costs of not reprocessing fuel versus reprocessing it
and recycling uranium and plutonium.
That was timely because there were already two large-scale
commercial reprocessing plants under order. One was under
construction, and it was the Barnwell Plant built in South
Carolina. The utilities thought reprocessing was a good idea;
well, the owners of the Barnwell Plant thought they could do
their reprocessing at low cost. It turned out to be uneconomical
when finally the real costs were knownbut to be fair, the
ground rules had changed on them.
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Pigford: The Barnwell Plant was the first commercial- scale reprocessing
plant in this country. It was under construction in the mid-
seventies. In our analyses we pointed out that if those costs
from reprocessing went up much higher it would not be economical
to reprocess. Instead, just treating the spent fuel as a waste
would be the most economical because of the changes instituted by
the Nuclear Regulatory Commission who now wanted the plutonium
product converted to a dry solid.
Another change was the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, I
think, reasonably wanted to have more onsite storage for the
radioactive waste that was produced. That added so much to the
cost that the industrial owner of that plant decided he would not
make those changes and he would not complete the plant.
That was a shock to the industry. Another plant to be built
by Exxon for the same purpose was cancelled. At the same time,
President Ford and later President Carter themselves said that
plant should not be completed because they wanted to send a
signal to the rest of the world that it would be too vulnerable
to the proliferation of nuclear weapons, namely, that the
recovered plutonium from reprocessing could be used to make
nuclear explosives, and they wanted to be sure that no other
country would go into fuel reprocessing.
Back to the U.S.: so Carter adopted a national policy that
that plant would not operate. When Reagan became president he
lifted that ban on reprocessing, but the industry then saw what
the costs would be. Even though another chemical company
considered buying the plant from the first owner at a real
bargain price, because of the add-ons that had to be made, it
concluded that it would not be economical to complete the plant
and do the reprocessing. And that was predicted from the
analyses that Choi and I made, which showed how much you can
afford to pay for reprocessing.
If it got greater than that break-even cost, then you should
not do it. We d never expected it to turn out that way, that our
analysis would kill that industrial project, although when it was
finally killed, other people were also doing similar analyses.
But it was right to turn down that project, because it would
be too expensive. So there is a case where what we had gone into
back in the early seventies, simply to refine our technique, gave
an answer to a major national decision that was forthcoming in
the early eighties.
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Wilmsen: How did you feel about President Reagan s approval of making
weapons from plutonium from commercial reactors?
Pigford: Well, Reagan didn t approve of that. He simply cancelled
Carter s order that that reprocessing plant should not be
completed. I am not aware of Reagan s endorsement of using
reactor-grade plutonium for weapons.
Many of us in the profession felt that Carter s order of
cancellation, which of course worked in the United States, would
not itself have the effect on foreign countries that he hoped it
would. And the foreign countries-- Japan went ahead on
reprocessing; their plant is not yet completed. France went
ahead; it has built two plants since then. Britain has gone
ahead. And they, I think, effectively thumbed their nose at the
United States and said, "That s a policy of the United States it
wants to undertake for its own selfish reasons. We believe that
our reprocessing is safe and we will safeguard this product and
put it back in reactors and use it as a fuel." So already, even
when Reagan came into office, it was obvious that Carter s policy
was not having the effect on other countries. And that was his
only purpose, just to dissuade other countries from reprocessing,
and so I felt that Reagan was right that Carter s policy did not
have the desired effect.
Now, I m about to publish an article shortly that concludes
that in those countries that have continued reprocessingFrance ,
Britain, and soon Japan and also Russiathey have accumulated a
large stockpile of separated civilian plutonium initially that
was planned to go back into reactors and be consumed as fuel.
But very little of that has happened, and I think the stockpile
is just plain dangerous.
I and my co-author, who s a professional journalist who has
followed this field for years, are recommending that civilian
reprocessing be stopped because obviously it s doing the wrong
thing, and that we also take steps to deplete that stockpile and
get rid of it. So the issue of whether to do fuel reprocessing
or not is a very complex one. It s caused me to go through a
complete 180 degree change on that. This article will be
published in the National Academy of Sciences Journal called
Issues in Science and Technology. It will be coming out in the
spring of 2000.
Wilmsen: Who s the co-author?
Pigford: My co-author is Luther Carter, who is a professional journalist.
He once was on the staff of Science magazine, but he s been a
freelance journalist for many, many years.
128
The Politicization of Public Concern Over Nuclear Power
Wilmsen: Now, when you decided to go into research on nuclear waste
management, were there people in the industry or in the
department at Cal who felt that that was not the way to go?
Pigford: No, I don t think anyone thought that was not the way to go.
that s too broad a question, I think.
But
Our research was focussed on developing analytical
techniques, mathematical techniques, to predict the transfer of
radioactivity through geologic media. This implied that the
disposal technique would be to create underground caverns and put
the waste down there.
Wilmsen:
Pigford;
Now there were some people who felt that there were
alternatives that were better. And one which technically I think
is better is to go in for deep sea-bed disposal. Go way out into
the Pacific where there are some unusually deep trenches, and
embed the waste in a long canister that embeds itself in about
100 feet of sediments at the bottom. From the studies by
oceanographers it does appear that the circulation of water down
there is so low that there s very little chance--and this is from
a transport analysis alsothat the small amount of radioactivity
that gets to the ocean water at the bottom will get to places
where people use ocean water.
I think technically it s a better technique than geologic
disposal. The problem is a political one: no one owns that land
where the deep trenches are and so the problems of getting
international agreements were just thought to be overwhelming.
Another more attractive approach is to shoot the radioactive
waste into the sun, which would require concentrating it to
reduce the weight. And that s where it belongs, because the sun
is so radioactive. But there the technical challenge or problem
is the abort rate of missiles, of space vessels, and so when
consulting the people in NASA, we concluded that that was just
untenable.
Now also in the 1970s there was a ballot initiative in
California, Proposition 15, which did not pass, but there was
some debate about it, which would have ended the construction of
nuclear power plants in California.
Yes, that was when Jerry Brown was governor, which must have been
in the mid-seventies. And your question is?
129
Wilmsen: What kind of impact, if any, did that have on your activities and
activities in the department?
Pigford: Well, I guess ostensibly none, because we expected it to fail and
it did. On the other hand, it began to waken us up more that
these concerns about nuclear power were not going to go away, and
they shouldn t go away, and were becoming more and more
politicized, and that s when they can have some stronger effect
than they had in the past. That, I guess, strengthened our
resolve that things have to be done right and openly so that they
can resist challenges like that.
Wilmsen: There was some legislation passed by the California State
Assembly that came out of that debate that restricted
construction of a nuclear power plant. Did that have any impact
on your research or teaching?
Pigford: I think that came out laterstill in the seventies. It said,
"No new construction until there has been a demonstrated
technology, suitable technology, for disposing of radioactive
waste," and that certainly stimulated me to do more research on
waste disposal.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: Well, I think it came out about the time when the natural gas
competition was becoming apparent. And that same resolution has
been adopted by many other states. Certainly the Department of
Energy which was in being at that time it still is argued that
that demonstrated technology would be available pretty soon (and
they were dead wrong) . So it was not treated at the time as
being a formidable barrier, but if there were an economic climate
that would promote additional construction, then I would think
that would be the question: what consists of demonstrated
technology?
And that would be in the courts, I know. People would argue
a pilot plant can be a suitable demonstration or even
calculations, because we re going to rely on calculations in the
long run, anyway.
But that never got as far as the courts. I think the
utility companies were beginning to prepare cases where they felt
they could prevail, but they never got that far.
Wilmsen: Why didn t they get that far?
Pigford: The natural gas. It s not worth it.
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Wilmsen: Now during all the debate around that legislation and Proposition
15 and so on, at one point Hans Bethe remarked that he and other
experts did not know whether the emergency core cooling system
was adequate. I was wondering what you thought about that
remark.
Pigford: Do you have a date on that by any chance?
Wilmsen: I don t have it with me, but it would be probably 1976.
Pigford: It s an important one because Hans Bethe is to be listened to.
The trouble is I don t remember it well enough. My sense is I
agreed with him. And I ve forgotten what was done about it. I m
sure it was not dropped. Unfortunately my memory is too fuzzy on
that. I guess if I d been involved in it, I would remember it,
but I wasn t serving on licensing boards anymore and I already
was getting into radioactive waste management.
Wilmsen: Another question I had was the nuclear power debate became so
polarized that it was almost akin to the abortion debate with the
protagonists and antagonists being so deeply entrenched in their
own points of view that you could hardly talk about it.
Pigford: You don t listen to each other after that.
Wilmsen: Yes, and each side probably could never convince the other side
of their point of view. Of course in debates like over the bills
in the Californian State Legislature and other places, both sides
would bring out their own experts to testify in support of their
own point of view. So my question is, I m curious what you think
can, or should, be done when the experts can t agree.
Pigford: Well, ideally, if you create the right environment for a
discussion, I think some of the polarizations go away--maybe
temporarily, but I ve seen it happen. Create an environment
where you get these people together for a weekend, without any
legal decision to be made, and a very good moderator, and you go
away feeling you have engaged. I don t think that was tried very
much.
Another thing isbecause I believe that that does have
ef f ect--people want to be listened to, and if you show you re
listening, then I think it cuts through a lot of barriers.
But both sides have to realize that it s not experts who
make any decisions. In the best sense, the political process
does that. And the experts must realize that what they re expert
on is not the only input to decision. That s why so many
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Wilmsen:
projects simply get canceled like the superaccelerator in Texas.
The political process just saw the costs.
That was the great project to build the world s biggest
acceleratorhigh energy physics; government-sponsored. The
physicists were the experts. And those physicists that work in
that area are really a closely knit group and they do feel that
their work in terms of need is terribly important. They re good,
but there are real limitations, and faltering on progress and
cost can properly shake up the sponsors. They would have gotten
along better if they (the physicists) had been close enough to
the sponsors to realize that cancellation was a possible outcome.
And I would say this about all of the polarization in nuclear
power. We degrade politics, but politics are still our way of
representing the public good.
Why do you think that people didn t try to create the environment
that would be conducive to the different sides really engaging
with one another?
Pigford: Oh, there are many reasons. The polarization is indeed strong
and it reflects such professional egos. Each side had points
that were valid. Each side could point to those points and say,
"Therefore, we are right."
Well, that s not necessarily the right conclusion. And the
utility companies have a culture that the criteria for that
success has been reliable electrical energy at lower and lower
prices. They ve succeeded, and have been insulated from the
public by the Public Utilities Commission which is supposed to
represent the public. But the Public Utilities Commission
doesn t really represent the public. They can easily be co-opted
by the producers of electricity. The Public Utilities Commission
also has that motivation to ensure reliable and cheap power.
Well, that s a system in which it feeds on itself. And it s
incestuous and it s very hard to break through that and realize
that there is a new era wherein decisions are made external to
that.
Of course that sounds like I m mainly criticizing the
utilities. But I think that the intervenors overreacted to what
they considered to be the selfish impenetrable utilities. I
think the utility companies are dedicated towards doing the right
thing. So for each side, that can explain the polarizations.
They re so polarized that for example, I told you about
Pacific Gas and Electric at Diablo Canyon. It would have cost
Pacific Gas and Electric a few thousand dollars of lawyer fees
and so forth to hold an afternoon of hearings to let this poor
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physics teacher have his say. They found it easier to go along
with the board chairman. They should have been arguing for the
hearing, and they would have if they d really believed in the
process. That approach, and not judging the physics teacher, I
think would have done o much. 3
Why didn t they do it? I think
they were dumb. But so much of it is dumb.
I mentioned earlier after PG&E s Diablo plant finally got
built and went into operation, then there were a lot of legal
suits because it cost so much to rebuild the plant twice. The
Public Utilities Commission of California did not allow them to
recover those extra costs by charging more for electricity.
I got involved in that in consulting for the committee of
board of directors which was empowered by the full board to
investigate and act for the company to recover malpractice
insurance because of failures of offices of the company and the
board of directors to properly manage the project. And that was
my last encounter with PG&E. Chancellor Mike Heyman got me
involved in that.
Wilmsen: As long as we re talking about Diablo Canyon, I was wondering
what effect all the demonstrations this was in the late
seventies. You ve talked about the demonstrations with the
physics teacher that were in the sixties, but then in the late
seventies there were some big demonstrations there with, at one
point, 40,000 people. It was a few months after the Three Mile
Island accident that 40,000 people demonstrated against the
Diablo Canyon reactor, and I was wondering what effect that had
on your research and teaching, if any.
Pigford: None.
Wilmsen: None? And what did you think of Governor Jerry Brown asking the
Atomic Energy Commission to deny the license to Diablo Canyon?
Pigford: Well, I ve got two reactions. First, I think it s very important
for the state to get involved in that issue. I do recall that I
thought the reasons he gave were pretty shallow. At that time I
was no longer involved in the licensing because this was around
1979 and I was no longer on the board, but I do remember him
doing that and I remember I thought his reasons were pretty weak.
I was impressed that he would take the initiative to do it; I was
underwhelmed by his reasons. I think he could have done a better
job than that.
3
See insert pages 144-150.
133
Wilmsen: What did you find weak about his reasons?
Pigford: I just don t remember them. I just remember that was my
reaction.
Thomas H. Pigford and Catherine Kennedy Cathey, married in Florence,
Alabama, December 31, 1948.
Catherine (Katy) Pigford, 1963.
Photography by Richard Edwards
A family excursion in rural Tennessee, 1969.
Tom s elder daughter Cindy and family
Tenor saxophone player
Daniel in high school, 1998.
Cindy Pigford Naylor, mid-1980s,
Daniel, with Cindy, as a member of the Cal Marching Band, 2000.
Cindy and family. From left: Matthew, Greg, Cindy, and Daniel. Also Misty,
Christmas 1999.
Matthew with roller coaster model made
from toothpicks, 2000.
Greg, Matthew, Tom, and Daniel, 1998.
Tom s younger daughter Julie and
family
Julie Pigford Brink, 1999.
Photo by Lensart Studio
Julie and Eric Brink, 1999,
Julie s children Carolyn, David, and
Cady, 1997.
Julie and Carolyn, 1999,
David, Christmas 1998. Carolyn, 2000.
Robert Pigford, Tom s brother,
1980.
Marian Pigford, Robert s wife, n.d.
Mary and Dick Smyser, Tom s sister and brother-in-law, ca. 2000,
Mary Pigford Smyser, 1963.
134
V ACCIDENTS, SAFETY, CONFLICT, AND ARMS CONTROL
The Accident at Three Mile Island. 1979: Implications for Safety,
and Industry s Response ##
Wilmsen: How did it come about that you were selected to serve on the
Presidential Commission on the accident at Three Mile Island?
Pigford: I don t really know, but I was telephoned by someone on the staff
of President Carter. I asked him why and he said, "Well, the
president thinks you re the only guy who can do the job," which
of course I didn t believe. I expect they always say that. I
thinkand this is now conjecture--! had by that time been
identified as both a member of the nuclear engineering profession
as well as a challenger of some of the things the profession did.
You can see that by my research papers on environmental effects
and so forth, and that evidently made me acceptable to both
sides, I guess. Someone has told me that. I can t remember
whom. So I was the only technical member of the commission, at
least from the nuclear engineering field.
[The commission was obviously carefully selected for
political balance. 1
The chairman was John Kemeny, president of
Dartmouth College, a mathematician, and co-creator of the BASIC
computer code. Probably the most influential member was Pat
Hagerty, an engineer and CEO of Texas Instruments. Others, in
addition to me, were Paul Marks, then vice president for health
sciences and now director of the Sloan Kettering Institute;
Russell Peterson, president of the National Audubon Society and
once an organic chemist at du Pont; Ted Taylor, a one-time
physicist who had worked at Los Alamos for a few years and was
now a freelance philosopher-scientist with independent income and
filled with wild ideas about new energy sources; Carolyn Lewis, a
Professor Pigford added the bracketed material during his review of
the draft transcript.
135
journalism professor from Columbia University; Bruce Babbit, then
governor of Arizona and once a geophysicist ; Cora Barrett,
professor of sociology at University of Wisconsin; Lloyd McBride,
president of the United Steelworkers of America; Harry McPherson,
partner in a Washington law firm and advisor to Jimmy Carter; and
Anne Trunk, resident of Middletown, Pennsylvania, a town near the
Three Mile Island (TMI) reactor.
It was ostensibly a six-month assignment. A sizable
full-time staff of engineers, physicists, medical experts,
lawyers, and a large public relations staff was assembled;
Headquarters were in downtown Washington. The commission
conducted many highly visible hearings. Congress endowed us with
full power to subpoena witnesses and documents. Our charges were
broad and allowed a wide-ranging investigation. There was much
public interest. Some people thought that we might recommend the
immediate shut-down of all commercial nuclear plants in the U.S.
Others expected us to whitewash all of the tough issues. We did
neither. Hearings were conducted in a strict legal framework,
with questions framed by members of our commission and responses
guided by batteries of lawyers representing various parties,
including the TMI plant personnel and management, the Department
of Energy, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the State of
Pennsylvania, et cetera. Court reporters produced a written
record of testimony within four hours after each hearing session.
During a dull and boring hearing in Washington, I got up to
stretch, strolled around the hallway, and met Diane Sawyer, who
was then a young TV correspondent for CBS. She was eating her
lunch. She shared her sandwich with me.
My role was a delicate one. Being the only member really
versed in nuclear power technology and safety, I am sure that
most members expected me to put up a strong defense of the safety
of nuclear power plants. I did nothing of the sort. In fact, I
was so offended by what I considered to be professionally
irresponsible training and management of the TMI facility that I
instituted on my own a tougher investigation than even the
commission s professional staff carried out. I got Kemeny, the
chairman, to hire a professional engineer to assist me, something
no other commissioner had. I hired Bruce Mann, who had been one
of my graduate students a few years previously. He was in
residence at Berkeley during the six months. He reviewed the
piles of documents that were accumulating and traveled with me to
commission hearings. We even arranged informal sessions to run
down various leads. He kept the TMI staff in Washington on their
toes.
136
As I had done in licensing board hearings for the AEC and
NRC, I insisted that all parties to the investigation, whether
nuclear protagonists or opposers, be given the right of fair
hearing. This surprised my colleagues. During our first public
hearing in Hershey, Pennsylvania, not far from the TMI site, a
group of public citizens from a nearby community wanted to
express their concern about the sloppy way the TMI plant was run.
They were not yet organized with their own legal counsel, but
they thought they had some important things to say. Our chairman
ruled that they were out of order and would not be heard without
counsel. I objected, but was overruled. I walked out of the
rest of the hearing that day, in protest. It made a delicious
story in the news the next day.
But let me first tell you what caused the TMI accident.
The TMI nuclear power plant was one of two reactors located at
Middletown, Pennsylvania. Early, on March 29, 1979, a
pressure-relief valve opened to relieve a slight over pressure in
the water-coolant--a normal operation. But the valve failed to
close, sending the plant into a shut-down condition,
automatically inserting control rods to stop the nuclear chain
reaction. Even when shut down, the nuclear fuel rods need to be
cooled to remove the heat generated by radioactive decay of the
fission products. The special emergency cooling system turned on
automatically and injected cooling water into the reactor core.
So far, everything was operating safely as designed. However,
the operators misinterpreted the reading of water level in the
reactor. They thought, incorrectly, that the reactors coolant
system was completely filled with water, something to be avoided
because a small amount of steam must be maintained at the highest
point in the coolant system to absorb small volume changes caused
by temperature fluctuations in the system.
Without thinking properly, the operators turned off the
emergency cooling pumps. The accident began at this point. For
over two hours the reactor fuel elements were without cooling
water. About half of the fuel elements melted, at about 5000 F,
and released large quantities of radioactive fission products to
the water coolant system. Enough radioactivity was released to
the containment building and to the outside to cause a general
plant emergency. Finally, after two hours of overheating and
melting, someone else came in and turned the emergency cooling
system back on. But the damage had already been done. If the
operators had simply kept their hands off the control equipment
no accident would have occurred.
Clearly, the operating staff had not been properly trained.
Their first diagnosis was wrong, and it should not have taken
them two hours to realize that rapidly rising radiation levels
137
and temperatures indicated that the fuel needed to be cooled.
But the overall system of safety awareness and supervision of
safety had also failed. Nuclear plants are complicated. They
are not like coal plants. Many things can go wrong; safety
awareness demands learning from mistakes at other nuclear plants
throughout the country. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC)
claims that it oversees a national communication system to ensure
nuclear safety. But NEC s safety system failed. Just two years
before the TMI accident a similar nuclear plant in Ohio suffered
the same stuck-open relief valve. Operators there were confused
by the seeming rise in water level. For twenty minutes confusion
prevailed, then emergency cooling was restored. The Ohio
incident was reported to the reactor manufacturer and to the NRC,
as required by procedures. But no one communicated it to the TMI
plant staff. Both the NRC and the reactor supplier, Babcock and
Wilcox, were at fault. The incident taught the Ohio plant that
better training was needed, and they implemented better training.
The incident at TMI told us that an inherently safe and well
designed plant can be dangerous in the hands of poorly trained
operators and inadequate managers who do not recognize the need
for well-trained operators. It told us that the reactor supplier
and the NRC itself were dangerously weak links in the national
system of nuclear safety.
We found many complaints that the TMI control room was
poorly designed. Certainly a better instrument to indicate
reactor water level was needed. But, in my view, these
complaints came from operators who were covering their mistakes.
For example, the operator responsible for status of valve line
ups had not noticed that a crucial valve in the emergency water
system had been closed by someone. But the position indicator
was working; a warning red light was flashing in front of him.
The real problem became evident when we asked him to recreate the
scene. He had an enormous paunch which removed the flashing
light from his field of vision. Such problems were supposed to
have been picked up during emergency drills.
Further weakness in the management of nuclear safety was
revealed by near-tragic mistakes made by the NRC staff and
commissioners three days after the accident. Within a few hours
after the accident the world-wide news media descended on the TMI
site, seeking information. The TMI management was sadly
unprepared, but the NRC stepped in and took charge. Their
on-site spokesman, Harold Denton, was able to keep information
flowing, and that began to quiet public fears. But Denton and
the NRC specialists in Washington began to hear about hydrogen
formed by reaction of Zircaloy fuel cladding with water at the
high temperatures during core melting. We later learned that
this hydrogen had already escaped into the containment building
138
and burned, without serious results. But then the NRC experts
remembered that fission-product radiation, as existed for days
after the accident itself, could decompose water into hydrogen
and oxygen. They calculated, incorrectly, that this explosive
mixture could continue to form and build up to a high enough
pressure that its chemical explosion could disrupt the reactor
vessel itself and its surrounding containment and spew
radioactivity over the countryside. The five NRC commissioners
themselves were doing their own calculations, aided by their
staff experts. Harold Denton agreed with the commissioners and
he advised Pennsylvania s Governor Richard Thornburg to order
evacuation of a rather large surrounding area. But Harold
Denton, the NRC commissioners, and NRC safety experts were making
a fundamental technical error, which was obvious to me when I
heard of their predictions. More on that later.
Fortunately, Governor Thornburg and his staff foresaw the
chaos and frantic efforts to escape the impending disaster, with
much loss of life, if he lent credibility to the claimed danger
by acting on NRC s recommendation. During the few days of the
accident and recovery he had observed that things actually moved
pretty slowly in connection with this accident. He took a wait
and see attitude. By the end of that day he was rewarded.
Enough telephone calls had reached the NRC from the nuclear
engineering community to awaken them to the technical facts.
They accepted their mistakes and called off their recommendation
for evacuation. The explosive high-pressure hydrogen bubble that
they had postulated did not exist. But all of this had been
followed with intense interest by the international community and
particularly by those residents who would have been evacuated.
Many had evacuated at their own initiative once they heard about
NRC s claims. This explains a conclusion by our commission that
the most serious health effects from the accident was the trauma
resulting three days after the accident, from NRC s foolish
errors .
And what was the mistake that NRC made? Indeed, they were
correct that hydrogen would continue to be generated by
fission-product radiolysis. But will it continue to evolve as a
gas, along with the oxygen also generated? The answer is yes if
one thinks only, and incorrectly, in terms of radiolysis at
atmospheric pressuretypical of the usual experimental
conditions when radiolysis is studied by chemists. It was such
chemists who were advising the NRC commissioners, including the
chemist who was then director of NRC s Division of Safety
Research. But they were all wrong. The many nuclear and
chemical engineers (including me) who telephoned in the correct
information pointed out that at high pressure hydrogen dissolves
and recombines. This was known even to the less sophisticated
139
reactor operators. They knew that they added hydrogen to the
pressurized water coolant to suppress any net evolution of
hydrogen from radiolysis. Thus, the hydrogen at TMI could only
build up to that partial pressure sufficient for its
recombination into water.
Within a few weeks Congress reacted to the sloppiness and
errors of the NRC--as evidenced by the TMI accident and demoted
the NRC chairman.
The closed sessions of the commission were the most
interesting, especially after we had become acquainted with each
other and had learned enough of facts and opinions from testimony
to frame the issues for our decision. Russell Petersen made many
passionate pleas for a nationwide abandonment of nuclear power
because it is unsafe. When asked for evidence, he cited the
human errors at TMI that caused the accident to become serious.
There, training and supervision were deplorable, which did
logically raise the question of how other nuclear plants are
managed, and it questioned the adequacy of the NRC oversight for
safety. He was correct, but we had already had a look at how
other nuclear plants were run, where the preponderance of
evidence showed careful operation. NRC oversight did need
strengthening. We ultimately recommended a new and tougher
system for oversight and for management awareness, rather than
abandoning what had proved so far, with the exception of TMI, to
be a system of safe operation.
Ted Taylor turned out to be the gadfly of the commission.
He claimed that it would be a favor to abandon all nuclear power.
He said that in his backyard on Long Island he was conducting
some experiments involving heating buckets of water with
sunlight. He promised that within a few weeks, well before our
report was due, his new invention would obsolete and replace all
commercial power plants, whether operating on nuclear fuel, coal,
or natural gas. Pat Hagerty and I had never heard of Taylor s
invention, but we knew something about the problems of producing
central-station electric power from solar energy. Yes, one can
imagine enormous mirrors and lenses that focus the sun on a dark
target which becomes very hot and can heat water to the high
temperatures and pressures needed to drive turbines to generate
electricity. But a system to generate the billions of kilowatts
typical of just one central station plant would be so far from
anything reasonable and economical as to be preposterous. Taylor
said that he had a secret substance that, when dissolved in
water, would collect sunlight and do the job cheaper than has
ever been accomplished in power-producing technology. We gently
suggested that he bring us the results of his experiments, which
he had promised would be within a few weeks. We never heard from
140
him again on that subject. He spawned a few other claims of this
sort.
Ann Trunk, the housewife from Middletown, Pennsylvania,
proved to be one of the stars of the commission. She was quiet,
aware of her lack of technical knowledge, but listened carefully
and politely asked simple questions when she didn t understand.
Her one-page personal supplementary statement was concisely
stated, to the point, nonpolitical, and contributed much to the
authority of our report.
In October our commission met with President Jimmy Carter in
his cabinet meeting room to deliver our report. He listened
politely but did not ask a single question. He showed little of
the interest that I had expectedexpected because he had also
gone to Georgia Tech and then served in the nuclear navy under
Admiral Rickover, where he became, as he called it, a
"NEW-KEW-LAR" engineer. I have seen no evidence that he himself
acted on any of our recommendations. He seemed more focused on
having his photograph taken shaking hands with each of us as we
lined up and lock-stepped out of the cabinet room.
But Congress did act. When we appeared before them they
asked hard and pointed questions and were especially incensed
about the many inadequacies of the NRC, which had contributed so
much to the accident occurring and which had mistakenly escalated
the fear of the accident into a near disaster. They called for a
major revamping of NRC.
An interesting incident happened with my old friend Hans
Mark during the TMI investigation. Hans was then Secretary of
the Air Force. He called one evening and asked to meet me at a
quiet restaurant nearby. Instead of being chauffcured in his
elegant limousine, he arrived in an old beat-up Chevrolet, which
he said he used when he was attending to personal investigations
on his own. He had read news accounts of proposals being made by
some commissioners that TMI should lead to a moratorium on
nuclear power in the U.S. He said that he was concerned because
without nuclear power much more oil would be required to generate
electricity and there would be less petroleum products available
to propel his airplanes. It sounded far-fetched, because little
oil is used to generate electricity; coal would be the
alternative to nuclear, not oil. I think that simply his
political antenna was alerted, and he wanted to find some way to
become involved in the politics of the commission study. But he
persisted. He said that for national security interests, I
should talk immediately to Carter s national security advisor,
Zbignew Brezinsky. It had to be done that evening. I was
curious, so I agreed to go along with it.
141
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Hans explained that, by protocol, he was not free to contact
Brezinsky directly. It had to be done by one of the several air
force generals who were his aides. We drove to the Pentagon.
Hans office was an enormous cavern, guarded by a battery of
MP s. His desk was flanked by flags of the nation and air force,
and countless models of military aircraft were suspended from the
ceiling. Hans directed his sergeant to telephone one of his
generals, who was supposed to be at Hans beck and call in case
of national emergency. He planned to direct the general to
contact Brezinsky and arrange a late-evening meeting. The
general s wife answered and said that the general had been
playing late-afternoon golf and was uncertain when he would
return. This was before the days of cellular phones. Hans
seemed a little embarrassed, but he then directed a call to the
other general on call. That general was out for an evening at
the officer s club. Hans was a little flushed. He ruefully
admitted that an air force secretary doesn t have the necessary
clout in Washington. Hans said that he would arrange the meeting
for the next day. I never heard from him again during the TMI
investigation.
The report of the TMI Commission was well received by
government and industry. It had handled the politics carefully.
It recommended [a] revamping of the Nuclear Regulatory
Commission. It pointed out how a well-intentioned utility
company, the General Public Utilities that owned TMI, had vastly
underestimated or completely abrogated its responsibilities for
safety management at all levels, and it pointed out that the
entire nuclear industry in the U.S. was extremely vulnerable to
mistakes of one of its member companies and to inadequacies of
the national system of assuring and regulating nuclear safety.
This led the industries to create their own Institute of Nuclear
Power Operationsof which I was its first advisory council
chairmandiscussed elsewhere in this oral history.]
2
What effects did the accident have on your research interests and
on teaching?
Well, I had to give up teaching. The chancellor allowed me to
give up all of my administrative duties, and teaching as well,
for six months, I think it was. The commission was appointed for
a six-month term.
On the research, I couldn t drop the research. It was
blossoming so much, but I turned over the preparation of our
reports to a team consisting of Professor Chambre and two or
2
End of inserted material.
142
three of the postdoctoral research scholars who were on the team,
and they did a fine job. I think I did continue actively in the
research seminars when I was in town. I had to do a lot of
traveling.
Wilmsen: What were the implications of the accident for industry?
Pigford: Well, quite profound. First, the industry quickly realized that
this would give an enormous impetus--! say deservedly, they would
say inevitably, maybe not deservedlyto question and challenge
the safety of nuclear power.
A more powerful reaction in industry was the demonstration
that the industry might not be able to survive another accident.
And they don t mean just the industry that owns the reactor, but
the whole industry, because the whole industry is deeply affected
by poor performance in any one of the plants.
It was especially important because the utility that owned
the plant had to purchase electric energy from other suppliers
outside its network to supply its customers. It is obligated to
maintain a supply. That s very expensive. It nearly went
bankrupt in doing that, and I think that was the most shocking
thing to all the other utilities.
So their [the other utilities ] reaction is first they
contributed their own money to help the utility survive- -the
owner of the one that had the accident. Then they stepped in
with a very powerful response.
They had learned that the accident occurred because of human
error, not of any technical deficiency in the safety systems.
That reflected upon the management, the training of operators,
the training of engineers, training of technicians. When that
training is faulty, it reflects on the plant manager and finally
all the way up through to the chief executive officer of the
company. So the industrythose utilities that own and operate
nuclear power plants formed a new safety agency of their own,
separate from the government.
They call it an institute. First they formed a new
insurance system such that each utility with a nuclear power
plant could purchase insurance against a situation in which it
had to purchase electrical energy from an outside source to
deliver to its customers. That insurance company was set up, and
then this institute that was set up whose home was in Atlanta,
Georgiahad the function of setting its own standards for
management and training and operation. It would inspect
periodically each utility and each reactor station to ensure that
143
those standards were met. And if they were not met, the owner of
that reactor could not qualify for the insurance against loss of
power. So it had teeth in it.
I know it very well because I was asked to be chairman of
the advisory council for this new groupwhich is called INPO,
Institute of Nuclear Power Operations and I was very much
impressed by the intent and seriousness of all the utility
companies with nuclear power plants throughout the country. They
would send their chief--CEO--to meetings of INPO to show their
intent at the highest level.
f
And INPO was tough. It was headed by a recently retired
navy admiral who had been in Admiral Rickover s fleet of nuclear
ships and submarines. This was Admiral Eugene Wilkinson. He was
the skipper of the first nuclear submarine, the Nautilus. And
our advisory council would review their work quarterly and see
how INPO was doing.
Then I was consulting separately for a couple of utility
companies and I could see how they turned to when the INPO
inspection team came there and inspected their operations.
Turned out to be a very potent group.
It caused a lot of expense to the utilities. They had to
beef up their training staff and so forth. Even their responses
to questions from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission were reviewed
by the INPO investigating teams, and it developed a good record.
There were very few instances of similar breakdowns in operative
performance. Not just operators, I know INPO did arrange to get
one CEO dismissed because they felt that his company was not
taking seriously their commitment. I think INPO was
communicating with the stockholders and the board of directors
and got the CEO canned. That operation turned out to be very
effective. It has an excellent record. At least there haven t
been anymore accidents of that [Three Mile Island] magnitude in
the U.S.
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
INPO was copied by other countries, who first could
subscribe as observers. The utilities in other countries could
subscribe as observers to the INPO operations and then later they
set up a world organization modeled after INPO with headquarters
in London and Tokyo. So that illustrates the reaction of the
utility industry.
INPO dealt primarily with management issues?
How to administer the plant. They would even review the CEO
himself. They would ask if he knew about this incident and how
144
his staff was responding to it.
involved.
They expected him to be
I guess that s the navy approach towards management, which
has a good record in the fleet. Of course they lost two
submarines, but except for those, it s a good record.
Wilmsen: Were there any results of the Three Mile Island accident with
regard to changes in reactor design or safety features?
Pigford: Oh, sure. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission had its own team.
First they had to correct their own operations. See, they set up
INPO shortly after our commission report went in, and the
commission I was on was disbanded. So I went from the commission
to being head of the advisory council of INPO, but that was just
a consulting job. Immediately, training was challenged. And
now, after that, every plant has its own simulator which is a
full scale control room with the exact replica of all switches
and knobs and displays. It runs a computer instead of running
the reactor, and the computer can be programmed to simulate all
sorts of design conditions including some pretty bad accidents.
One of the inadequacies our commission found at Three Mile
Island was that those people had been trained not on an exact
replica. They had even been trained on systems that were quite
different from their own reactor. Some of the operators
apparently got confused on which knob does what and so forth. So
that s one of the examples: the training simulators are required.
Management Blunders in the Construction of the Diablo Canyon
Nuclear Power Plant
Wilmsen: Now in 1981 Nunzio Palladino, who was Reagan s appointee to chair
the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, told the House subcommittee
that the problems at Diablo Canyon had lessened his confidence in
the licensing process. What kind of effect, if any, did the
problems at Diablo have on your assessment of the licensing
process?
Pigford: [Let me begin by describing my first interaction with the Diablo
Canyon project.
3
In 1967 I was appointed by the Atomic Energy
3
Professor Pigford wrote this description of his involvement with
issues concerning the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant during his review
of the draft transcript. This insert replaces the portions of the
145
Commission [AEC] to serve on a three-member Atomic Safety and
Licensing Board to review the license application to construct
Diablo Canyon. Congress set up these boards in 1963. I was the
first person appointed to the national panel from which these
boards are drawn. I had served on several such boards before
being appointed to the Diablo Canyon board. Nowadays the members
of the national panel are officially designated as Administrative
Law Judges.
By the time the application reached the licensing board, it
had already been reviewed and judged adequate by the staff of the
AEC. Our board reviewed the piles of safety analysis reports
compiled by Pacific Gas and Electric [PG&E] . There was an
enormous number of reports from PG&E consultants on geology and
seismicity, testifying to the adequacy of the site and adequacy
of the seismic design. There were several complaints from nearby
landowners, fishermen, and other people potentially affected by
the plant. The board conducted public hearings, ostensibly to
resolve these disputes.
The hearing was held at nearby San Luis Obispo. PG&E
brought a large battery of legal counsel. There were several
lawyers from the AEC. The intervenors had no lawyers. One
intervenor was a physics teacher from Santa Barbara, a Mr. Vrana.
He was also an amateur geologist who had devoted much of his
spare time to tramping over the coastal lands near the proposed
Diablo Canyon site. He claimed that the trenching ordered by the
PG&E geologists actually revealed possibilities of previously
undiscovered earthquake faults that were not taken into account
in the seismic analysis. He requested the board to extend the
hearing for a few hours so that he could present his case.
Lawyers from PG&E vigorously objected.
I requested the board chairman, a Washington lawyer named
Gleason, to extend the hearing. The board was charged with
giving the public a chance to express their case, and Mr. Vrana s
concern was relevant to one of the most important issues of
reactor siting. Chairman Gleason overruled me on the grounds
that Mr. Vrana did not have the credentials to make his case. I
later learned that Gleason 1
s overrule was motivated by his hurry
to return to Washington, where he was in a hot political campaign
for election as County Manager of Montgomery County in Maryland,
a powerful county just north of the District of Columbia.
Gleason was one of those lawyers in private practice who served
interview transcript in which these issues, including Mr. Vrana s objection
to the power plant (originally on page 106), were discussed.
146
as consultants to the AEC and were appointed to chair the Atomic
Safety and Licensing Boards.
Also, during the hearing, I learned from the AEC staff that
some radioactive iodine would be released to the environment in
plant cooling water. To assess safety, they assumed that people
might drink some of that water that would flow off the site.
They calculated the potential iodine dose assuming that only
adults would drink the water. The potential effect is for iodine
to metabolize to the thyroid, where it resides and decays,
possibly causing thyroid carcinoma. The AEC staff claimed that
the iodine concentration would be low enough to be safe.
But years previously, national and international bodies on
radiation protection had established that in the case of iodine
assimilation the dose should be calculated assuming infants drink
the contaminated water or drink milk from cows that have grazed
on grass contaminated with radioactive iodine. The important
difference is that the thyroid of the infant is about twenty
times smaller than that of an adult, so radioactive iodine
reaching the infant s thyroid becomes more concentrated and has a
far greater chance of inducing cancer. Also, thyroid carcinoma
in an infant is more life threatening than it is for adults. I
requested PG&E and the AEC staff to explain why they had ignored
this in their calculations. No explanation was given. I
concluded that the safety analysis did not, in this respect, meet
the government standards for safety. Gleason urged that we look
into it later, but no explanation was heard from PG&E and AEC.
Gleason hurried back to his political campaign, after
scheduling a series of telephone conference calls with me and
Hugh Paxton, the other technical member of the board, to
formulate the board s decision. Meanwhile, I was much concerned
about the failure in our hearing to address these issues. I
consulted a member of the law faculty at Boalt Hall, Berkeley s
law school. Clearly, part of my concern was failure to give due
process to Mr. Vrana to make his case. This was not a technical
issue, but I was determined to pursue it. The law professor, who
later became a member of the California Supreme Court, pulled a
thick law book from his shelf, opened it to an appropriate page,
and suggested that I read it. It was all about responsibilities
for due process. He said that he could not advise me, but that
the book might be helpful. From this I learned to couch my
concern in legal language, which became part of my ultimate
dissent .
My two colleagues on the board seemed surprised that I would
tie up PG&E s project with such mundane issues. When the
chairman finally sent me a draft of the board decision to sign, I
147
simply returned it unsigned, accompanied with my written dissent.
It caused considerable uproar throughout the country. A stalwart
member of the nuclear engineering community had let them down!
PG&E appealed my decision to the next higher legal
authority, which was the Commissioners of the AEC sitting
together as an appellate court. In their great wisdom, the
Commissioners found that ignoring Mr. Vrana s plea was "harmless
error". Also, by that time the AEC staff had been stimulated to
redo their calculations of iodine dose. They requested some
design modification and concluded that my concern about
radioactive iodine was now satisfied.
Thus, PG&E received the AEC license to construct Diablo. In
retrospect, as will be revealed here in subsequent discussion, a
previously unknown earthquake fault near Diablo Canyon was later
discovered, although it may not have been connected with the
fault that Mr. Vrana had suspected. It led to expensive
reconstruction. It showed that the original seismic
investigation was inadequate.
Board Chairman James Gleason was not elected as County
Manager.
Question: Who discovered the new earthquake fault?
Pigford: After about five years of construction, when Diablo was nearing
completion and several billion dollars had been invested, a
scientist at the U.S. Geological Survey had learned of some
seismic data gathered by the Shell Development Company in
connection with prospecting for undersea petroleum reserves
offshore of southern California. The data had been gathered many
years before the Diablo project was conceived. The scientist
informed the AEC. The AEC concluded that Diablo, as now
constructed, could not withstand the greater shaking that could
result from the newly discovered offshore fault. Much stronger
supports for the reactor equipment would be required. Much of the
plant would have to be rebuilt.
Then PG&E and its contractors made a bad design mistake that
resulted in improper installation of the new earthquake supports.
This was discovered several years after the first reconstruction
began.
Question: What happened?
Pigford: Diablo Canyon is an installation of two nuclear plants. As the
new earthquake supports were being installed, workmen discovered
that in one of the plants the heavy equipment components did not
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fit the earthquake supports. The reactor equipment could not be
installed within the reactor building. The infamous "mirror-
image problem" had been discovered! Again, construction was
halted.
It happened this way. Like many electrical utilities, PG&E
liked to have mirror-image installation of otherwise identical
equipment in adjacent generating facilities. Typically, a
control room would contain the control panels of two adjacent
facilities. It looked real neat to have one control panel the
mirror image of the other. In a cylindrical reactor building the
reactor vessel is mounted in the center, and peripheral equipment
such as pumps, valves, and heat exchangers, is arranged in the
annular space between the reactor vessel and the reactor
building. It presented another opportunity for a mirror-image
layout, although there was no fundamental technical reason for
doing so.
It was easy to design the mirror-image layout. PG&E did its
own plant engineering and design, but a seismic-design consulting
firm named John Blume had the job of designing the layout for
seismic supports in the reactor building. It was so simple. A
design would be made for one of the units on transparent paper.
The paper would be flipped over to create the mirror-image design
of the second unit. Unfortunately, PG&E used two identical
designs, not mirror-images, to install the equipment supports.
However, the reactor equipment was fabricated with nozzles,
pipes, and controls according to a mirror-image layout. Thus, in
one of the Diablo plants the equipment did not fit the new
seismic supports. In that plant the seismic supports and
associated equipment had to be reinstalled before the plant could
fit together. This was very expensive. For the second time,
much of Diablo Canyon had to be reconstructed.
By that time, in the late seventies, federal responsibility
for safety oversight of commercial nuclear facilities was in the
hands of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission [NRC], which had been
split off of the old AEC. The NRC staff had become disgusted
with PG&E s poor management of Diablo Canyon engineering, its
inadequate quality control, and its seeming carelessness in
monitoring and documenting the design and construction. NRC
ordered an unprecedented complete design and construction review
of Diablo Canyon. PG&E was required to document and review
essentially every design decision and construction action of the
entire plant, to ensure that no other errors had occurred. It
was a massive undertaking that required several years of a staff
much larger than that required to design and construct the plant.
Meanwhile, PG&E was paying interest on its construction loans,
adding billions to the ultimate cost of Diablo Canyon.
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Diablo Canyon is an extreme example of why some nuclear
plants have cost so much.
Question: What was your later connection with the Diablo Canyon project?
Pigford: In the mid-1980s I became a consultant to a special committee of
the PG&E board of directors on a major litigation. It came about
in this way. After the dual-reactor plant at Diablo Canyon was
finally completed, PG&E applied to the California Public
Utilities Commission [PUC] for permission to recover the cost of
overruns at Diablo Canyon. It was a major issue, amounting to
potential recovery of many billions of dollars. The issue was
hotly contested, and that litigation took several years. PUC
concluded that PG&E was not entitled to cost recovery because the
overuns were due mainly to poor management. PG&E s board of
directors was then advised by its own legal consultant that they,
as well as the PG&E management, were likely subject to
substantial claims by stockholders on behalf of the company. The
Board then appointed a special board committee, consisting of
those directors who had not been directors during the period of
questionable management and large cost overruns. The committee
was empowered to investigate, on behalf of "the
company," and
take whatever action it deemed necessary. I suspect that the
board never expected the committee to do anything.
The committee hired its own legal consultant, a large law
firm named Heller Ehrman. Heller Ehrman then hired me as its
technical consultant. My job was to review the entire record of
Diablo Canyon over its some twenty-year history, beginning with
site selection and continuing through construction and beginning
of operation. My assigned task was to determine the truth of the
matter, whether or not the PG&E management and its board had
acted responsibly with regard to project management and control.
From this, along with legal considerations, the committee could
decide whether to seek damages on behalf of the company and its
stockholders. This was a far different assignment than I have
had in other cases as an expert witness for one of the parties in
a litigation. There I was expected to testify in behalf of only
one side of the litigation. That always troubled me. There is
never only one side in terms of fault and responsibility. Here I
was not so constrained.
Heller Ehrman collected all of the relevant documents, which
filled a room in their offices on Post Street in San Francisco.
I poured through the documents, sorting out the issues based on
my experience with Atomic Safety and Licensing Boards. For help
on management issues, I engaged my old friend, Ken Davis, who had
recently retired as a senior vice president at Bechtel
Corporation, a well-known engineering firm in San Francisco. It
150
took several months. During the process I had to learn more
about engineering design of equipment to resist seismic shaking.
I discovered a fundamental error made by one of PG&E s
engineering consultants, a professor in civil engineering at Cal
Berkeley. He misinterpreted one of the seismic design
requirements established by the NRC. The mistake should have
been recognized by PG&E s engineering staff.
I could not fault PG&E s reliance on its geological
consultant, who failed to seek data from Shell Development that
would have revealed the offshore earthquake fault. PG&E had
hired one of the top notch consultants in the business, a
professor of geology at Stanford, a man of international
reputation. In hindsight, he should have been more thorough.
The mirror- image problem revealed numerous blunders by PG&E
managers at so many levels. There was lack of timely review and
follow through. PG&E had in place a management review process
that would involve top management and the board in reviewing
major decisions. The board minutes revealed little attention to
what was happening. NRC requests for information and explanation
were not carefully responded to.
I provided extensive documentation of the events for Heller
Ehrman s review. Heller Ehrman passed it on to the board
committee, which decided to proceed against management and the
rest of the board on behalf of the company. It must have been a
shock to some, who evidently expected little to come of the
committee s investigation. Led by PG&E s new CEO, who had not
been involved as manager during the Diablo mistakes, the current
management and the board accepted full responsibility. Damages,
to the extent of a few hundred million dollars, were paid by the
PG&E s insurer. The funds were deposited in PG&E s treasury.
Some of PG&E s top management retired early.]
1
Wilmsen: How did the problems at Diablo affect your assessment of the
overall safety of nuclear power?
Pigford: Well, again, it was a shock in my confidence in the ability of
the engineering companies to perform according to specification.
And some of it spins off on the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
They were shaken.
Wilmsen: Then did INPO deal with those kinds of issues as well?
End of inserted material.
151
Pigford: Oh, yes, indeed.
Wilmsen: So things improved after that?
Pigford: Yes. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission influenced improvement
and they had to also improve their own inspection. They had to
improve their earthquake fault evaluation, which went back to the
U.S. Geological Survey. And INPO certainly emphasized that in
the plant inspections. In the follow up, how do you know it s
built according to what you see on paper? It takes a lot of
effort to find that out.
[Interview 5: November 18, 1999] ##
Pigford: I also think that settlement [between the PG&E company and the
management and board] was large enough that it resulted in being
able to cover all of the stockholder lawsuits that were still
coming in. I m not positive about that because they came in
later, after my part of the work was finished.
And that took a lot of my time. But, like so many things I
get into, it was a worthwhile diversion and very interesting
interesting to see how big corporation executives act and
respond.
Wilmsen: Did you mention whether they could recover the costs from the
rate-payers?
Pigford: No, they could not. The PUC did not allow that.
Wilmsen: Yes, that s what I thought you had said.
Pigford: Now, what was recovered as damages from the investigation that my
team was involved in was strictly malpractice insurance.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: How did PG&E finally recover the cost overruns to the plant?
Well, they were given a special permission by the Public
Utilities Commission. I don t know the proper terminology for
this, but effectively they could treat the electricity production
from Diablo Canyon as being outside of the normal control of PUC;
it gave them the opportunity of wholesaling. They did a
wonderful job excellent recordof managing the plant, and it
turns out they ve made a lot of money off of it. They ve more
than recovered the costs.
They re now said to be considering selling the plant, but
for an entirely different reason: because of the recentwithin
152
the past few yearscourt decision to deregulate the utilities
that produce electricity. I don t understand the details of that
completely, but it has become less attractive to utility
companies to own high-capital-costs plants that are producing
electricity.
So that s the story about the big case with the PG&E
directors .
Reflections on Resolving Conflicts between the Nuclear Industry
and Its Opponents
Wilmsen: Interesting. I guess this is somewhat related- -not really, but
it has to do with controversy, too. Another follow-up question
from last time. I asked you about what you think could be done
when the two sides disagree and they just can t get together, and
you said that you thought that if people could really create an
environment where they can actually sit down and really talk to
each other with a good moderator, that would be one thing.
Pigford: Yes.
Wilmsen: And you said you ve seen that happen. I was wondering if you
could just describe an example of a case where you ve seen that
happen.
Pigford: Well, INPO [Institute of Nuclear Power Operations] and its
function has many such cases. I ve described INPO before.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: INPO is something the industry itself set up outside of the
regulations and rules of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
Unfortunately the Nuclear Regulatory Commission cannot do that
because it has set up rules which are typical of federal
regulations, and it must be done in a legal framework with
exparte communication laws and all of that. INPO doesn t have
that problem, and I think the weight of the INPO conclusions,
which are published, as to whether a company is doing things
properly or not is enormous almost maybe more so than the weight
of the conclusions by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
INPO can at any time ask the operating people or the
management people that they leave their lawyers at home and get
both sides of an issue in a room. And it takes a good moderator.
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They have skilled people, who are respected, to do that, and I
think it has worked beautifully.
Now, to be sure, these are people who are not so polarized
against INPO. Most people associate deep polarizations with
people who are against big business or big corporations who are
polluting the environment. I think most people I know are
environmentalists, actually, in big corporations and otherwise,
but I won t dwell on that distinction since I ve defined what I
mean. Take, for example, the strong conflict between
environmentalists like the Sierra Club and the utilities that
build nuclear power plants. They become far more polarized than
they have to be. Once it gets to the arena of a formalized
hearing for decision processes under the purview of the Nuclear
Regulatory Commission, they adopt those rules of formal legal
communication. But they can always say just between themselves,
"Let s get together for a weekend without the lawyers present
talk to each other." I m sorry to say it is seldom done.
It may be because of so many reasons. First, there s
usually so much money at stake, I guess a construction permit,
and I think also it s due to blindness on both sides. I think
many environmental organizations I ve worked with, and tried to
work with, sometimes don t want the issues settled. For example,
when we decided to decommission and remove our research reactor
on the Berkeley campus, there were some who were very unhappy
that it went away because it became a good whipping boy to show
what they were against and to get their name in the newspapers.
And likewise, you can see, surely, that the management of the
utility companies don t enjoy face-to-face attacks from
environmentalists. But real and sincere communication can be
done. After all, that s the principle by which our former
senator, George Mitchell, negotiated for the peace in Ireland.
He was a well-known political figure, no longer in government,
but quite experienced in trying to see both sides. He went there
as a mediator without any authority and apparently that worked,
or at least it s working better than it was before.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: And we see examples of that in Israel versus the Palestinians,
and I think those techniques should be employed.
Wilmsen: What kind of work have you done with environmentalists?
Pigford: Oh, I ve given a lot of them free consultingthe Sierra Club
and given many talks invited talks to their meetings. I guess
that s one reason I was selected to serve on the commission on
Three Mile Island.
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Pigford: The people in the White House were looking for somebody who
wouldn t be strongly objected to, and--I understand they had
smoked out both sides on this issue. Many of the papers I have
written have challenged the safety work of the utilities- -the
engineers and the regulatorson the safety of nuclear
facilities and that has appealed to environmentalists.
I guess I m identified now as both a supporter of their
Yucca Mountain project in Nevada to build high level waste
repositories, because they had sponsored some of my research and
they re using some of the theoretical methods that I and my
colleagues and students developed to predict safety. Also I ve
found myself identified as a friend of one of the most active
environmental organizations that s opposing the plant.
Wilmsen: Which one is that?
Pigford: The name is something like Citizens for Safe Energy. And also
the staff of the State of Nevadathey have a technical staff and
they re much opposed to the project. Each of these
organizations the project itself plus its opponentshave good
points .
Wilmsen: I actually have questions on Yucca Mountain for later on.
Pigford: Of course there could be a conflict of interest if I m helping
both sides. And if it came into a legal situation, I would
recuse myself, which I would be very happy to do, but I feel free
to help each side on points that I think are worth helping them
on. As long as they re trying to design a good repository for
high level waste, I want to help them. As long as there is
argument on what is the proper safety standard, I am very much
against proposals for more lenient standards for Yucca Mountain.
Wilmsen: What does the Department of Energy propose?
Pigford: I just turned in over the weekend, at the request of the National
Academies of Science and Engineering, my evaluation of the EPA-
proposed safety standard. It has some terrible inadequacies. If
adopted, it would in some respects allow more leniency with
regard to protecting public health and safety than anything that
we would allow today for a licensed nuclear facility. And in a
couple of places that s true of the Nuclear Regulatory
Commission, and in also the Department of Energy.
155
Wilmsen: Is this environmental group, though, in Nevada looking to build
the best possible repository, or do they want to not have one at
all in Nevada?
Pigford: I think they would say yes to both of those, but they are most
vocal on not wanting that one in Nevada.
Wilmsen: Okay. Well, we can come back to Yucca Mountain.
Pigford: Okay.
Wilmsen: I wanted to cover some of your kind of advisory-committee-type
activities and then get into your work on the geologic
repositories: Yucca Mountain and WIPP, the Waste Isolation Pilot
Project.
Safety Reviews of the River Bend, Louisiana, and Rancho Seco.
California Nuclear Power Plants
Wilmsen: You were on some advisory committees on nuclear reactor safety
and operations. One was for the River Bend Nuclear Power Plant
in Louisiana, and also the Sacramento Municipal Utilities
District [SMUD].
Pigford: Yes.
Wilmsen: Can you describe what working on those advisory committees
entailed?
Pigford: Well, the one at River Bend had a clear charter. We were a
committee to report to the board of directors of the Gulf States
Utility Company, which is--or was at that time the owner of the
River Bend Nuclear Plant. We were to meet periodically, like
three or four times a yearfirst, before the plant was built, to
review the plans, to review the progress towards construction,
and mainly to review those issues that were related to safety of
the public. Of course, practically all of the work is somehow
related to public safetythe adequacy of the design itself for
safety.
General Electric Company was the designer and supplier of
the steam generating system, and we would meet with GE personnel
to review their designs and see how they were getting along, and
evaluating the many, many safety issues that come up.
156
We would report periodically to the board. The board,
interestingly enough, did not want any written reports from us.
They wanted entirely verbal reports, and we were happy to comply.
I ve seen this approach many times. I think it s because in the
modern realm of discovery and the sunshine law, any member of the
public can get most of the documents in any recurrent meetings
like that, and they just didn t want to have these on record.
Then as the plant got built, our committee itself did ask
for a few changes. Most of what we did was to see if what had
been developed as the criteria for safety would be adequately met
by the design. In some cases we didn t see they were adequately
met, and this applies both to management as well as to physical
systems.
In some cases we found that the company personnel in places
were weak and needed better training. I do remember in one case
we found that one of the managers of one of their departments was
so weak they should transfer him to another plant that was
nonnuclear. And they did. Maybe they just let him go, I m not
sure. So anything that had a connection with safety we got into.
Then as the plant ran, we would periodically review how training
was done to new people coming into the work force: how their
training was reassessed, or rejuvenated periodically.
And in any complex system like this, there are always new
discoveries. Something goes wrong. Something wears out and has
to be replaced. That s a safety issue.
Then the Nuclear Regulatory Commission itself has new
questions that come up from other plants that they want to
address for this plant, and so it was an active business just
following that.
I eventually stopped consulting for them when--I guess it
was a few years after I retired the plant was bought out by
another company which decided it wanted to have the business of
operating nuclear plants throughout the country. Gulf State
Utilities had only this one nuclear plant and didn t want another
one because it was such a pain in the neck to manage with all of
these reviews going on. So they sold it very happily and have
stuck to producing electricity from natural gas.
Then with regard to Rancho Seco [owned and operated by
SMUD] , this was somewhat different. The plant had been running
several years. The reactor was built by Babcock and Wilcox, an
engineering company like Bechtel. In fact, Babcock and Wilcox
also was the company that built Three Mile Island.
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The plant ran fairly well, but it kept getting into problems
which I think were mainly management problems. I did not yet
have any connection with it, and it got on the list of badly run
plants published by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. That is a
list that people don t want to be on because it affects their
credit rating, their ability to raise money by floating bonds.
Rancho Seco is the kind of organization that never should
have built a nuclear power plant. It s a small utility, like a
co-op, not privately owned, not owned by the state, just
officially a publicly-owned utility. I don t think they made
much electricity in any other way even; they may have made a
little. They weren t really able to cope with the complexity of
management- -dealing with regulations and so forthand after some
bitter findings, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission required them
to be shut down for a year, which cost them a terribly large loss
of money to buy replacement power.
Then the board of directors of this utility had been
entirely different than the board of PG&E. These directors run
for office, get elected by the people in the vicinity: by
housewives, dairy farmers, so forth and so on. That s not to
disparage those people. It s important to have people from the
public, but they were without any professional experience in
management. So they thought they could make up for that by
hiring a well-paid employee to manage the plant.
Well, plants aren t that easy to manage. It has to have the
board behind it. The board officially was responsible, tried to
do its job, and it nit-picked on things that were the wrong
things to worry about. It got into a terrible management
problem; so then there was a referendum initiated by the people
in the vicinity that they shut down the plant permanently. It
got modified to say that they should have a special study by an
independent engineering organization be completed in one year and
then have a special committee review the results of that study to
advise the board of directors whether they should abandon the
plant completely. And I was one of the people selected to serve
on that special committee, which was a review committee.
We reviewed it for one year, and the special engineering
firm which was evaluating what had to be done to get the plant
started up didn t come out with a glowing report; it didn t come
out with a terribly negative report, either. I think it wanted
to get a contract to continue its evaluation. As I recall, I
think our committee concluded that we knew enough. But could the
committee reach a conclusion?
158
It turned out it couldn t. So we each wrote our own
reports, and I wrote my report concluding that the operating
utility, which is SMUD, had no business running the nuclear plant
and they should try and sell it. It was already shut down.
Well, that completed my involvement.
It s interesting. They couldn t sell it. There were some
offers but they had so many contingencies in them, they weren t
really attractive. So the plant is still officially owned by
that utility district.
And it s not decommissioned. They don t have enough money
to decommission it, so there it is. It s not running, anyway.
Wilmsen: And so it just sits there?
Pigford: Yes. And all of its radioactive fuel is still there spent fuel.
Wilmsen: They must have some costs just in keeping it cool.
Pigford: Oh, sure. They have to even have a guard force to prevent people
from stealing the spent fuel and extracting plutonium. They are
legally obligated, and it s an expensive legacy.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: Now, they can not decommission it until they have a place to send
their spent fuel. In that article Carter and I wrote about
getting Yucca Mountain right, we strongly urged that there be a
national interim storage facility for purposes just like that.
And many utilities some of them running out of storage capacity
on site for spent fuelneed that.
The SP-100 Project; Nuclear Power for Space Applications, 1986-
1990
Wilmsen: Then in the late 1980s, you were a member of General Electric "s
advisory committee on nuclear safety for the government- sponsored
SP-100 project to develop nuclear power for space applications.
Pigford: Oh, yes. This was not mainly a safety committee, although safety
is always part of any design development in the nuclear field.
GE had this contract with the Department of Energy- -and some
of the finances came from NASAto develop a functioning nuclear
reactor in space. The view from the sponsoring agency was that
159
devices in space were getting so popular that at some power
leveleach unit has its own power source in spacethey were
going to need something better than batteries or photocells; they
needed something in the hundreds of kilowatt range, which is a
rather small nuclear power plant.
It couldn t begin to be economical, but economics were not
the main criterion. They wanted something that could fly into
space and be reliable for decades, possibly even to power manned
trips to Mars, or outlying planets. This required much heavier
vehicles than those that had gone to those places already. And
so it was, from a technical point of view, a fascinating project.
I remember one of the problems I learnedone that I had
never encountered before arises from the fact that there s a lot
of debris in space circulating around. It s partly from
abandoned vehicles satellites some of which had partly burned
up. Some of them are from normal space debris, like meteorites
and other debris in space. Some of them are tiny specks of dust,
some of them like grains of sand, some of them even like marbles
or a hammer. Even the grains of sand, if they impinge upon this
nuclear power system, can punch a hole in the metal structure and
cause the coolant to leak out.
This was designed with molten lithium metal which is, from a
heat-transfer point of view, the most effective coolant we know
about. If it leaks out, it would be lost to space and the
reactor might not be cooled anymore. It would have to shut
itself down. It s not a safety issue until the reactor finally
reaches the atmosphere. Even if you don t have such a projectile
causing loss of coolant, the system has to be designed so that
ultimately when the reactor reenters the atmosphere, it s
protected from overheating and can be collected and stored so it
does not contaminate the environment. That was mainly where
safety came in.
Everything about that reactor was new and different,
was a lot of fun to work on.
And it
Wilmsen: Now, we talked a little bit before about the problems with
designing a nuclear-propelled aircraft and those kinds of things,
so what made it seem feasible to design some kind of nuclear-
powered spacecraft at this point in time?
Pigford: Because it had a different objective. The objective of the
nuclear-propelled airplane was to make it possible for a full-
scale bomber airplane to cruise in air for long distances without
refueling. It s nemesis was the development of the chemically-
fuelled rocket which could deliver a payload to Russia and didn t
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have to cruise with people, because the nuclear airplane was to
be a bomber and it was there to be able to bomb somebody. The
Intercontinental Ballistic Missile [ICBM] could deliver a bomb
any place on Earth and it worked.
Now the SP-100 s mission was to supply an amount of power
that could not be satisfied any other way. It s really a small
amount, but that amount was larger than any that could be
feasibly developed for a given device by other means other means
being solar cells, photovoltaics, or radioactive decay where you
put some plutonium into a device and its heat from decaying
generates electricity, not a reactor. Oh, you could build larger
photocells, but finally the size of the array becomes so great,
and the maintenance and even deploying it just becomes out of
sight.
So we had a mission, and one can always question whether it
was valid, but assuming that you need that amount of electrical
energy on a device in space, I would still say that a nuclear
reactor is about the only way I know of doing it.
Wilmsen: But you still have to overcome the problem of aborting rockets
taking off with a nuclear payload.
Pigford: Yes, but the new reactor is not radioactive until it s run. So
you get it into space in a stable orbit, then you turn it on.
Wilmsen: Then you turn it on. I see.
Pigford: So the rocket-abort, I think, could be satisfied, that is,
environmentally. Then, the real issue is once it becomes highly
radioactive by having run, at the end of its life and every
device has an end of lifeeither you shoot it into the sun,
which could be done by sending up a chemical rocket to do that,
or else let it reenter the atmosphere. And the techniques for
preventing space vehicles from burning up when they reenter are
valid, and they would have done that for this device.
The project moved along. In fact, they were about to
construct a land-based test of it up in Hanford, Washington, but
this was in the era when Congress was taking very tough stands on
projects, and NASA didn t have a good defense as to when it
needed this plant. So Congress cut it out. And it was a very
expensive project.
It was fun to work on, but on the other hand, a true
scientist and engineer doesn t like to work on those things
unless he believes in them. And I must say at the start of the
project I know the GE team believed in it, and it was exciting.
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My only trepidation was that NASA had not identified a clear
mission. It was something on their long-term future books, and
those are the kind of things that tend to fail when you get the
red-ink process in the government. Maybe rightly so, I don t
know.
Investigating the Chernobyl Reactor Accident. 1986; Implications
for the N Reactor at Hanford, Washington, and Reactors in the
Former Soviet Union
Wilmsen: Okay. Tell me about serving on the expert consulting group to
evaluate the Chernobyl accident in 1986.
Pigford: The secretary of the Department of Energy saw the very
implications, that even Congress was immediately asking: do we
have any reactors like Chernobyl? If we do, we should get into
that and investigate very clearly whether they are susceptible to
that kind of accident.
The quick response from the nuclear power industry was, "No,
we don t, because ours are water-cooled reactors. They differ in
important details from that Chernobyl reactor." And they were
right. They could sustain that argument, but the trouble is, we
had a reactor at Hanford, Washington, that was built in the 1960s
when Glenn Seaborg was chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission.
It was in the days of the cold war when our military wanted more
plutonium production.
Pigford: The N Reactor at Hanford is the one that was similar in many ways
to this Chernobyl reactor. Both of them had graphite to moderate
the energies of neutrons, to make them critical. Then both of
them used a lot of cooling of uranium fuel rods to generate
power.
Now how did this N Reactor come about? In that era--still
the cold war--the military in the United States said it needed
much more production of plutonium to make more bombs. And that
was at a time when producing power from nuclear power reactors
was considered to be one of the best new things around, and so
the Department of Energy [DOE] --it was AEC at that timedecided
that it would combine the two and make a plutonium-producing
power reactor at Hanford. It would build and own the reactor,
and it would officially sell the steam to a utility company,
which would put a turbine and condenser right near the reactor to
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generate electricity which it would distribute to its customers.
And it ran successfully. And it was running even in the era of
Chernobyl, which was around 1986, I think.
So our committee, or council, or whatever it was called, was
asked by the secretary of energy to report directly to him. He
had already set up large technical task groups at DOE
laboratoriesOak Ridge, and Oregon, Idahoto do their own
evaluation of what really happened at Chernobyl. We were to look
at those results, and we had to learn ourselves what happened at
Chernobyl and then report on any other problems of a similar
nature with the N Reactor.
I ll tell you the end result of our report. Again, it was
not a report by the committee itself, but a report by individuals
of the committee. The secretary claimed he could get the true
essence of what each person felt that way. I think also it s a
way of diluting the results in whatever way you want, because you
can quote the ones you like and play down the ones you don t
like.
And the final result: one member of the committee
recommended shutting down the N Reactor immediately, but frankly
for reasons other than the Chernobyl accident. I recommended
that they change some of their practices. It seemed unlikely
that the N Reactor could get into the same operational mode that
caused the Chernobyl accidentwhich in the long run was operator
errorbut I found so many safety problems anyway with the N
Reactor, that I recommended that those be solved before they
start it up again.
Now that is skipping the details of what we did. It was a
fascinating study, especially the part to learn about what
happened at Chernobyl.
We went to Los Alamos, which has the privilege of
controlling or directing the use of some of the spy satellites
because Los Alamos is partly concerned with arms control. We had
a spy satellite, not hovering, but going across Russia several
times a day. And when it crossed over Chernobyl, it would
measure the temperature of the cooling water and temperature of
the structure in various places of the damaged reactor, so we
could even look at its temperature profile. We could see even
people standing out on the road nearby. In those days we weren t
allowed to say what the sensitivity is of the spy satellites, but
it is quite remarkable.
I m not sure we learned anything that helped us, but at
least it helped us get a feeling for the Chernobyl accident. We
163
learned more about what really happened by talking to the
physicists and engineers at the various government laboratories
who were deeply involved in studying that and had learned a lot.
So we knew, we thought, what caused the Chernobyl accident to
happen.
It was a design itself that was flawed. It s a property of
graphite-moderated reactors that are cooled with water to make
power that if you get an overheating problem, some fuel gets too
hot. And it boils the water coolant. That water (just regular
water) has been mainly a neutron absorber, a poison--and so, if
you boil some of it away, you tend to go supercritical, and that
makes the power of the reactor shoot up rapidly. Well, it caused
a steam explosion which was of enormous magnitude. It lifted the
top cover of the reactor container, which was about forty feet in
diameter and five or six feet thick, and blew it off the
building.
Wilmsen: Wow.
Pigford: Air got in and burned the fuel, burned the graphite, so it was
not really a nuclear explosion, although it was initiated by
nuclear overheating. But the results of all of that were
catastrophic.
Well, in principle, that could happen to the N Reactor. Why
did the Chernobyl reactor do that? It does that when you re
operating under very low-power conditions. When you re
generating a lot of power where there s coolant circulating, it
can take away the extra heat that is being generated pretty
easily. It was early in the morning at Chernobyl, after
midnight, and two operators were out on the turbine building to
calibrate some equipment. They asked the reactor control
building to put the reactor in that low-power mode because they
needed to do a careful calculation, and the operators of the
reactor should have known better. They should try to stay away
from that particular mode. But they didn t, and so the people
out on the turbine building ran their experiment, which triggered
off the reactivity transient, making more neutrons, more fission,
and the reactor took off.
Well, the errors were in the training of the people out on
the turbine building who were doing the experiment, and on the
part of the people running the reactor. Both of them made
terrible errors. We concluded it was possible for that to happen
with the N Reactor, but they had a much better training program,
and the N Reactor was not quite as sensitive to that particular
mode of operation. You could still get into trouble.
164
So on the whole, we found the training seemed adequate and
we concluded that their experience over the twenty some odd years
of running showed that they knew how to avoid that region of
criticality very well. But we went further. I think walking
through the plant, evaluating it, learning its design, you have
an opportunity to see other things, and I wrote a very long
report designating certain places where the operation and the
design needed to be improved on other safety reasons, not the
Chernobyl one .
The secretary of energy s first response was the N Reactor s
needed; he s gotten support from the consultants to keep it
running, except for one consultant named Lou Roddis.
But a few months later, three or four months later, DOE
decided to shut it down anyway, shut it down forever.
Wilmsen: Why was that?
Pigford: They were approaching a major overhaul. They had to replace a
lot of the graphite which over the years tends to change physical
dimensions by the interaction of neutrons with it. Neutrons
displace carbon atoms from the lattice of graphite, causes it to
grow in one direction. That s caused Wigner disease. Eugene
Wigner, a Nobel prize winner, identified that mechanism. In
fact, he identified that when they were designing the first
graphite reactors they had during the war. So after a couple of
decades of operation, you have to take the graphite blocks out
and put in new ones. And it can be done. It costs a lot of
money.
Then there are coolant tubes which are made out of a
Zircaloy metal that would also have to be replaced, and that s
also expected after twenty years. Those two replacements are so
expensive that they decided to forego any further operation, and
they didn t have to do any of the other changes that I
recommended.
Wilmsen: Now, did the Chernobyl accident have implications for safety at
any other reactors in the United States, or just the N Reactor?
Pigford: Well, only broadly. It s again an illustration that human
operators can overcome safety systems and get the reactor in
trouble. We illustrated that first for Three Mile Island. Three
Mile Island occurred earlier and engendered a great focus on
better training, which has continued. And the Chernobyl accident
further strengthened that.
165
It caused enormous increase in the protest against nuclear
safety in this country by the protestors, and with good reason,
because Russia had been claiming their reactors were safe. Well,
they weren t.
Already Russia was a party to the WANO [World Association of
Nuclear Operators] which was a worldwide enlargement from INPO
that was so successful in this country. And INPO had been formed
after Three Mile Island with a great emphasis on careful
management. Russia claimed it was deeply involved in careful
management, and yet Chernobyl happened. So it shows rightly that
careful management has to be given more attention than people
sometimes give it.
Well, there are further implications. Chernobyl was not in
Russia, it was in the Ukraine. There were four such reactors at
one station in the Ukraine. One is still running. There was one
in Lithuania, and I forget the other non-Russian Soviet
countries. There were several in Russia. Well, now, those that
were in the satellite countries, like the Ukraine, and Lithuania,
the Soviets assured these countries that those reactors were
under the overall management centralized in Russia under famous
institutes like the Kurchatov Institute [Institute of Atomic
Energy] in Moscow, which is very professional in reactor design.
I think there were a total of maybe forty institutes in Moscow
that in one way or another had some responsibility on Chernobyl,
in designing it or operating it, something like that.
Well, now that the Soviet Union is no more, Russia does not
supply these services to these other countries, and here,
Lithuania, which doesn t have a nuclear safety commission of its
own or didn t at that time, has to take full responsibility for
the operation. I know that they wish they didn t have it, but
they have it, and it s turning out a lot of electricity. The
nearby countrieseven Sweden across the Baltic from them and
Latvia and so forthare very worried because Chernobyl showed
that the environmental effects can cover enormous distances.
I did, many years later, visit the Ukraine in connection
with an arms control visit, but I was pleased to find that they
had set up their own nuclear regulatory commission which looks
like it s doing a pretty good job.
But all of the reactors like Chernobyl, wherever they are,
were supposed to have big technological fixes, better
instrumentation, and so forth, as well as better training. It
took lots of money and the World Bank got involved. Now Ukraine
is under lots of pressure to shut down its other Chernobyl
reactors and it says it doesn t have the money to do so. It
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
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intends to continue running them, even though people throughout
Europe really want them shut down, until somebody provides the
money to decommission them. And that s very expensive.
And the Chernobyl reactor that had the accident is sitting
there. They hastily enclosed it in a sarcophagus of concrete.
But it was done so hastily, and the foundation is rather weak, so
that s cracking and sinking. And all of that radioactivity- -most
of it--is still in the reactor. So this is a long-term legacy.
They ll have to go back and redo the casing?
Yes.
Member of the Delegation to the Soviet Union for Cooperation on
Nuclear Reactor Safety. 1988
Wilmsen: Tell me about establishing a program of reactor safety in
cooperation with the Soviet Union, which came a couple of years
after Chernobyl, I guess. You were a member of the delegation
from the U.S. National Academies of Science and Engineering.
Pigford: Officially the Soviets and they were still the Soviet Union at
that timewanted to do more and more to develop a better program
of reactor safety. This was partly because of all of the RBMK--
the Chernobyl-type reactors that were in the Soviet Union, and
partly because people were saying, "If that s the way they
operate reactors, their light -water reactors" which is the type
we and Western Europe have "should also be examined because you
can expect problems with those too." That was a very legitimate
argument. It was also partly, talking about the Soviet
motivation, to try to erase the enormous damage to their
reputation in terms of nuclear energy.
So their National Academy of Science, which is a very
prestigious organization in Russia, invited our academies of
science and engineering to send a delegation there to meet with
them and for a delegation also to meet with the various
institutes mainly in Moscow to exchange technical views on
reactor design and reactor safety.
I was one of those who went along; I think there were five
or six people. It was a wonderful trip because being guests of
the Russian Academy of Science is the very best of all possible
ways to enter Russia. We didn t have to go through the long
passport control lines at the airport. They picked out our
167
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
luggage immediately, they put us up in a fine hotel, and gave us
a car with a driver. At the airport, the representative of their
academy gave each of us a large paper grocery bag full of rubles.
He pointed out that the ruble was not allowed to be on
international exchange. That s the Russian Soviet policy and he
knew that we wanted to buy things, eat in restaurants, and so
forth. They said you cannot use American money, it s against the
law. We didn t know how much rubles were in each bag; he said,
"Spend whatever you like. You can buy souvenirs, but when it s
time to leave, just give us the rest back because you re not
allowed to take it out of the country;" so we were having fun.
It was obviously a lot of money. We didn t even know how to
count the amount in terms of real value. We found that we could
eat at the best restaurants, and we had the best seats in the
opera and the ballet and the circus and so forth. We still
weren t spending very much money, and I felt we weren t really
taking advantage of the opportunity. So I asked the driver, who
was our guide and chauffeur--! d already bought presents for my
children and grandchildren and I didn t have room to take home
any more--I asked him what could I buy that is small and
expensive.
There is a famous gem in Russia which may be Alexandrite,
which for some reason they ve never allowed to be exported, but
he told us not even the Academy of Science could get permission
for you to take that gem home, so it became a challenge: what s
expensive and small. Finally we hit upon caviar.
Now Gorbachev had just become the premier, and he was trying
to discourage the Russians from drinking alcohol, which was a
failure, and discouraging them from spending so much money,
because they were strapped for money, on things like vodka and
caviar. So there was not much caviar available. Finally we
found at a very exclusive restaurant, the chef had a partly open
tin that he was guarding and that was very expensive. I think it
would have cost several thousand dollars. And my guide almost
convinced him to sell it to us, but then he learned that the
guide had been employed by the prestigious National Academy,
which he didn t trust, and so I came home without the caviar and
had to give all of my rubles back.
Oh. [laughs]
In fact, I almost became even richer because in 1958 when
Benedict and I published the first copy of our book, a textbook
on nuclear chemical engineering, it was translated into Russian
without our permission. The Soviet Union did not obey the
international copyright laws, so they copied whatever they liked.
168
From a Russian graduate student at MIT, Benedict saw the copy,
and we each wanted to get one for our own personal collection. I
tried. I applied to the Soviet consulate in San Francisco, and
they told me that it was not available. We learned about this
shortly before I went to the Soviet Union, so that was about
twenty years after the translation. By that time it was not
being sold in the bookstores, but the consulate told me, he said,
"There s money for you there, probably, because the practice has
been when they translate a book, they ll set up a royalty fee
account for the authors, and it s in their name at a bank in
Moscow. They can go there and get their money and spend it."
So when I went there in 1988, I asked my friend at the
Russian academy if he could tell me how to get hold of my bank
account, and he had an assistant look into it and he said, "Those
bank accounts were just abolished two years ago." And he said,
"If
you d gotten it, you would have been required to spend it
completely in Russia." And I told him I d already had more money
in that bag or rubles than I could spend. [laughter] That was
the end of that project. And really I would have paid a lot of
money for a copy of that book. It was on flimsy tissue paper and
just a rare thing. I never got one.
**
Pigford: Back to the mission: I have not yet talked much about what we did
substantively .
Mainly we were entertained beautifully,
elegantly, expensively, but we did meet with the various Moscow
institutes--Kurchatov is the main one.
I found in those institutes reactor designers and physicists
who wanted to take this opportunity to design entirely new types
of reactors. They were not much concerned with the Chernobyl
reactor, or even the newer light-water reactors. They were
excited about some reactors of the type that we had put on the
shelf years ago that I talked about earlier because they just had
problems. I was amazed at their lack of understanding and
knowledge about the whole history of reactor development in other
countries .
They wanted to set up cooperative programs. Mainly they
wanted to find a way of getting American PCs, which were not
allowed to be sold in Russia at that time, and they would give us
whatever they thought we would like.
They had some interesting new instruments that we thought
could be imported into the United States, but that never got off
the ground. The State Department was not involved, nor was the
169
Department of Commerce. We passed along the information, but
nothing happened.
Wilmsen: What kind of instruments?
Pigford: Instruments to measure noise, the vibration. Each reactor has a
noise meter because if you find a vibrating part, it means
something s torn and vibrating, or it might even be a loose piece
like the thing that shut down and melted the Fermi- 1 reactor.
There s a lot of technology that s been developed for noise
analysis, and even by measuring the spectra of the noise, one can
frequently tell what s happening. And the Russians are very good
at that. That was the one I remember mainly.
So I was not impressed with the Russian institutes and
reactor design. They didn t want to talk much about Chernobyl;
they wanted to talk about reactors that they should not be
interested in really, if they knew the facts about them.
Wilmsen: Did you convince them that they shouldn t be interested?
Pigford: No. Their attitude reflected to me what I ve heard so much about
the Soviet system. The Soviets don t use economic analysis to
determine what to build. These guys were lost when they got into
the question of what it costs. Instead, they make a policy
decision and go build it. Well, that s led them to some bad
decisions, like fuel reprocessing, like fast reactors; they have
built many fast breeder reactors which they don t need. So it
was an eye-opener to me, and I developed a different view of the
Soviets and of the Russians. They obviously are extremely
skillful in science and mathematics, but as for the kind of
engineering to the same criteria that we would do in this
country, or any western country, they don t do it.
Wilmsen: Has that changed since the collapse of the Soviet Union, do you
know?
Pigford: Well, I haven t had much interaction, but many of my colleagues
have because we re plowing a lot of money into Russia to keep
their bomb designers happy so they won t sell plutonium to the
other countries. So there s a lot of interaction there. It
appears that it s still very difficult for science and
engineering in Russia to be involved in a free market economy
where you have these different criteria. They ve got a lot to
learn. We ve had to send our own engineering firms over there,
like Bechtel and so forth, to do some of the jobs that we had
hoped they would do.
170
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Did they actually establish any of the kind of learning
cooperatives, or cooperatives for exchange of information,
about--
>
Oh, yes. A lot of that has been established. The Lugar plans
that came out of the Senate, are putting about a billion dollars
a year into Russia. That s just one of them.
But I meant the ones you mentioned on nuclear power. I thought
you said there was some discussion of that when you were there.
In Russia?
Yes.
Are we financing some of that? Well, one American company- -a
company I used to work for, General Atomicwhich has been
unsuccessful in selling its power reactor concept to this country
after blunders on building two prototype plants, has teamed up
with Russia to promote that reactor, and the Russians are
applying for Lugar Senate money to finance that. General Atomic
has finally found a way of getting U.S. Government money: through
the Russians. [laughter]
That s ironic.
That s a foolish project.
When you went, then, that was just a one-time trip,
any further involvement after that trip?
Did you have
Wilmsen:
Well, through the years I ve had Russian visitors come to
Berkeley sometimes to see me. We ve had one or two various
postdoctoral visiting faculty. But that s not much involvement
in terms of what is being done in Russia.
Yes, but in terms of actually setting up a program of cooperation
on nuclear safety-
Member of a Delegation on Arms Control to the Ukraine. 1994
Pigford: No, I have not been involved. I was on a delegation in 1994 to
the Ukraine concerned with arms control. One of our purposes was
to get them to realize some of the dangers that we thought they
might not be aware of and to encourage them to work through the
171
State Department and set up a bilateral treaty to help avoid
those dangers.
Wilmsen: What were the dangers?
Pigford: It boils down to the misuse of the plutonium that comes out of
dismantled weapons. I think that all the people I ve talked with
in Russia or former Soviet countries have the idea that plutonium
is so valuable as a fuel for nuclear power reactors and it can
be used as a fuelthat it should be used for that. Well, before
our trip there, I served on a committee of the National Academy
of Sciences to consider what to do with the surplus weapons
plutonium, and we concluded that it s so expensive to use it as a
fuel in a power reactor, just the cost of the fabrication, that
somebody would have to pay you to use it. Yet we re proceeding
as if a lot of our surplus military plutonium is going to be used
as a fuel. Secondly, if you do, it doesn t consume very much of
the plutonium; you still have most of that plutonium left in the
spent fuel. And the former Soviet countries, particularly
Ukraine and Russia, don t see that economic argument because I
don t think they understand it.
There s associated danger, because the more you transport
this plutonium aroundyou have to send it to one place to be
chemically refined, another place to be fabricated, another place
to be transported, and you re talking about using fifty tons of
it from each country, and that s enough to build 20,000 bombs--
it s sort of inconceivable that you could have a good enough
system with good enough security that none of it could be
diverted away surreptitiously.
I don t think we impressed them very much, but Congress is
putting enough money into Russia for this purpose for them to
actually do something more than just storing the plutonium. All
they re willing to do is use it as fuel for reactors. But at
least, hopefully, it s making the system alert to the dangers and
doing a good job on protection. I m very uncomfortable about it.
Wilmsen: So the Soviets don t have a program for developing a waste
repository, or do they? I guess they re not Soviets anymore. I
should say Russia.
Pigford: Yes. Mainly it would be Russia. They say it s one of their
long-range programs. They don t send people even to the
international meetings that I go to on this, and the people I
know in this country who are specializing in that area don t know
what the Russians are doing. I think we believe they re not
doing much of anything.
172
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
They have such an environmentally contaminated environment
throughout the whole country, that really first having that and
not doing much with it to clean it up engenders a culture that
says, "That s way down the road to worry about."
This year there has been a proposal that originated in Japan
and from a person in this country for Russia to create a interim
storage facility for spent fuel--a place for Japan and Taiwan and
South Korea to send theirs. And although it s against the
Russian law to take in spent fuel from other countries, there are
some people in the Duma who are enthusiastic about it. Frankly,
I don t think there s enough will in it to make it work. I think
the Russians are interested because the owners of the spent fuel
--the utilities in these various countrieswould be happy to pay
Russia to store their fuel, just as our utilities would be, too,
if we had a place to store it. And anytime more money is
offered, the Russians are very interested. And in the possible
prospectus which has been floated, they do say that money would
also be used to help get them started on developing a geologic
repository. But that s kind of a footnote more than anything
else.
Well, shall we stop there for today?
Okay.
Because my next topic is actually to start moving into your work
on geologic repositories, and that will take a long time, and be
probably a good thing to start with in the next interview.
Pigford: Yes.
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VI GEOLOGIC REPOSITIORIES FOR NUCLEAR WASTE: PREDICTING
PERFORMANCE AND DEVELOPING SAFETY STANDARDS
[Interview 6: December 9, 1999] ##
Developing a Research Program on the Transport of Nuclear Waste
Through Geologic Media
Wilmsen: Today is December 9, 1999, and this is the sixth interview with
Thomas Pigford. As I was just saying, I d like to jump right in
with your research on nuclear waste management and geologic
repositories. I guess maybe we could start out with you just
describing how you got interested in waste management,
particularly geologic repositories, because you ve talked a
little bit about in the seventies when you changed your research
focus more towards the waste management end of things.
Pigford: Yes. Well, I think my deepening interest started in the mid-
1970s. In 1976 I served on a committee for the American Physical
Society to evaluate the future of the nuclear fuel cycle, which
means the future of all of the operations that go on to supply
fuel for nuclear power reactors and to handle the waste and
discharged fuel that comes up. And it was a very interesting
study. It took about a year.
We got briefed by many people throughout the country and
throughout the world. For one of the briefings which occurred,
our committee was meeting at the Los Alamos Laboratory. There
was a fascinating presentation by Dr. Harry Burkholder who worked
at DOE s Battelle Research Center at Hanford, Washington. He had
been doing some studies on evaluating the possibility of reducing
the amount of radioactive waste by transmuting it into a more
benign form. He approached it as a systems study to evaluate how
much gain there would be in helping geologic disposal if such a
system were carried out, and so he got into the area of trying to
predict the ultimate fate of radioactive materials when they re
buried deep underground; it actually applies on any kind of
burial.
174
Eventually some of them dissolve in ground water and they
slowly, over the years, migrate out and some of it gets into the
environment. That s exactly the kind of process that has to be
analyzed to determine whether auxiliary processes like changing
the nature of the waste before it goes into the ground are worth
while.
Too little had been done in this country and other countries
on developing a systematic quantitative evaluation approach to
use as a guide to how much is achieved, in other words, to
evaluate the ultimate safety of any disposal scheme. And
incidentally, that issue applies to disposing of any kind of
waste, whether radioactive or not, and so he was one of the
forerunners .
Well, it s a process, chemical transport, which is what I
had studied in chemical engineering as a student: How fast does a
solid in ground water move along through cracks or pores in rocks
and what happens to it? How much does it get diluted? And when
does it appear at some distance in the biosphere where human
beings might get at it?
The equations for that had already been developed for a
general kind of chemical transport, but they were limited to each
chemical species being treated separately. And that s fine if
you re dealing with something like arsenic, an agricultural waste
that gets into ground water, because it doesn t decay away
through radioactive decay. You deal strictly with mixing, slow
mixing in the underground system, and retention by the solid
materialthe rock or the soil. It was very easy to translate
those equations and then add a term for radioactive decay, which
is what we deal with in radioactive materials.
But a new term came up because when a radioactive material
decays, what it decays to can also be radioactive, and so you
have to treat the daughters of the radioactive decay, and that
complicated the mathematical analysis. It turned out that some
of the most important species to be considered had at least one
or two radioactive daughters, and to the mathematicians, what was
originally a second-order differential equation became three
second-order differential equations, which is equivalent to a
single sixth-order differential equation, a very challenging
thing to solve.
Dr. Burkholder had made an analytical solution, which I was
impressed at. And I was more fascinated by his results where he
predicted a kind of shock wave would develop and accelerate the
motion of one of the daughters or both daughters through the
175
geologic medium. I couldn t believe the results, and yet it
sounded like his analysis was reasonable and correct.
But his explanation in physical grounds of the sudden large
almost abrupt wave front just didn t seem to make sense, so I
went home and started thinking about it and studying it. And I
did find the equations to be quite formidable. It seemed as if
he had done his work properly, but I and a colleague who was at
that time a visiting professor from Japan, Professor Kunio
Higashi from Kyoto University, worked it out with me--and I ll
give Professor Higashi most of the creditand found a
fundamental mathematical error in Burkholder s mathematical
analysis. We also, more importantly, I think, discovered the
reason for the abruptness of the wave front. By wave I mean
change in concentration in the moving ground water as it moves
along so that there was an abrupt increase in concentration and
it made it go more rapidly than we had ever thought would be
possible from the simple single-species equations.
Well, we learned that, yes, that was a valid result for some
cases, although it did not follow the properties of the kind of a
shock wave you get from an airplane when it crashes through the
sonic barrier. We thought it was worth studying further. Since
we had found some errors in his equations, we decided to
undertake more research and correct the errors and study this
whole process more thoroughly than he had had time to do.
Dr. Burkholder meanwhile had left the Battelle Laboratory in
Hanford and had gone to work for the laboratory Battelle had in
Columbus, Ohio and did not have time to continue the research
himself.
At that time the Battelle Columbus laboratory was the
national coordinator for studies of high-level waste disposal,
and so we generated a proposal for research funding that
officially went through the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory because
this would be a proposal for money from DOE, and DOE likes to
funnel its funds to the university through one of its major
laboratories. So I became officially a senior research scientist
for the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory even though all of my work
was done on campus with students. We had very little interaction
with the laboratory scientifically.
But I and others were invited to come out to Battelle,
Columbus, to give a verbal presentation of our proposal, and one
of the reviewers of our proposal was there, and he was Dr.
Burkholder. I felt a little embarrassed because we were pointing
out he d made an error that flawed the mathematics, but we
thought it was worthwhile to do it right and continue. And I
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expected him to say okay, he will do it, but he said he was too
busy and he decided he would sponsor us. So that s how our
research group got started officially with the sponsoring agency.
Wilmsen: Was this proposal for work on geologic repositories, or just--?
Pigford: Yes, because Dr. Burkholder was now a member of the management
group at Battelle Columbus which managed for DOE the overall work
on geologic disposal. And so that was our entry into the field.
I don t think they had had anybody else at universities doing
research for them. We were probably the first. And the program
blossomed.
We corrected the equations, made many demonstrations of the
results in terms of how it affected the design of geologic
repositories, and those equations are very efficient. It s not
often done in engineering nowadays that people simply use
classical mathematics and come up with equations. They tend to
put the problem on the computer, which breaks the problems up
into little finite steps and makes approximations to solve the
problem step-wise through the entire medium and time- space.
Computers can afford to do that because they can do these
calculations quickly. The trouble is, you lose the generality of
the results, whereas an equation can tell you that something
changes as, say, the square root of time. The computer doesn t
tell you that, it just tells you, at a given time, how much is
there for a given set of parameters. Knowing the general
relationship allows you to understand the results better and also
follow trends and predict trends which is what you need to do in
developing a new design concept.
And so we were very proud of these equations, but the
trouble is that people in the field who were the contractors for
DOE who were actually trying to design repositories didn t do
that kind of mathematics anymore. Much to my chagrin, the
computer has displaced mathematics too much. So they asked us
then to do the calculations for them. We put our equations
themselves in a computer, which is much more efficient than the
normal way a computer works. Our computer equations, which can
solve functional equations, could give us results far more
quickly and more accurately than the normal way a computer
works--the normal finite difference techniques.
We thought they would then be happy to use that computer
code. Well, they were. And for a while we became the custodian
of that code. It meant the user didn t have to remember unusual
functions, like hyperbolic functions and so forth; he simply had
to run the computer code and it would tell him what he wanted,
even though it was the new streamlined computer code that used
177
those functions in its own calculations. So they liked that.
They started using it.
But then we wanted to add more cases to the code, so we
changed some of the boundary conditions of the mathematical
analysis. And as any successful computer code experiences, there
are variations that come out with improvements every year. Not
improving the basic mathematics, but improving the number of
cases it can handle as to whether the dissolution rate of the
radioactive solid is constant with time, or varies exponentially,
or with any kind of prescribed variation. Extended equations
could handle those situations.
So every time we came out with a new modification we had to
send it out to the many users and educate them on how to use it,
and I realized that that was not the thing a university should be
involved in unless your whole interest is serving computers,
which ours was not. The computer was a minor part of our
interest. We wanted to develop new equations and new
generalities, so we got DOE to designate one of its laboratories
--the Pacific Northwest Laboratory where Burkholder used to work
--to be the translator of our new equations that came out every
year or so into a new computer code. And we got off the hook on
that.
And those equations are still there, buried in extremely
complex computer codes that are now used to evaluate waste
disposal, and I m sorry to say, the engineers and scientists who
work on designing waste disposal systems now don t seem to have
much idea of what s inside their code. I found that they only
would read the first report and read the generalities and the
physical interpretation of processes. It would save them an
awful lot of time and money if they understood it better, but
that s not the way complex engineering necessarily works now.
It s too bad.
Well, that got us off to a start, and as we found we could
embrace more and more problems that arose in the designing of
waste management systems, our work got more popular with the
Department of Energy. They had solved the code-maintenance
problem by having the Pacific Northwest Laboratory hire some
mathematicians who could translate our equations into each new
version and work with the people who would use computers. We got
more deeply into the analysis, and our program grew and grew.
Soon it became the largest extramurally funded research project
in the department- -maybe one of the largest in the college of
engineering, I m not sure.
178
And it was exciting. We enlarged the staff, I had to have
somebody come in as a business officer to work with Lawrence
Berkeley Laboratory on accounting, which is a pain in the neck.
We had to make presentations frequently to the DOE contractors
who were designing repositories, and that was interesting, but
still took a lot of time, so I hired a business manager who was
also a scientific person and he did a lot of that.
We had six postdoctoral research fellows who were sent by
Japan. They had heard of the work and they thought it was a good
place to train their own people into this emerging field of
predicting performance of waste management systems. They would
come and work with us for one year or two years, and all of them
were graduate engineers or scientists, and some of them were
university professors. And all very, very competent people.
Then we had many, many graduate students who came to us from
our nuclear engineering department as well as other departments
because this work is general for any kind of waste disposal. It
is more complicated, as I described earlier, when you get into
radioactive waste disposal because of the simultaneous migration
of the radioactive material and its daughters.
Origins of the Recommendation for a Geologic Repository Program
Wilmsen: Now when you say waste management systems, what other kinds of
systems are you talking about other than the geologic
repositories?
Pigford: Well, suppose we worry about disposal of chlorinated
hydrocarbons? That s an example of a frequent problem where
there has been a surface operation like an airplane maintenance
facility where they work on engines and use chlorinated
hydrocarbons as cleaning solutions to clean off their engines.
These are terribly toxic materials and PCBs from transformers--
and if they are not extremely carefully controlled, those
contaminants go into the ground. They infiltrate from rain, from
surface water, penetrate, and then they move through the soil,
which is porous soil, to get into rock and move through that.
They can chemically adsorb on the soil or rock. But that s a
weak chemical reaction and it only retards their movement through
the soil. These we would call near-surface disposal problems.
Wilmsen: So your research then was on waste management of toxic materials
in general, not just--
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Pigford: In general, but it was funded entirely by the Department of
Energy for the purpose of waste disposal and geologic disposal of
radioactive material.
Wilmsen: Now where did that idea for geologic disposal come from to begin
with?
Pigford: Well, back in the 1950s and early sixties, it was certainly
apparent to many in the field that something had to be done
eventually about the rather intense radioactivity from the spent
material that is discharged from a nuclear reactor. That s
mainly the fission products that had been separated even during
the war for the first chemical separations at Hanford. They
recovered the plutonium but left the waste sitting there in
tanks. These are near-surface tanks, and they knew that someday
they had to go in and clean those out and find a more permanent
solution because the amounts in terms of the amounts of
radioactivity were simply enormous. We knew that some of them
had half-lives long enough that they would still be around after
decades, and thousands, and hundreds of thousands of years, so
the ideas of the long-range, long-term disposal began to be
studied in the early sixties.
And they considered many of the alternatives. I think we ve
talked about the alternatives here before, haven t we? Or have
we? The obvious alternatives are like disposal in space.
Wilmsen: Yes, we did talk about that.
Pigford: And then that was a clear problem of abort rate of rockets. Then
another one was disposal in the sea.
Wilmsen: Yes, we did talk abut that, too.
Pigford: Which, I think in terms of being a predictable disposal technique
and being quite safe, is much better than deep geologic disposal,
but it has an obvious problem: who owns the sediments at the
bottom of the ocean? These are the deep parts of the ocean and
that s an international political problem. In fact, since we
last talked, I ve learned that there was a London conference, I
think, of the nations who are confronting disposal of radioactive
waste a few years ago, maybe two years ago, at which they all
agreed that disposal in the deep ocean would not be considered.
I think it was a mistake to agree on that because surely the
political problems are probably extremely difficult, but it s
still a very good technical solution.
And so by sifting through those options, a committee of the
National Academies of Science and Engineering came out with a
180
recommendation that geologic disposal should be pursued most
actively. That recommendation at that time was--
Wilmsen: What s the date on that, approximately?
Pigford: Roughly in 1960--early sixties, 1963, or something like that. And
I think at the same time they said there s an option possibly
available that looks most attractive: to dispose of the
radioactive material in natural bodies of salt left over from the
evaporation of the oceans a few hundred million years ago. And
they gave a lot of impetus to working on that, but it really
wasn t worked on very actively until the 1970s. And I think
that s in response to your question how did the concept of
geologic disposal arrive.
A Theoretical Breakthrough in Predicting the Rate of Appearance
of Radioactive Materials in the Environment. 1988
Pigford: Now, shall I continue on this discourse?
Wilmsen: Sure, on the--
Pigford: This is on some of the evolution of our research program.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: So we developed a very exciting and healthy research program.
The funding level got up to a level of around half a million
dollars a year, which is a very large level for work that s
strictly analytical. It s cheap work. It pays only the salaries
of people. We didn t even use computers very much because our
analytical solutions were so efficient.
The reason it is so heavily analytical is attributed to my
colleague, Professor Chambre, who was a member of the faculty of
nuclear engineering. He still is. He s retired. And he has had
a joint appointment in the department of mathematics as well as
nuclear engineering, and he was always sought after when there
was a new and difficult problem to analyze. Being a classical
mathematician, he wanted to do it by classical mathematics,
although he was willing to use the computer when the computer was
necessary. For example, classical mathematics will frequently
turn out a beautifully general result, but it says that in some
instances you must perform a certain integral, which is in
principle a summation over some wide limits of certain
181
mathematical functions. Sometimes those integrals are so hard to
evaluate that you give up unless you have a computer.
**
Pigford: With a computer you can solve an integral like that, which is
part of the classical solution, and turn out numerical values.
That s where a computer really should be usedon things where
it s unique. And that has helped classical mathematics a lot to
have computers used in that way. Well, that was Professor
Chambre s whole professional interest, professional skill, and
personality. And it was a privilege to work with him on this; I
like mathematics, and he taught me a great deal of mathematics in
the process. And our students really seemed to thrive on it.
Along the way, we developed some new concepts on how to
treat parts of the problem. For example, when we think about the
process of burying solid waste material and eventually it can get
exposed to ground water and dissolve, well, the first starting
point in analyzing the process is how rapidly does it dissolve?
If it doesn t dissolve, then it s no problem. If it dissolved
very rapidly, it s a worse problem. How rapidly? We call that
the source term.
And so throughout the country, people working on solid
materials, especially for high-level waste disposal, had the
concept of--at that timetaking the separated fission products
and dissolving them in glass. Glass looks like a very refractory
material that shouldn t dissolve much in water, but how do they
find out how rapidly it dissolves? Well, they would put some
little samples in a container of water held at constant
temperature, and every few weeks measure the concentration of the
dissolved material in water. Well, that s fine if it dissolves
like in a day or a month or year or a century; that s all quick
too quick for waste disposal. If it takes longer than a century,
it means your experiment is going to take a long time to yield a
result .
As a matter of fact, they were beginning to realizewell,
we pointed out, I think- -that anything that dissolves as fast as
a few centuries is going to be a hard problem to solve in terms
of waste disposal. It will release finally a contaminant
concentration in ground water that will transport out to the
environment that is just intolerable. It became evident that it
must take many thousands of yearsmaybe ten or a hundred
thousand years for it to dissolve for it to be a suitable waste
form.
182
And they said, "Well, maybe it will take that long. Our
experiments have only gone so far." But they were just
extrapolating, with no scientific basis. Without any theory of
how the dissolution process works, all you can do is guess at
pushing- -putting some sort of line through the data points and
see what it s like in the future.
Well, that led to many arguments, all of which were
fruitless, as to how to extrapolate. There were many
conferences. And at that time, we didn t have any theory to
offer, but we then had the idea--oh, yes, the idea came this way:
I was listening to a presentation from another person from the
Battelle Pacific Laboratory at Hanford, a very competent chemist,
and he pointed out that in some of his experiments the
concentration of some species in the solution in the laboratory
would continually increase with time, like boron, or like sodium,
cesium; but on the other hand, the concentration of some of the
species would rise to a maximum and then level off. And that was
true of plutonium which was one of the contaminants you worry
about. So it suggested that plutonium was reaching some
solubility limit.
They were on the right track because plutonium compounds in
the environment form very insoluble compounds: oxides and
hydrated oxides. That s one of the fortunate things about
plutonium, and that s true of some of the other contaminants that
are a problem both in radioactive materials and nonradioactive
materials. So that could set an upper limit on the greater
dissolution: by assuming that all the ground water coming by the
buried waste would reach solubility concentration with respect to
these little-solubility species, the rate of dissolution then
would be the product of the ground-water flow rate and the
solubility.
Well, I agreed with them. That seemed like an upper limit,
but that upper limit was a pretty high dissolution rate. I asked
them how much ground water do we associate with a buried waste
solid. They said, "Well, we ll just take the amount of ground
water that is heading towards it and that would intersect it if
it were transparent."
But it was evident in the discussion that, No, you don t
have to have moving ground water touching the solid, or even that
the dissolving in the ground water ocurring very near the solid
can diffuse out into other ground water farther away. And
anytime it diffuses away, it reduces the amount nearby the solid,
and more will dissolve. So you had to have the possibility of
contaminating more ground water. Then I found in one
international conference a few months later in Berlin a whole
183
session devoted to the question of how much water can dissolve a
soluble radioactive solid, and here this is a flowing system
rather than the confined experiment in the laboratory which uses
just a pot of water.
So it depends on how fast the water is flowing past it, and
the discussion again got into the area of, Well, it s more than
that that is headed towards the waste because of diffusion. They
knew I had worked on diffusion processes a lot and they said,
"How much more water?" And I said, "It
depends on the diffusion
coefficient." And I said, "If the diffusion coefficient is high
enough, it will contaminate all the water for miles around."
But they said that requires a very high diffusion
coefficient. I said, "Of course." So I came back home and
Chambre and I talked about it. And rather than trying to predict
the actual rate of dissolution, we said, "Let us assume,
conservatively, that the thin film of water actually on the
surface of the solid gets to the solubility concentration which
is the limit. How rapidly can that material dissolved material
--diffuse out into the other water?" That depends on the flow
rate of the water as well as the diffusion coefficient, and it
was a complicated problem.
I studied a problem like that once when I was a chemical
engineering graduate student because dissolving chemicals as
solids is a frequently encountered problem in chemical
engineering. In those days, to solve that problem we had to
consider the diversion of water around the solid, which changes,
streamlines, and creates turbulence, which is extremely difficult
to handle mathematically. We could only work on simplified
asymptotic solutions to that problem.
Well, one important difference occurs in waste disposal. If
you have anywhere near a good site, the water flow is quite slow.
Rather than flowing at a few tens of centimeters per second, or
feet per second, as it does in a normal industrial process, it
flows maybe a few inches per year, as the migration rate of water
through a reasonably compacted low-porosity solid, or even
through earth. Through porous earth it might be as much as a few
meters per year, but in the kind of rock we were considering for
geologic disposal it was a few centimeters a year, even as low as
a few millimeters per year. At that low flow rate, turbulence
does not occur. It s creeping flow. Mathematically we call it
potential flow, and the mathematics of nonturbulent flow are so
simple, or the processes are so well defined, that we found we
could solve that problem exactly analytically.
184
What emerged was a new tool of predicting not the actual
dissolution ratethat might be still very, very low because of a
low rate of chemical reaction between the solid and waterbut
conservatively assuming the chemical reaction rate is very large,
it s limited then by the rate of diffusive-convective transport
from the maximum concentration at the surface into the
surrounding medium. But it depends upon the porosity, upon the
water velocity, and the diffusion coefficient.
So we had a well-defined, bounding calculation that was a
useful one because it gave new limits on the rate of dissolution,
and they were much better than was ever expected. So we came out
with a theory that showed that at least if you were worrying
about plutonium, the rate of dissolution of plutonium from the
waste solid would be so low that it would almost disappear as a
worrisome contaminant in the environment. And that still holds
today.
We extended it farther and applied it to the rate of
dissolution of borosilica glass itself, the structure of glass.
That can be limited by the solubility of silica in water. Then
immediately we found that that was going to be very, very low,
and that had a possibility of restricting the rate of dissolution
of even the soluble fission products because they can t dissolve
until the glass is restructured. Well, that tool was a very
important one and is still used today as the fundamental basis
for predicting the source termthe rate of appearance of
radioactive materials. It predicted the bounding value, the
upper limit value. It required experimental measurements of the
solubility, the diffusion coefficient, the porosity of the rock,
and the rate of movement of water through the rock. Now that was
a breakthrough.
Along the way, I had, in this process, served on the Three
Mile Island committee which effectively took me away from most of
the work for a year, and I had professor Chambre and one of the
Japanese colleagues write the project reports during that year.
Otherwise, I wrote most of the papers and reports.
The Waste Isolation System Study, and Brother s Role in
Developing the Theory
Pigford: Then after that came the waste isolation system study, which I
chaired for the National Research Council, sponsored by the
Department of Energy. It was to evaluate the national work on
geologic disposal of radioactive waste from a systems point of
185
view. What they meant by system was looking at every part of it
and seeing what it took to predict the saf ety--because that s the
big problem, predicting the safetyand what design it took to
make the predictions show it was a safe system.
Fortunately for me, my brother, who was, as I ve said
before, five years older than I and a very well known person in
chemical engineering, was on the committee. I was chairman of
it, which delighted me because very seldom was I in a position to
be in a more authoritative position style administratively than
my brother who is older and better known. So as I began to
develop these ideas, which I d heard about through my own
research and hearing about those experiments, I asked him if he
didn t think maybe the rate of diffusive convection from the
surface or mass transfer as we called it would possibly limit the
net rate of dissolution. He was an expert on mass-transport
analysis and had written several books on the subject.
And as older brothers frequently do, he pooh-poohed the idea
because from his experience in such applications that was a
pretty high rate. It would be intolerable. But his experience
had been with normal, chemical engineering systems where there is
turbulence and rapid flow and so forth, so his rejection caused
me to be even more interested in the idea, and that really
spurred me on to work with Professor Chambre.
We came out with this result, and I knew that it was going
to be hard to get him to accept it because it showed that he was
wrong, and he s very seldom wrong, although he s a much more
scientific person--objective--than it sounds from his first
remark. So I assigned him to write up the chapter in our
committee report which was a three-year-long study on how to
predict the suitability of a waste solid. Then I sent him a
free-hand draft of our theory, and of course he was the logical
person to review it because diffusive transport is his field. I
worked in it a little as a graduate student and occasionally in
designing reactors, but he was the international expert. He saw
the draft and he called me up and said it was correct and he
wrote it up in the report. And he gave some very good tips on
how to present it.
At the same time he was a consultant to the du Pont company,
mainly in Wilmington, Delaware the headquarters consulting on
regular chemical engineering operations. The du Pont company was
also operating the Department of Energy f acility they call it
Savannah River, but it s actually in Aiken, South Carolina which
was built during the early stages of the Cold War to make more
plutonium. Also there was a group at that laboratory in Savannah
River which was responsible for developing glass solids for
186
radioactive waste, and so we were adding an entirely new way of
predicting the performance of their solids.
In fact, along the way, our predictions showed that these
experiments they were doing in the laboratory with a closed
container were worthless because they did not simulate at all the
controlling process in a real system where water is moving past a
solid. So they invited us down--I guess they invited my brother
and me to go thereand we made some presentations. And
officially they said they understood and were delighted and would
change their work. The trouble is they didn t have people on
their staff who were very much versed in this kind of chemical
engineering. Even to this day their work has been not very
productive, I think. But the people working on geologic
repositories have taken over this theory. It s a fundamental one
and is widely used.
Outside Reviewer for the Swedish Program. 1986-1991
Pigford: And I introduced it to the Swedish program. About that same time
Sweden had moved more rapidly on establishing a program in
geologic disposal than any other country, including the United
States. It developed a nice conceptual design, and--
Wilmsen: That was for low- and medium-level waste, wasn t it?
Pigford: Well, they had three parts: those two, plus high level. They
haven t yet built a high-level facility, but I m talking so far
about their conceptual design.
They had been extremely careful and perceptive about the
need for outside review of all of their work. And I think it has
resulted in a program that is by all means the most outstanding
in the world, even though officially their schedule is not as
tight as the one in the United States. So they formed an
international committee of selected scientists from different
countries: two from England, I from the United States, and one
from France. Yes, I think that s it. And our committee met in
Sweden to review their work; we did it more from the systems
point of viewoverall protection of performance. I think that
was a program that lasted about six years.
I got to know Sweden very well, especially in the winter
because they would only invite us there for the winter months.
They pointed out that in the summer months, when Sweden is so
nice, they all are on holiday and it wouldn t be worth having us
187
come. [laughter] We managed to change that because as a group
of so-called prestigious consultants (we met as a group), we
could suggest certain studies they doexperiments , analyses--
and give them a schedule, and we were able to get them to agree,
reluctantly, that the schedule called occasionally for meetings
in the summertime. So I got to see Sweden in the summer, but I
know it better in the winter months. And I still love the
country and I still go there and meet with them occasionally. In
fact, I was there in September of 98, and gave a sort of overall
summary paper on the state of the art of prediction. Then in May
of this year I went there, so our contacts are still strong.
Wilmsen: What do you think accounts for the Swedish success?
Pigford: Well, perhaps more care about interfacing with the public. They
are a small country, and the public can have more effect upon a
given project than I think it has in a country like this. Of
course our public is larger, but communications are more
complicated. In Sweden, Stockholm is just like a small town, and
they could have a meeting involving practically all of the
interested technical people in the whole scientific community to
discuss a particular problem, and you can see a consensus
arising. We don t do that in this country. Our scientific
community is enormous, and I m afraid, as a result, we kind of
give up and don t even try to do it. We have gestures in which
we say, "Here is an international symposium exchanging the
ideas," but the people who come to those symposia are by and
large only the workers in the field, and that s not the way of
communicating with the scientific community. If the scientific
community doesn t know or doesn t understand, then eventually the
public is going to be in worse shape because they rely upon their
own icons in the scientific community.
Sweden is able to do this. It did run into a very difficult
problem in getting approval for the siting of some of the latest
nuclear power reactors that were built there. Their nuclear
power reactors furnish a very healthy percentage of their total
electrical power, and they ran into difficulties in getting
permission to start up those reactors. There was an agreement,
which really became an agreement in the Swedish Parliament, that
said they would be given permission to build them, complete them,
and run them, providing they agree to shut them all down in I
think the year 2004. And of course that s not a very long time
for a power reactor to run. And they re running it very
successfully.
Well, from that experience, it was right for them to foresee
that they were going to have a tough problem on any kind of waste
disposal. And so they approached it very carefully. They sought
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outsider reviews, foreign reviews, almost at every opportunity.
Published it at many meetings with concerned people. Those were
very effective, and they continue to do that. That s why I m
confident they will be the first country to really have geologic
disposal. They re also very good technically, but I don t think
their technical skill is that much better than, say, the United
States, or Canada, or France. It may not be as good.
So, the research program blossomed and
II
f
Pigford: I did a lot of traveling, giving talks about our results, and
also working with the repository designers at their working
meetings to try to help the design come along.
I was approaching retirement and I was looking for someone- -
some young personto come in, to take the reins over. Professor
Chambre, incidentally, is much older than I, and he was working
into his late seventies during those mid-1980s.
Let s see, I became seventy in 1992, I guess it was, and I
was hoping to retire. Earlier, I had to cut down lecturing
because my hearing was so bad that I could not have the kind of
exchange- -spontaneous exchange --with students in the didactic
process that I always like to use in teaching. I felt I was
undercutting the students. And then they d given me the
administrative job again of chairing the department and I did
that; tried to rescue some of the faltering programs, and
initiated the decommissioning of the nuclear research reactor.
And I just needed to get out of so much administration. I
intended to continue the researchwhich I still do--and I
finally retired. You don t really retire until your graduate
students have completed their work, and my last graduate student
completed his work last year, I think. I ve been officially
retired for eight years.
So I don t have the same kind of association for the group
creative process that was so valuable in the late seventies and
throughout the 1980s, but I can do work on my own. I review
work, and through that I publish reviews, and contribute a little
to the better understanding of the results that I think are
there, techniques that are there that people don t really
understand or I haven t learned yet. And it is said that the
longer you do this, the more you get into policy, which doesn t
require much new creative work, but requires some initiative to
challenge the socio-technological issues and barriers. I m
deeply into that right now with respect to arms control, which
maybe we ll get into later.
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Wilmsen: Okay.
Pigford: And I m publishing more papers every year by myself than I
published when I was not retired.
Waste Transport, and the Government s Program to Select a High-
level Nuclear Waste Repository
Wilmsen: Now how did you get involved with Yucca Mountain? On your CV
you ve got a couple of things where you did service for the
Nuclear Regulatory Commission. There was a national peer review
panel for geologic criteria, and then you were a member of the
board of radioactive waste management.
Pigford: Yes, those are specific actions: like a committee was set up to
do something. And meanwhile I was having this continued activity
of broad research for the Department of Energy.
Now, how did I get involved in Yucca Mountain? Well, when I
first started this research under the sponsorship of the
Department of Energy, they had, essentially, four different
geologic disposal projects going. One was the WIPP project, the
Waste Isolation Pilot Plant in New Mexico which was officially
for what we call transuranic wastes, which means not fission
products, but scrap material and trash that had been produced
mainly in the process of making weapons, making plutonium, like
contaminated gloves, turnings from lathes and so forth. It
doesn t have the intense radioactivity of fission products, but
it s very long-lived and very dangerous if assimilated into the
human body. And that project is strictly for that kind of waste.
It s a geologic disposal project in natural bedded salt.
The other three projects were alternatives of what kind of
geologic disposal medium to use. One was on using the basaltic
layers that are deep underground underneath the Hanford
Reservation. They are there from very ancient volcanic eruptions
which laid down layers of basalt, and then the volcanoes erupted
again, and another layer, and so forth. They could access those
for waste disposal by digging a very deep vertical shaft from the
surface. The one in Hanford for basalt was for commercial high-
level waste.
An alternative was a project to develop a repository for
commercial high-level waste, again using natural salt, but not
the WIPP facility, and that salt could have been in some places
like New Mexico, Texas, or even salt domes like in Louisiana or
190
Mississippi. In that case, they knew a lot about the location
and extent of the salt and had learned a lot about that from the
WIPP project. The only trouble was, there was no federal land
that had salt beneath it, so it would have to be newly acquired
real estate.
Now the third project was to use the volcanic ash, which had
consolidated to make a rock called tuff, tuffaceous rock. One of
the features of this is it is from an ancient volcano that didn t
make lava, but it spewed out fly ash into the atmosphere, and the
ash settled and consolidated to leave a very firm but very porous
rock called tuff. And I think obviously a main feature is it
occurs in land already owned by the government. In fact, it s in
Nevada very near what is called the National Testing Station,
which is where they have done underground testing of atomic
bombs .
Wilmsen: So this tuff layer is underground?
Pigford: Yes. And actually they decided that it would be easier to dig
into the side instead of going in from the top and drilling down
to access the tuff: to go into the side of a small mountain so
you could have a horizontal entry with railroad cars and trucks
carrying the waste in. And so that little mountain is Yucca
Mountain- - it s not a very steep mountain-- just looks like a big
bump on the horizon. And the waste would be emplaced in a tuff
layer about 400 feet deep below the surface. Then another
roughly 400 feet below that is an underground aquifer,
unfortunately. Another feature of the site is that there s very
little rainfall-- just a few inches a yearand because of that,
the rate at which water infiltrates through this rock, they
thought was only about a millimeter per year, now they think it s
more like fifteen or so millimeters per year. Still very low,
but the rock is very porous, there are fractures in it, and so it
does allow water to move on down.
It also has a problem that it s not saturated with water, so
there s a lot of air in the pores. In fact, air probably
breathes in the lower part of the mountain and, due to natural
circulation from buoyancy, moves up through the mountain and
escapes from the top, so it flows countercurrent to the water.
I should point out that the WIPP facility didn t feel that
it needed to use mass-transfer analysis to predict long term
performance. And I think it s right, because there you put the
waste in a hold in the saltit s a cavern-like tunnel and leave
it there. The salt is actually quite plastic as opposed to other
rock, and from the force of the overburden, it slowly collapses,
and in about a hundred years it will surround the waste tightly
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Wilmsen:
Pigford:
like a cocoon, and so it will not allow water to penetrate. So
our type of analysis was not useful.
The system analysis there to predict long-term performance
related entirely to the hypothesis of future human intrusion.
Humans may be prospecting for future minerals or oil, as they do
now in that area. So without knowing better, some future
petroleum company may drill an exploration well down that
intersects some of the waste and brings it to the surface, and
also creates a shaft in which water can come down and dissolve
some waste, dissolve some salt, and by that mechanism
contaminated water could flow back up to the surface and get out
into the moving underground water. Quite a different situation.
Then in 1987, the Department of Energy, or really the
Congress, which was getting very annoyed at the large expenditure
and slow pace of development, ruled that there would be only one
main project for the commercial waste, and they selected the
Nevada tuff site for that purpose.
I think technically they made a mistake. I think it should
have been one of the salt sites. But I think they were swayed by
the looming politics of public opposition and state opposition
for any of those sites, especially if land had to be acquired
from somebody, and they already owned the land at Yucca Mountain.
Before they narrowed it down to one site for the commercial
waste, they were even supposed to be prospecting for a fourth
site for a second repository. The first three sites were to
select the first repository, and they should be prospecting for a
fourth site for a second repository.
They thought, for demographic reasons, it ought to be in the
East someplace, and so they found the best place for that was in
New Hampshire, which has these enormous masses of granitic rock,
and that would have been very much like the Swedish and Canadian
projects which rely on granite. But once the people in New
Hampshire and other states heard that it was being considered,
they developed so much opposition that the Congress cancelled the
search for a fourth site. There was such an outcry that the
people who worked for the Department of Energy were not permitted
to even come into the state. The State of Texas, which was
concerned they may select Texas for the salt site, issued a
warrant for the arrest of the head of the geologic repository
program if he ever came to the state.
That s amazing.
For a while, they were even afraid to fly over it. So that shows
the intensity of concern, and it also indicates that maybe our
192
country had not been sufficiently sensitive and receptive to what
it had to do.
Wilmsen: They didn t encounter that kind of opposition at Nevada, or not
that intense of opposition?
Pigford: No, I think not at that time. There was intensive opposition in
the state of Washington and from the Indian tribes. In Nevada
the state was immediately opposed, but not intensively, and the
Department of Energy argued, "Well, this is where we ve been
exploding atomic bombs for jears. The place is already
contaminated and it hasn t done any harm." And I m afraid the
public didn t perceive that that was an invalid argument.
Wilmsen: Actually that was a question I had for youabout the underground
testing of nuclear weapons. Because you re releasing
radionuclides into geologic media, so you ve got the same kind of
problem with eventually the contaminants working their way into
the surface environments.
Pigford: That s right. So how do they get away with it?
Wilmsen: How do they get away with it? [laughs]
Pigford: Well, technically, yes, some of those contaminants can make it to
the surface, but you see, it s a rather short time to expect them
to show up. The predicted time for a contaminant to go from the
waste package in Yucca Mountain to the nearest environment where
people are, which may be a few miles away, is thousands of years.
And that would be the predicted time for the test site as well.
I don t think the test site has been exposed to the same
concerns. On the other hand, the amount of radioactivity on a
test site is very small compared with that at Yucca Mountain. It
sounds awful that an atomic bomb makes so much radioactivity, but
it s not nearly as much as what is made by nuclear power reactor.
I m speaking of the long-life radioactivity. There s a burst of
radiation from an exploding bomb that is intense, but that goes
away really in an extremely short time. Then it s the fission
products, and you worry about the ones with half lives, at least
for moving through the environment underground, of tens of years
and hundreds of thousands of years. Now the amount of that from
the bomb is not negligible, but it s small compared with that
from the accumulated operation of roughly one hundred nuclear
power plants.
So they have discovered some tritium moving away from the
bomb locations. Tritium moves as rapidly as the water itself.
It does not interact with the solids. But I don t think it will
193
ever loom to be as much of a public opposition problem as Yucca
Mountain for the reasons I ve given.
Wilmsen: Because the half life of tritium is, what, eleven years?
Pigford: Thirteen years. So tritium moving doesn t bother me. If it
moved actually into places where people dig wells, I d worry, but
it hasn t gone that far. And I haven t studied that. I don t
remember the predicted transport times, but undoubtedly it s
hundreds of years.
Wilmsen: Okay, so what happened next? We were talking about how Congress
wanted to consider a site in the east and then they encountered
all this opposition.
Pigford: Well, they dropped the program.
Wilmsen: They dropped that program.
Pigford: Yes. Congress is a political body, and I think probably they did
right. Better we concentrate on developing the first repository.
That s going to take long enough. The scheduled completion date
for Yucca Mountain is to start running in 2010, but I ve said in
many publications that there s no chance they can make that, and
it ll be at least ten years delayed, I think.
Setting Safety Criteria for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission,
1977
Wilmsen: Okay, so what were the specific tasks that these peer review
panels had?
Pigford: Which peer reviews?
Wilmsen: Well, on your CV it says that in 1977 you served on a peer review
panel for geologic criteria for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission
and then from 1978 to 1985 you were a member of the board on
radioactive waste management of the Nuclear Regulatory
Commission.
Pigford: Okay. On the regulatory commission s peer review panel, our job
was directly focussed on the technical issues related to the
responsibilities of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, namely,
what are the criteria for safety and what seemed to be the
looming problems? Okay. This was a panel whose existence was
limited to a fraction of a year--a few months, maybe--and we
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issued a report. We first addressed the criteria and we found
that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission s criteriadid it give
the date of that?
Wilmsen: Of the peer review panel? Yes, 1977.
Pigford: Okay. They had no criteria and they said they were simply using
the generic criteria they use for licensing any facility for
handling radioactive waste. Well, we thought that was okay
because those criteria had been developed during the 1960s and
early seventies and revised and revised and tightened up. And 1
thought they were pretty good. In hindsight we were all wrong.
I think they would still be pretty good, but there s a
fundamental difference.
When we license a facility, or when the Nuclear Regulatory
Commission licenses a facility like a nuclear power reactor, they
must see that it obeys criteria for protection of the public for
example, from normal releases of radioactivity to the air or
water. They all release some, and the criteria are simple.
They ve established what are the allowable concentrations in air
or water, such that a person hypothetically living right there by
the fence post all his life will not get a dose beyond a certain
allowable level, which is extremely small compared with
background radiation. But it s only for the thirty or forty
years of the plant s life. And you can monitor that as the plant
is operating to be sure that what they do is right and correct
it. And so, an important part of the Nuclear Regulatory
Commission s job is to continuously monitor how things are going
at their licensed facilities. Well, those two things the life
and the monitoring are not the same for a geologic repository.
The timespan in which there s a lot of potential danger from
buried radioactive waste this is true for high-level waste as
well as even low- level waste is hundreds of thousands of years.
That means that you have to deal with that issue in setting the
criteria. The other part of the problem is that you set the
criteria such that no person in the future should have a
radiation dose greater than what we normally allow in licensed
facilities, which was the first statement of criteria, which I
thought was wonderful. There s no way of monitoring it. Of
course you can monitor it during the time you re willing to
assume our institutional capacity hangs together, but that s a
pretty uncertain future uncertain certainly in the thousand year
realm. So how to deal with that.
Both the Environmental Protection Agency, which is supposed
to set the fundamental criteria, and the Nuclear Regulatory
Commission, which is supposed to set means of implementing them,
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knew they had a problem. But we didn t realize that at the
meeting of this committee, and so we effectively glossed over
that part of the problem, and I ve been spending so much of my
time in the last six years addressing that problem and trying to
get people away from a strong tendency to write much more
permissive criteria than was originally statedbut without much
success, I m afraid.
The other part of the study was simply to review what had
turned out from the various system studies. And there weren t
very many at that date. Burkholder s was one of the few.
Pigford: A goal of that review was to try to alert the Nuclear Regulatory
Commission as to the kinds of technical issues they must be
prepared to evaluate when a design comes to them for review.
There wasn t much to review then, and so we simply used the few
projections that had been made at that time and pointed out what
is obvious, I think, that they need to be able to predict from a
safety point of view how the system works. We pointed out that
the cost of developing a defensible safety prediction was
probably in orders of magnitude greater than the cost of actually
designing and building the repository. It s more than just
orders of magnitude greater: we tried to alert them that even
though the parameters weren t very clearly defined on safety
predictions yet, they should anticipate a very big problem. That
led them to set up their own research laboratory in San Antonio,
Texas, to do similar predictions themselves, simply for the
purpose of developing the capability to evaluate the predictions
from the Department of Energy.
Technical Difficulties, Delays, and Shrinking Rooms at WIPP.
1978-1985
Pigford: That s what I did on that panel. And then you asked about the
board of radioactive waste management?
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: What date was that?
Wilmsen: That was 1978 to 1985.
Pigford: Okay. That s a standing board of the National Research Council
which is the research arm of the National Academies of Science
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Wilmsen:
Pigford:
and Engineering. It s that board that originally recommended
geologic disposal back in the early sixties, so it viewed its
function as following the general problems of radioactive waste
management and sensing out new issues as they arose. And that
board creates panels and committees that make in-depth studies.
The committee that I chaired in the early eighties on the
waste isolation system study had been set up by that board, which
then defined the problem and encouraged the National Research
Council staff to seek contract funding for the study from the
Department of Energy. When I joined that board, the WIPP project
was going and so it established a separate committee to give
scientific oversightnot programmatic direction, but oversight
to the WIPP project. And I was assigned to that committee also.
It reported I think once or twice a year to the Department of
Energy which paid for the study.
That was fascinating. I got to go down into the tunnels
that were being dug at the WIPP facility. It was exciting to be
3,000 feet down in saltvery dry rock. We d already learned
about its plasticity, and we had been told that once they did a
room or a tunnel, the salt is slowly moving in on you to close
the tunnel. We were happy that its rate of inward movement was
predicted to be so slow.
Well, this turned out to be a problem. They originally
thought and I think I started on that in 1977 they would have
completed that facility and would be loading it with waste by
around 1980 and so they were getting some of the first waste
rooms ready. They would load those and then excavate others as
the time went on. Well, the project ran into many, many
problems .
It did not have local opposition. It was encouraged by the
local farmers because there wasn t much business in the area of
Carlsbad, New Mexico, but they had opposition from the state.
Not strong, but they kept running into new problems that they had
not anticipated technical problems. And they were slow or inept
in dealing with them.
What were some of the technical problems?
Well, first, how to make the safety analysis. The Environmental
Protection Agency had at that time issued its own safety criteria
which are extremely complicated, and it wanted a probabilistic
analysis of doses to future human beings for the next 10,000
years. So the project had to think of what are the possible ways
that radioactivity could get out.
197
I ve illustrated one way, which is human intrusion. There
are other ways like slow dissolution of the exterior boundaries
of the whole salt medium, which are miles and miles away, by
flowing ground water washing all the salt away, for example.
That was supposed to take billions of years. However, that
required probabilistic analysis, which means you consider what
are the fundamental mechanisms and what is the rate of movement
of that boundary. Well, to measure these things you have to have
parameters. You had to develop a probabilistic distribution of
each parameter, like the flow of water around each part of the
boundary.
There were so many variables and parameters that could
affect the overall performance that they put it all in an
enormous computer code and it took them about a year with the
best computer to run a complete probabilistic analysis. That
means that it was really complicated. The analysis was so
complicated that you couldn t tell what was really controlling
the result. Our committee was very unhappy with such an approach
because we wanted analyses that would give us understandable
results quickly. And I think just the whole business of setting
in place a calculational technique took years and years.
Then there were technical features that hadn t been thought
of. The waste comes in there in steel containers. They look
like big donuts, about eight feet in diameter and two or three
feet high, containing waste inside. They are then stacked in one
of these salt rooms. The question is, if some of the extraneous
water comes in, as from an inadvertent mining exploration, how
rapidly does it dissolve radioactive material? Well, first it
reacts with the iron container.
When it reacts with water, the iron container makes
hydrogen. We don t normally worry about that hydrogen from
corrosion, but if it s all confined by a tight cocoon of salt, it
could build up hydrogen pressure. Some analyses showed that
hydrogen pressure might be enough to exceed the static pressure
from the over burden, which would fracture all of the salt above
it. Well, it turned out that was wrong. That was not the
correct result, but it took a long time to deal with that. And
that has set them back a few years.
As the delays increased, the salt was creeping in on those
rooms that had already been excavated. These were big rooms
filled with experiments, for measuring corrosion rates and so
forth. So to preserve the rooms, they had to go back in them and
put in rock bolts to the ceiling, which means you drill a hole in
the ceiling, which is into the salt above the ceiling, and it
penetrates ten or fifteen feet up and expands. Then you tighten
198
up the bolt, and it supports the rock that would otherwise be
fracturing and filling up the room. They had to rock bolt a lot
of rooms to keep the ceiling from falling in because there were
more experiments as a result of those delays and new questions.
And it just mounted, and it s one after another.
All of the questions were on specific details. For example,
the salt is not uniform sodium chloridetable salt. Most of it
is pure, solid crystals, but there are little layers of
anhydrite, which is a form of gypsum, calcium sulfate, only about
a quarter of an inch thick that runs along through the salt. We
could see some of those layers exposed when they dug the room.
There was the worry that the radioactive gases formed, released
from corrosion, could permeate through those layerswhich are
permeable; they re not cohesive like salt is and find their way
someplace out of the salt deposit. And it took lots of
experiments and lots of calculations and analyses to analyze that
problem. It didn t turn out to be a major problem from my
recollection.
I think the delays caused major problems like having to
stabilize rooms that had already been excavated. And they d
already excavated a main horizontal shaft, miles long, from which
would radiate disposal rooms as they go through it, and that had
to be preserved.
Problems with the EPA Standards for Dose Limits
Pigford: Then, along the way, EPA s criteria for safety for geologic
disposal were challenged. The reason they were challenged is not
the best of all reasons. The original EPA criteria would cover
any geologic disposal facility including the tuff project. By
that time Congress had narrowed things down to tuff for the
commercial waste. When water gets to the waste, it will release
a small amount of radioactivity and radioactive carbon which is
present in the metal cladding around the waste. That will form
carbon dioxide, which then gets into the air; and they found that
because tuff is above the water table and has air flowing through
it, flowing upwards, the carbon dioxide gets drawn up to the
surface of the repository. It s a very small using the most
conservative calculations small amount. The calculated doses to
future people using the usual approach you re assuming there s a
person who lives there and breathes that air continuously- -were
far below the acceptable limits.
Wilmsen: Is this carbon 14?
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Pigford: Yes. It has a half life of 5,700 years, so it will stay around
for quite a while, and it gets to the surface rather quickly. The
air flow is fairly rapid. It may get there in a year or so--a
few yearsbut that s quick for a repository scale.
But the EPA standard, which I said I thought was faulted in
the first place, didn t use that kind of criteria for safety for
geologic disposal. Instead, EPA originated a standard based upon
limiting the accumulated dose to large groups of peopleto large
populationswhereas the criteria I d been talking about, and we
used in our analyses, were the kind normally used to protect the
maximally exposed individual, with the reasoning that if you
protect him, everybody else gets less than that and it s okay.
But I must admit, it s always reasonable to say if you find the
whole world getting exposed to the same dose as that maximally
exposed individual, gee, it says you ought to think about doing
something better. And there is a principle that is followed and
is used occasionally.
Well, EPA addressed only that issue, not the maximally
exposed individual. It assumed in its calculations that whatever
radioactive material is released from the repository gets
immediately distributed over all the surface waters of the
northern hemisphere. It ignored the fact that carbon- 14, as
carbon dioxide mixes with the air, and it used worldwide northern
hemisphere calculations of what fraction of surface water is used
by humans for growing crops. It assumed a northern hemisphere
population of around seven and a half billion people which may
be the right one, I can t quarrel with that and it found then
that over 10,000 years, the cumulative population dose would be
above what they set as the allowable dosethis is allowable for
the whole northern hemisphere.
Well, in spite of the fact that the dose to the maximally
exposed individual breathing the air, which is a mechanistic
analysis, is just trivial, their assumptions, without considering
mechanisms of how it gets spread and dissolved in all of the
water, led to rather unreasonable limit on the worldwide dose.
It said the allowable dose shall be small enough that, over
10,000 years, no more than 1,000 incipient cancers should result,
which is an extremely low cancer rate for seven and a half
billion people; it is so far below what is attributable to the
spontaneous natural cancers, it is out of sight.
Well, that EPA proposal for its new standard came to the
board of radioactive waste management in 1980. We analyzed it
and we said it was so far away from the normal approaches to
health protection and it was just based upon imaginary processes,
that it should not be used. Instead we urged the use of regular
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individual dose criteria. But the EPA insisted and that was
embodied in the standard that came out and governed the WIPP
project.
The WIPP project didn t have any problem because they found
that their gaseous radioactivity really didn t go any place. But
Congress learned from DOE that it couldn t meet the EPA standard
on the basis of this carbon 14, so what Congress did is it said
the EPA standard would not apply to Yucca Mountain.
Now that s the wrong approach. It should have said the EPA
standard is not the right standard for health protection, period,
for certain reasons. But they didn t even ask the National
Research Council to evaluate that. And it dictated that there
should be a new standard written for Yucca Mountain, which they
obviously wanted to not impede at all, and they said it should be
on the individual dose limit. Then they asked the National
Research Council to do a study as to what that should be. And
I ll get to that later; I served on that one.
Wilmsen: But that s back to the maximally exposed individual, or is that
different, again?
Pigford: Congress didn t say how to calculate. Then our committee got
into that argument with rather disastrous results, which is
another story, and I ve been spending a lot of time on that.
Officially Yucca Mountain still does not have a standard.
But in our analyses of its performance and also in DOE contract
analyses, we have been assuming that it s calculating doses at
whatever time they occur to the maximally exposed individual. I
guess I should shortcut it to the end on that, and we can come
back: Yucca Mountain is not even close to meeting that standard.
But I should say, meanwhile, EPA had not come out with a new
standard. Nor had NRC, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
But in the summer of this year- -July and then in September- -
both EPA and NRC came out with their new standards, which are
based mainly on individual dose, which is the right way to do it.
But how to calculate the individual dose is the problem. And
it s because of these problems of elapsed time and so forth,
where the difficulties really are.
But what I have presented in several papers is that EPA and
NRC are greatly departing from what they promised the public back
in the 1960s--that future people will be as well protected as
present people are from licensed facilities. Congress has itself
tried to intrude every year for the past four years in its
proposed legislationnot enacted, but proposedand the sense of
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it is to forbid EPA from writing its own standard for Yucca
Mountain. Congress seems afraid of EPA messing up the whole
system.
>
And Congress has tried to write its own standard, which is a
farce. As an example, it says, "Use the individual dose
standard, but don t apply it to the maximally exposed individual.
Calculate for some prescribed area, like all activities within a
thirty or forty mile radius around Yucca Mountain, what the doses
would be to people at various locations. Then calculate the
average dose, averaged over all that population." Well, when I
first saw that proposal, which initially came from the Electric
Power Research Institute in Palo Alto, I saw the danger, because
the average typically is so far below the maximum. So one of my
students and I calculated that for Yucca Mountaincalculated the
plume of contaminated water that would go down in the lower
aquifer. It s not a very wide plume. Then we calculated that
dose and diluted it by the people who never see that plume who
live in the surrounding area, and there s a thousandfold change
in the dose.
I have spent a lot of time writing papers that can be used
to counter the proposed legislation. Their proposed legislation
has never passed Congress (I think maybe largely because of a
threat of veto from the president), and I don t know to what
extent my efforts have influenced that. I think the political
objections from the State of Nevada have been very strong. So
I m getting off the subject, but we are talking about the
problems in Yucca Mountain. In fact, what was the question that
led to this?
Dissenting Opinion on Yucca Mountain Standards, 1995
Wilmsen: Let s see. A long time ago, I had asked about the board on
radioactive waste management.
Pigford: Oh, yes. Well, the board on radioactive waste management in this
instance, at the request of Congress, formed a committee called
the TYMS committeeTechnical Bases for Yucca Mountain Standards
--and our assignment was to analyze the technical aspects of how
to set an individual standard and implement it. I was on that
committee. We served for, I think, three years, and the report
came out in 1995. It was a tough job.
The committee made a clear recommendation, which I
supported, based on the calculations that had been reported. By
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this time many calculations some from my work at Berkeley, but
more importantly those from the DOE project itselfshowed that
future people will receive the greatest doses far beyond 10,000
years; high doses in the 100,000 to 200,000 year era will be much
greater than the doses in 10,000 years.
We knew that the EPA was going to favor the first 10,000
years because they had in their original standard, and they knew
that the project was going to favor cutting off at 10,000 years
because it s not difficult to meet a reasonable standard on that
basis. It s sort of like underground testing, except shifting
the time scale; it s after 10, 000 years that things get worse.
And so our board made an unequivocal recommendation that there
was an adequate scientific basis for predicting these things in
the era of 100,000 years and beyond, and I contributed to that.
But DOE, EPA in its recent proposal, and NRC (the Nuclear
Regulatory Commission), all three, have come out in favor of the
10,000 year cutoff. They re out for public comments, so these
aren t official standards yet, but I think they will be adopted
that way.
I disagreed with the rest of the committee on some of the
points.
Pigford: I disagreed with them on how to identify the representative
individual whose dose should be calculated for determination of
safety. I stuck to the classical definition that we d been using
through the years for licensed facilities, such that you look at
a person near the boundaries of the facility. In this case, he
gets his exposure by drilling a well that goes down into the
aquifer not knowing it s contaminated. It s a farming family
extracting water for potable water and for growing crops. And a
large part of his diet is from food grown that way. And that s
typical of the approach that s taken in current licensing.
The rest of the committee thought that was too conservative,
and so they proposed a demographic survey of the entire vicinity
to see how people lived. Then they had a vague idea of making a
probabilistic analysis, assuming that s the way future people
will live. And it could be, but what do you do with that result?
They tried to make an illustrative example of a probabilistic
analysis, but they weren t very clear. It was so fraught with
mathematical errors that I concluded that nothing could be
calculated with that technique. I later discovered from a paper
given by one of the members, after our report was in- -and he s
the one who wrote the technique that it amounted to a vicinity
average dose in the long run. It boils down to the same
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unjustified leniency as that recommended by the Electric Power
Research Institute and appearing in proposed congressional
legislation.
The EPA supports my approach in its recent proposal. They
support calculations of the dose to the maximally exposed
individual. I m glad they do. But they make the problem trivial
by their 10,000-year cutoff (I m against that), and I think that
will undermine public confidence, as well as confidence by the
scientific community. It will be one of the things that will
keep this project from succeeding. In fact, I ll continue to
write papers opposing it because of that. So you see, I m
getting identified as an activist, [laughter] which I m very
proud of.
Wilmsen: How did other members of the committee react to your dissenting
opinion?
Pigford: Well, some of them were embarrassed. One of them told me he
agreed with me completely. But it never got resolved. The
chairman is more of an administrator than a scientist. He had a
career position in the Department of Energy and he wanted to see
the report get out, so they used increasingly vague wording on
the contentious points, which is the wrong way to report on a
problem. If the contentious points have merit, they should be
highlighted, really. So I simply submitted my own supplementary
statement, which is part of the report, agreeing with some of it
and disagreeing with some of it.
Wilmsen: How did Congress react?
Pigford: Well, you see, even though Congress requested the study be done,
that study was officially funded by the EPA. Congress told EPA
to fund it, and so our report was submitted to EPA. When EPA
came out with its new proposed standard in September of this
year, it, according to its own rules and this proposal is out
for public comment--had to give reasons for adopting and not
adopting various positions. It had to deal with our report, and
it therefore adopted my approach on the maximally exposed
individual, except they said calculate for closest individual now
living in that vicinity. That happens to be at a little
crossroads which is seventeen miles away at a house of
prostitutionand they get water from a wellin fact, there is
some farming done not far from that. But I had recommended that
they follow the practice we have always been following of putting
a hypothetical individual closer, where the public could be in
the future. And EPA ignored that.
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The public does not live closer now because the land is
publicly owned just on the other side of this township [at the
crossroads] and is not available for farming or what have you.
But you can t assume that that restriction will last for a
thousand years. That would be ridiculous. But the main thing
EPA did was to adopt the 10,000-year cutoff, and it did so in
spite of the fact that I have written a lot about that. Through
the years, since that report came out from that standards
committee of the National Research Council, I ve seen how much
the EPA and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and the contractors
want that 10,000-year cutoff. Because they don t succeed at all
if you let it go for 100,000 years, due to the high doses. So
EPA s official argument for the 10,000-year cutoff is dim.
Well, there s a lot of uncertainty on all of these
calculations, which is correct. And you d expect it to be
greater the farther in the future you predict which is how they
defended it back in the 1980s. They said, "And the uncertainty
is so great after 10,000 years, that the results don t mean
anything." Well, the strong united decision of our committee
was that s not true, that the predictions beyond 10,000 years are
remarkably well-based scientifically. EPA still uses that old
argument .
I have then done uncertainty calculations and pointed out
that the uncertainty actually decreases after 10,000 years, which
many people think is counter-intuitive. But it s a rather
interesting result that could be obtained easily from our
analytic theories, and I ve written two publications on that.
What we re interested in is not the uncertainty of any particular
dose at any time but of the maximum dose from the maximum
concentration in ground water. That maximum concentration is so
protected from uncertainties by physical forces and parameters--
and sensitive to them--if you ask for the concentration at the
edge of the contamination band going through the rock, that s a
hard thing to predict because it s being torn apart by dispersive
processes. But these concentration bands are tens of thousands
of years long. It takes that long for the waste to dissolve.
And the maximum concentration occurs far later than the front of
the concentration band and it s not subject to dispersion. And
the results are really dramatic.
I also took some of the calculations DOE has published on
uncertainty. The results are a little more difficult to
interpret, but I pointed out that if you look at them carefully
and reinterpret them, they show the same thing my calculation
does. EPA has not addressed that issue. It simply repeated its
claim from back in the mid-1980s that the uncertainties become
greater with time. I can t claim too much, but always what I
205
have calculated is the calculable uncertainty. We have the best
available predictions of parameter distributions and
probabilistic distributions that affect the calculations. Those
are what I deal with, and I can calculate uncertainty of any
result from that.
But there s always the uncertainty of our models themselves.
And this is a rather bold assertion to say that we know the
models, but at least they are based upon belief in the science.
I believe solubility, which is one of the parameters, is a
fundamental measure of limit of concentration in water, and I
don t know anything that s going to change that with time. But
that s, again, a hypothesis.
So I say within the realm of the science that we know and
are able to calculate, the uncertainty of this particular result
is such that it decreases with time, and that s the result I
presented first in Stockholm in 1998. I presented it again in
Stockholm at a different international conference this year
[1999], and the result has been noted by many people. I think
people who have looked at it scientif ically--and I think with
some belief at first that it s counter-intuitive--do seem to
accept it.
But I think Congress clearly, by its attempts to come up
with an even more lenient legislation than EPA has come up with
by going to this vicinity average dose, is interested in doing
what it can do to help the projecteven though I think it will
kill the project by fatally damaging the credibility of the whole
system of regulation of Yucca Mountain to protect public health
and safety.
my -man/cs fir PL
job Weil fhme
/#HU<*
Tom delivering the Three Mile Island Commission Report, 1979.
Hanson Benedict (mentor, colleague, friend) and his wife Marjorie,
1985.
Shutting down the Berkeley Research Reactor, 1988. Front row, from left: Stan
Prussin, Selig Kaplan, Tom Pigford, Tek Lim, Harry Brown, Dan Winterbauer,
John Austin (lighter plaid shirt). Back row, from left: Tui Lee, Don Peterson
(Environmental Health & Safety), Peter Verning (also EH&S), Jack Harrell.
Tom at commencement, UC Berkeley, 1996
Bay to Breakers, 1985,
Tom in his workshop, 1999.
Betty and Tom Pigford, during construction of Oakland house, 1994.
Stepdaughters Laura and Janvrin Weekes, 1994,
206
VII LOOKING FOWARD, LOOKING BACK: PLANNING FOR FUTURE PUBLIC
SAFETY, AND REFLECTING ON CAREER, FAMILY, AND THE NUCLEAR
INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE
[Interview 7: December 16, 1999] ##
Dealing with Possible Conflicts of Interest in Committee Work
Wilmsen: Okay, I had a couple of follow-up questions from last time. You
mentioned that you had served on a committee of the Department of
Energy s to review the site characterization for the Basalt waste
isolation plant in Hanford, Washington, and you were also on a
committee for Rockwell and Westinghouse on looking at that same
facility.
Pigford: Yes.
Wilmsen: I was wondering if you could just talk about how serving on the
industry committee was different from serving on the Department
of Energy s committee.
Pigford: My recollection is that those two committees combined rather than
having two independent reviews.
Wilmsen: Oh, I see.
Pigford: They were officially two committees, but we all sat as one body
and turned out one report.
Wilmsen: I see. Was there any concern that there might be a conflict of
interest having the industry and the government acting as one
committee?
Pigford: Well, it s always a legitimate question. Actually, Rockwell and
Westinghouse were both contractors for the government there. Oh,
yes, here s the way it happened: the Department of Energy
officially wanted its own committee, but to set up a procedure
for defraying the expenses of the members of the committee- -the
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Department of Energy is a huge bureaucratic organization and so
it asked the operating contractors involved, Westinghouse and
Rockwell, to then put me on officially as a member of a committee
for them. They re smaller, and they undertake such things at the
bidding of the Department of Energy, so they put me on officially
as a consultant. So really even from the beginning it was
intended to be one committee. It officially was, too.
Wilmsen: So acting as one committee, then, the concerns that were of
possible conflict of interest were just not raised?
Pigford: Well, they weren t raised in that context because it was simply
paperwork to provide a means of paying our traveling expenses.
You see the contractor was there to carry out DOE s bidding, so
it was all a DDE-sponsored evaluation.
Wilmsen: I see.
Pigford: Now always conflict of interest would come up--oh, I see.
Officially I could be looked upon as being on the payroll of
Rockwell and I would be sitting there reviewing their work.
Well, actually, this situation occurs in almost every committee
you serve on, whether it s industry or government, because
somebody has to pay your expenses to go up there. Real conflict
of interest issues arise really in a different capacity. Are you
also on the payroll or otherwise obligated from some other
interested party who might have different motivations than the
Department of Energy and its contractors? And we always go
through that ritual of examination of conflict every time we are
nominated to serve on a committee.
But as I say, in this case it s only an accounting issue,
although it might appear to someone from the outside that it
could be a conflict of interest.
Scientific Master to the Court on a Lawsuit Concerning Wartime
Releases of Radioactivity at Hanford. Washington. 1994
Wilmsen: Then you also served as the scientific master of the court
concerning a lawsuit around radioactive releases from Hanford?
Pigford: Yes.
Wilmsen: How did that experience affect your assessment of the nuclear
power industry as a whole?
208
Pigford: Well, my service to the federal district court occurred at a
much, much later time. I think that assessment probably occurred
in 1994-95, probably in that era.
The issues there were safety issues involved really in the
operation of the Hanford facility for the government and its
contractors some fifty years earlier, mainly because at that time
the main issues regarding releases of radioactivity during World
War II were at the Hanford facility. I guess officially there
were still some releases from Hanford on the books in the 1960s
and maybe early seventies. I can t remember too well. But the
part of the problem that was under my purview as scientific
master were the releases during the war years, and some of those
releases were large releases.
At that time, the operating contractor, which was then the
du Pont Company, mainly did not have--nor did anyone have- -enough
information as to what radioactive materials would be released
when you dissolve irradiated uranium fuel. There were copious
quantities of radioactive iodine that came out; it was volatile
and got into the air.
Now, I first got involved in that kind of issue- -namely,
releases of radioactive material to the air--when serving on
reviews and doing research in the late sixties and seventies for
the nuclear power industry. By that time, we, and the whole
technical field, knew enough about that problem. We knew it was
an important problem. I think I ve related in previous
discussions here that the whole technology was evolving on how to
control radioactive releases from nuclear power plants, and we
learned along the way that those releases had to be much smaller
than had been thought allowable even at the beginning of the
nuclear power industry in the 1960s.
So really that experience with the nuclear power industry,
and also in my teaching and research and writing, in the sixties,
seventies, and eighties and it continues to be an issue gave me
some technical background to evaluate the importance of those
problems that occurred at Hanford during World War II. So the
two things were not overlapping in time, but there was that
sequence of getting into the Hanford issue later, much after the
fact.
It was a fascinating issue. The records they kept in those
days were not very good. The class action suits being brought
against the government and operating contractors in the federal
court were arguing that those releases and they were mainly
during the war years, some overlapping into the Cold War years of
the 1950s had damaged people. Clearly the government and
209
operating contractors back in the 1940s, in the war years,
realized that it was much worse than they had expected. They
purchased a lot of land across the Columbia River as a buffer
zone so that the nearest residence and farming families would be
farther removed from the point of release, but even that did not
completely satisfy the problem. So looking at the likely
magnitude of those releases, the court decided that the
plaintiffs--Indian tribes, citizens, whole townships throughout
several countieshad a prima facie case, meaning they presented
enough evidence to show it was worth a trial.
Then my role became assistant to the judge of the federal
district court, Yakima, Washington, who had the thankless job of
presiding over the case. He learned it was highly technical and
he needed a consultant. There were arguments on both sides by
the plaintiffs and defendants as to who this consultant might be.
He asked them to come up with a list of names. And the potential
damages were enormous, so each side dug in and wanted its own
consultant. They spun around for over a year looking for
somebody. Finally I guess they must have gotten to the bottom of
the barrel, and my name turned up. Both sides agreed that I was
okay, sort of like when I got selected to serve on the
presidential commission for the accident at Three Mile Island: I
was suitable to the environmentalists and I was suitable to the
industry.
So then I got to be the scientific master. I m wandering a
little bit in my exposition on this, but I ll tell you at least
what the nature of the job was: how to develop enough evidence to
make decisionsbecause the records were faulty, and there were
no records even of exactly how much release there was. Then, to
know if the citizens the plaintiffs received some harm to their
health, one needed to know what concentrations, what doses in the
air they might have been exposed to. There were no measurements
of that. Those measurements would have had to have been taken at
a large number of locations throughout several counties, and the
doses depended upon the weather conditions. There were no
records of the weather conditions, or very bare records.
So the government, the Department of Energy, decided that it
would undertake to set up a project to be carried out by the
operating contractor which I think was Westinghouse at that
timeto develop a detailed map of what actually did happen. All
of this is now happening during the era of 1994 and 1995. And
the operating contractor had to go through millions of pages of
poorly kept records-- just snatches and notes here and there to
piece together what these exposures might have been.
210
I usually don t like doing consulting jobs for litigation
because if you are asked to be an expert witness on one side, the
managers, the lawyers, from that side want you to say things that
benefit them and not the other side, and to a person accustomed
to scientific inquiry, that s a constraint that s very
unappetizing. In this case the judge had no preference and he
simply asked me to come up with issues and possible areas of
inquiry that would give him enough information that he could then
reach a decision. So they sent me tons of reports to review, and
I wrote up briefs for the judge.
The case to my knowledge is still going on. It had already
been in discovery either five or ten years before I got on the
job.
Wilmsen: Wow.
Pigford: It has all the earmarks of an enormously complicated casevery
difficult to resolve. If it has been resolved, I have not heard.
Wilmsen: Did getting involved in that affect how you felt about nuclear
power or the nuclear war effort during World War II?
Pigford: Well, it was a crunched program in World War II, and clearly they
did some things in a hurry and were surprised by some of the bad
resultsbut not enough intervention. I have said before that
the process that was developed by Glenn Seaborg, his work in
Gilman Hall on the campus to develop a means of extracting
plutonium from irradiated uranium fuel which is what they were
doing at Hanford got the plutonium out but it left copious
quantities of radioactive waste. It was that extraction process
that also released these unexpectedly high releases of
radioactive gases. And in hindsight it would have been better if
they had done a more thorough analysis of the experiments to
outline the dimensions of that problem. They should have done
that, and I wish they had. That s all I can say about that.
It gets into the public domain as to whether it was worth it
in the war effort. I think that s the wrong question.
Was it a reasonable approach? I can t even evaluate that,
because whether that s reasonable depends upon, again, balancing
the benefits of getting that plutonium out to make bombs versus
the risks of an accelerated effort. All I can say as a scientist
and engineer is I wish they had been more careful.
211
Site Characteristics of Yucca Mountain , and Designing for Future
Public Safety
Seismicity and Volcanism
Wilmsen: I also had a couple more questions on Yucca Mountain. In some of
the reading I ve done, they talked about earthquakes in the area.
For example, in 1992 there was a 5.6 magnitude earthquake twelve
miles from the repository site, and then I guess there s also a
fault cutting right through the site.
Pigford: Yes, there is a fault.
Wilmsen: So I was wondering what your thoughts were on the seismicity of
the area.
Pigford: Yes, that fault cutting through the site is called the Ghost
Dance fault. There s no doubt about it, it s an area that one
would expect to be seismically active. In fact, the rock that
they are excavating, in which they will make tunnels and rooms to
deposit the radioactive waste, is the product of a very ancient
set of volcanoes. Those particular volcanic eruptions, instead
of making molten lava, spewed into the air enormous quantities of
volcanic ash--the dust similar to the eruption at Mount Saint
Helens so many years ago. That fell out and over the years
consolidated into a rock similar somewhat to sandstone, but much
more porous. That s called tuffaceous rock, or shortened into
the word tuff.
Now, does that make it a bad site? I think a first reaction
would be reasonably to raise alarm and a red flag on that. It s
gotten a lot of attention, and I think deservedly so. It s
certainly still seismically active, as almost any place in this
part of the United States. How important is that? Well, it s
not nearly the same as worrying about siting a nuclear power
reactor on seismically active sites, like Bodega Bay or Diablo
Canyon, because there you have the possibility of disrupting
engineered systems, such as emergency cooling, that are
absolutely necessary to operate in case the earthquake shuts down
the nuclear power reactor, as it will because there are
earthquake sensors that will do that. But the main thing is to
keep that coolant going in so the fuel doesn t melt. It can
melt, even after the reactor is shut down, because of the intense
radioactive decay heat from fission products in the fuel. That s
where the issue is. And if the fuel melts, then it releases its
own radioactivity to the surrounding room. In some scenarios it
can also cause breaching of the containment vessel, and that
212
radioactivity can get out into the environment. It s an
extremely important issue.
In the case of radioactive waste disposal, geologic
disposal, the radioactive waste that s put thereand I ll take
the worst case: discharged spent fuel from nuclear power reactors
treated as a waste, which is going to be the main waste in Yucca
Mountainstill has enormous radioactivity in it, but it s been
aged for at least ten years before it goes there. The average
age will be twenty to thirty years, so the radioactivity that s
remaining is a very important issue in terms of potential damage
to human health if it gets assimilated into the body. It does
generate some heat, but it s not very much. And one of the
functions of a geologic repository is that the rock in between
adjacent rooms, or adjacent tunnels where the waste is put, is
sufficient to absorb that heat. So it causes only a modest
temperature rise, and there seems not to be much chance of
causing overheating or melting. That s an enormous difference
between that and a nuclear power plant.
There s also a logical worry: can the shaking motion disrupt
the containers? That s been studied a lot. These are not
containers that are part of the overall system, that is, piping
and instruments going to it and so forth. You can shake a
container and have it roll on the floor, if it ever could get
disrupted that much; but these containers are designed to
withstand much greater force than that. Well, it s quite
possible you can develop cracks in some of the wells, but in
fact, because repositories have to be designed to protect the
public for tens and hundreds of thousands of years, in the long
run you don t depend upon that container very much anyway. It s
the basic insolubility, for example, of radioactive materials
like plutonium or neptunium that prevents all except a tiny
fraction of them from dissolving in the ground water. That
insolubility is going to be there, whether that container is
disrupted or not. So I m persuaded that it s not a issue to
forget about and it must always be brought up and reexamined, but
I have come to the conclusion that it does not necessarily negate
the site for waste disposal.
There s another possible issue. Suppose volcanic activity
would produce a hot magna that rises up through the rock. I
don t know if that s ever happened in that vicinity because, as I
said, that vicinity was created by a different kind of volcano.
There have been a lot of studies of the what-ifs on that, and the
geologists and seismologists seem to conclude that the
probability of that is extremely small. Just bringing the magna
up to the level of the waste would not necessarily itself negate
things, because that doesn t necessarily create a pathway to the
213
environment. But if you made a lot more magna and it finally
came to the surface of the earth and poured out, well, then that
would be a worry.
But I have to rest upon what seems to be the consensus from
very competent geologists of the probability of that for that
region. They can evidently assess that by looking at the traces
from earlier earthquakes going back literally billions of years,
and they find that the probability of a magna-type excursion is
extremely low.
Ground Water, Climate Change, and Long-term Warning Systems
Wilmsen: What about upwelling of ground water?
that concern also.
I think people have raised
Pigford: Yes. That, I think, is a more worrisome concern. In my opinion
it s still a valid issue. There s one person who has taken some
of the chemical data and said that it indicates an upwelling of
ground water ages ago and it could happen again. We ve had
several special committees of the National Academies of Science
and Engineering evaluate that particular issue and their
conclusions in that case are that he has misinterpreted the data.
Those are the kinds of questions and studies that are important,
and it s one reason why they need a lot of time to bring them up
and research them.
Wilmsen: Now on that, one thing that just occurred to me--you mentioned
last time a computer model that took a year to work out--I was
just curious if climate change data, like from
dendrochronological records, had been used in that model. You
mentioned that right now the site is a very dry site, not much
rainfall, but over time--I don t know the dendrochronology of
that area, but--
##
Pigford: Climate changes all over the world to be sure. But what I
mentioned about the long time to do the probabilistic
calculations was in the connection with the WIPP site.
Wilmsen: Oh, maybe that was it. Yes.
Pigford: But the calculations are unnecessarily complicated for the Yucca
Mountain site. And there is, of course, good evidence that we go
through cyclical climate changes every 30,000 or 40,000 years.
Some people say maybe the next one within the next 20,000 years--
214
it s hard to predict. And in my view, because I ve said before
that the time period of concern, of possible release of
radioactivity to the environment, is in the hundreds of thousands
of years. A proper safety analysis must include these effects.
And even though the newly forthcoming safety criteria from the
Environmental Protection Agency for Yucca Mountain specify that
emphasis will be given to calculations for the next 10,000 years,
which I strongly disagree with (and I was on the committee of the
National Academies of Science and Engineering which was asked to
make recommendations for the scientific basis for new criteria,
and we recommended strongly that the calculations should extend
really almost up to a million years to look at the era when the
maximum possible concentrations are occurring) , at least that
warning has stuck to the extent that the proposed new regulations
say the calculations will extend as that committee recommended.
But EPA still says that for safety determinations it will use the
calculations for the first 10,000 years. So I m just not sure
that EPA will give them as much weight as I would have them do.
That remains to be seen.
But at least those calculations are being made and are being
extended. And how? Well, for example, the last pluvial age, the
age in which there was a lot of rainfall, did come to the Yucca
Mountain area; it was all over Nevada, all over California. The
glacier, the big glacier which obviously created Yosemite Valley,
didn t come down that far, but great glaciers like that came
pretty close. And the geologists and the hydrologists , even the
paleontologists, are creating scenarios of what those periods
were like--mainly what was the water flow like.
I think that can be done. So it would be wrong to assume
that those areas, those periods, are being neglected. I ve had
the most experience in serving on review teams, scientific
advisory teams, for the government of Sweden, where there they
know a lot about this because clearly they had an enormous
glacier there, and they expect to have it again. They ll have it
every 40,000 years. It s a fascinating study which I ve been
involved in a little with them.
Where will future people be in the next glacial period?
Well, the view in Sweden is that they will probably tunnel
underground because Swedes love to dig tunnels in their wonderful
granite rock; a lot of their industries are underground, a lot of
their stores. That will be a fairly warm place because the
surface of the earth will be protected from the extremely cold,
cold winters that come from exposed land. The bottom of the
thick glacier is receiving some heat from geothermal energy, and
that s what keeps the earth warm, in fact, hot down below. So
the Swedes tell me that might be a pleasant place to live.
215
Well, you ve got to protect those people, and can you
predict it? Well, I was amazed. The glacieologists and
hydrologists in Sweden can re-create what the moisture conditions
were under the glacier. And actually they are much dryer than if
the glacier were not up there, because the glacier, as long as
it s solid water, ice, it doesn t recharge the ground water. And
they re not necessarily bad periods for protecting the
environment; you just want to be sure the people don t try to dig
their homes near the waste. That s what I worry about. They
encourage the kind of activities that result in human intrusion,
and that s a problem which is always going to be there, and it s
legitimate.
Wilmsen: What about working on some kind of long-lasting warning system?
Pigford: Yes. Well, that s what you go to when you want to try to
minimize that problem. This country has probably spent more
money--mainly on the WIPP project where it cut its teeth on this
issue--on how to discourage future people from intruding on the
repository. And as long as we have institutional control, like a
government and records, it seems reasonable, unless there s a
terribly decrepit society, that control would be fairly easy.
But it s fanciful to let it go at that. So what kind of warning
signs can you build now that would discourage future people?
Mainly, what kind of signs will survive? Well, there ve been
studies of building a stonehenge-type structure above ground, but
archeological records tell us that the ones we see were built
maybe 5,000 years ago, and that s not very long. It seems
reasonable that you could build something that would last longer,
but where are they? Well, I don t think that should discourage
us, and I think probably such things will be built. But I must
caution that there are no definite plans.
Making the Repository Watertight, and Reducing the
Solubility of Uranium
Wilmsen: Now, in reading your article "Getting Yucca Mountain Right"
1
where you talked about a couple of alternatives for building a
barrier to keep moisture from getting into the rooms where the
radioactive waste is storedone was filling the spaces between
the containers with some kind of chemically reducing agent and
another was using a two-layered backfill, sand and gravel layers
Carter, Luther J. , and Thomas H. Pigford, "Getting Yucca Mountain
Right," The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists. March/April 1998, pp. 56-61.
216
--it struck me that that would add incredible cost onto the
building of the repository. Is that a fair assumption?
Pigford: Well, I think the people on the building part of the repository
would complain, because a contractor doesn t like to find things
that increases cost, say, by a factor of two or something like
that. And I m just using that number hypothetically, but the
cost of disposing of radioactive wastes has little to do with the
cost of the repository. The main cost is to develop enough
information to convince people of its safety.
There are two kinds of cost: one, developing the data and
presenting the analyses that are persuasive and conclusive, and
secondly, the cost of a delayed and protracted program. That s
always true of a complex engineering system. The engineering
contractor wants to get the job done as soon as possible because
it otherwise continues, and there s interest on investment to be
paid, and so forth and so on.
So the Yucca Mountain project resists such fixes as that. I
think their main risk is that they feel they have a commitment to
a certain schedule: 2010 for first loading. That is the official
date, and they believe that incorporating a significant design
change like that would add several years to the program and
that s just not the way of doing business. But they do not claim
that there s an urgency to put radioactive waste in the ground by
2010.
At least I believe the government and its contractors
believe that monitored surface storage, especially if they built
a national interim storage facility like some other countries
like Sweden, is really very reliableexcept for only the very
long run if your institutional controls are lost. That s the
main reason why we have geologic disposal.
So the resistance to this is the debits from delays in
schedule. There can be many, and the more you delay, the more
reasons the publicand not only the public, but the whole
engineering scientific community- -has to say, "See, it s a much
tougher job than you ever realized." And that s true, but at
least in the view of Luther Carter and me, and, rightly many
other people, the most important thing is a persuasive, reliable
design for safety. And I don t think they have it.
The Yucca Mountain project even in 1995 issued a report
showing the effect of various alternatives, and there was only
one alternative in their report that to me showed it would meet
the safety requirements with a suitable margin of safety. That
was the one of puttingin our paper we called it a capillary
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barrierin a backfill of layers of gravel and finely divided
sand surrounding each waste package. Water coming down from
above would tend to follow by surface tension the fine holes in
the capillaries, and will not go through the larger holes in a
bed of gravel where the surface tension effects are much, much
smaller. So there you can expect that the incoming water will be
diverted around the rooms and not get to the waste containers.
It s not a new idea. The Chinese incorporated that
technique 4,000 years ago to protect their burial sites some of
them, anyway. You ve seen the write-ups and pictures of this
amazing discovery of the large underground rooms where the clay
warriors, thousands of them are marching along, not moving, to
guard the emperor.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: That s been preserved by an overhead mound of capillary barriers.
There are similar capillary barriers in Japan, dating back to the
historic and prehistoric times, especially up in northern Honshu
and Hokkaido.
Wilmsen: Ainu?
Pigford: No, it s before the Ainu, or it may be the Ainu and I m trying to
think of the right word.
Wi 1ms en : Jomon ?
Pigford: Maybe it s Jomon. Are those associated with the Ainu?
Wilmsen: Some people think that possibly they re the ancestors of the
Ainu.
Pigford: Okay. And they are the pit-dwellers.
Wilmsen: Yes.
Pigford: Some of the excavations have shown that they also used this
technique which they might have imported from China. China s
history and archeological evidence goes back much farther.
That s the technique which I think should be incorporated,
and many of my colleagues who are watching the project carefully
and are involved in it one way or another agree.
I should point out that that technique works only when there
is an interface between air and water in the rock, because it s
that interface where the surface tension is created. That
218
surface tension is more powerful, the smaller the radius of the
pore--the greater the curvature of the material where the
interface is. And that s one of the great features of Yucca
Mountain, putting waste above the water table in rock that is
unsaturated with waternot saturated. Air moves upward through
the mountainit comes in from the lower sides of the mountain--
and water moves downward, counter-currently. It s the only
repository project currently in the world that I know of that is
using unsaturated rock, and it s uniquely equipped then to use
the capillary barrier.
There is a proposed project in Australia for geologic
disposal of radioactive wastes. It s not proposed by the country
of Australiathey don t have any high-level radioactive waste-
but proposed by entrepreneurs who want to get the Australian
government s permission for them to build such a repository and
let the government then reap the supposed financial rewards of
burying other people s waste. Because Australia has large areas
of land in the outback and other places where there s not much
rainfall, they could, I m sure, utilize the capillary barrier
approach. Can t do it in a granite repository because you go
down 1,000 feet in granite or 2,000 feet or 3,000 feet, and it s
below the water table and so there are no surface tension
effects, no air.
The other approach is to solve one of the problems unique to
Yucca Mountain. It arises because air is in the mountain and
creates an oxidizing atmosphere when the waste containers finally
develop some perforations by corrosion or cracking or whatever,
which is going to happen some day, then air-saturated water can
weep or permeate into the inside of the container and start
dissolving the solids there, like the uranium dioxide in the
spent fuel. If it were a granite repository, there would be no
air in the water.
In fact, the water in granite is in a chemically-reducing
environment because of dissolved ferrous iron, which is a
reducing agent, and the solubility of uranium dioxide, which is
the waste material from spent fuel, in reducing water is
extremely low. Extremely low; it works much better than it would
work at Yucca Mountain.
That s a major technical problem in Yucca Mountain the fact
that it s an oxidizing environment, and the uranium solubility
unfortunately becomes much higher because of that. It will
dissolve more rapidly and would release radioactive fission
products along the way, and you have to work harder to keep them
from giving enough radioactivity that eventually gets to the
ground water. Fortunately some radioactive materials like
219
plutonium preserve their solubility even in likely oxidizing
environment like that and they re no problem. But others are, so
that s the reason for the two proposals.
I think in both cases, we know how to design a system to do
this; it s not something Carter and I imagined. We studied many,
many reports, and experiments in other places. But it would
require a redesign of the waste emplacement system, and it would
be more complicated to load the repository with waste. The
current concept is you take these big containers which are made
out of a very expensive low corrosion metal, put them on flatbed
railroad cars and wheel them in on tracks, all remotely
controlled because they re so radioactive, and wheel them into
the room. And as soon as the track in that room is filled with
cars, you then plug up the room and do another one.
There is empty space between the container and rock walls of
the room, and water can drip from the ceiling onto the waste
containers, and it s diverting that drip that needs to be done.
You d have to have a mechanical system that moves or blows in- -it
can be done pneumaticallygravel, and then on top of the gravel,
sand, so that you really fill the rest of the room with this
diversion barrier.
Then you could have chemically-reducing material. When you
make the waste container, you simply take about thirty spent fuel
assemblies from pressurized-water reactors, each one about nine
inches across and sixteen feet long, so it s a big container, and
you put them in the container. About half of the space in the
container is simply void space filled with air. If you simply
filled that with a chemically-reducing material, it s easy to
show that there s enough chemically-reducing material that it
would remove the oxygen as fast as it comes in for hundreds of
thousands of years.
It would solve another major waste disposal problem because
one of the best chemically-reducing materials is additional
uranium dioxide. We have about 500,000 tons of that being stored
on the surface of the earth which are the byproducts of making
enriched uranium for weapons and also reactor fuel--isotope
separation. It s purified uranium; of course it s radioactive.
Its half -life is mainly billions of years, but as it sits there,
radium grows from decay of uranium and it s an extremely toxic
material. In a few thousand years it will grow to enough
concentration that it becomes dangerous. It peaks concentration
in a few hundred thousand years, and that s a lot of waste.
The government refuses to call it waste because they claim
it is beneficial material with a market value. If we ever have
220
breeder reactors, it could fuel breeder reactors for millennia-
many tens of thousands of years. But we don t have breeder
reactors and are not going to for a long while. It looked for a
while like there was a market to make tips for artillery shells
because the high density of uranium- -enormous density, much
greater than leadmakes it the best material for penetrating the
armor of tanks. And we re using it, but to the people who want
to sell it, there are not enough wars to give a good market for
that, fortunately there aren t, and so there sit the 500,000 tons
of uranium. Officially it s not called waste, even though
they re beginning to realize there s no market for it.
Because something in the government regulations say if it s
officially a waste it must be treated quite differently than the
way it s treated now, and that would be very expensive. Well, I
think that s a national disgrace. It turns out that you couldn t
dispose of all the 500,000 tons this way in Yucca Mountain, but
it would be a good fraction of it. I think my calculation is
maybe 300,000 tons would be needed.
But then if you got that idea going, if we ever build a
second repository, then you ve got it. It doesn t take any
redesign of the rooms or anything. I think the one that has the
greatest potential is the capillary barrier, but both of them
should be used.
Interim Above-ground Storage of Nuclear Waste to Deter
Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons
Wilmsen: Now you ve also argued that there should be a temporary above-
ground storage facility until the repository is completed--one
location where it can all be assembled. And it sounded like you
were saying a few minutes ago that that could be safe in that the
main issue is having the institutional capacity to keep it going.
That also raises the question of non-proliferation of plutonium,
which you ve also written about, or are starting to write about.
Pigford: Yes. Yes, I believe that our country and really all other
countries in the nuclear business are not giving enough attention
to the dangers of weapons proliferation from the plutonium made
from nuclear power reactors. Although, our country, I find, is
most sensitive to that issue.
**
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Pigford: I do believe that of all of the disposal techniques for spent
fuelat least in this country where all of that plutonium is
from nuclear powerthe disposal techniques in geologic disposal
are the best way of reducing the proliferation risks. I think we
sorely need the above-the-ground storage facility for two
reasons. One is to give enough time to do Yucca Mountain right,
because they will never make that schedule, and they should be
examining alternatives and doing a better job in terms of what
they re doing now. Having that national storage facility will
take the pressure off meeting an earlier deadline. The other
reason is it would also give, us a safer, more secure place than
where the spent fuel is being stored now, which is at reactor
sites, some of which are decommissioned sitesno, shut down.
Some sites have shut-down reactors; they can t decommission until
they get rid of that spent fuel.
And essentially there s no place to put the spent fuel.
Indeed, some utility companies are negotiating with the Indian
tribes to put in a centralized storage facility which they will
pay for on Indian land. And that might help, but in the absence
of that, I we have scores of utility companies that own nuclear
power sites. And I think they are all well motivated and they
have good guard forces to, among other things, avoid theft of
their material. But in the long run, when a nuclear plant is
permanently shut down the self-interest of an owner to continue
maintaining storage facilities tends to diminish and gives way to
doing it just because the government requires it. That will
happen to those sites where the reactors are shut down. Then
surely that s much more vulnerable to terrorist action to steal
spent fuel, for the purpose of obtaining plutonium, than if it
were at a federally owned, carefully guarded central facility.
You re replacing scores of dispersed facilities, each operated by
a different entity, with one central facility.
I don t think that central facility will guard that spent
fuel of plutonium as well as geologic disposal, although that s
arguable. Some people feel like there s going to be too much
temptation to intrude on a geologic disposal facility to steal
the spent fuel and get the plutonium. It s going to be hard to
do, but that s still arguable.
[Luther] Carter and I feel that geologic disposal is in the
long run much safer, but the main thing is to get that interim
facility in being now. The fuel all officially belongs to the
government, to the Department of Energy. The Atomic Energy Act,
or the Waste Disposal Act of the 1980s committed the government
to take title to it in 1998. The Department of Energy didn t
have any place to put it, so they tried to not take title to it.
The courts found them obligated to take title to it, but said
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Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Wilmsen:
Pigford;
Wilmsen:
Pigford :
that they have to simply make arrangements for its storage, and
it appears that what they re doing is simply paying the utility
companies to store it. There we are back in the same box, so
that s why we recommended strongly the interim storage facility.
Now how have your experiences evaluating nuclear waste
repositories and your overall research on nuclear waste
management affected your view of the nuclear power industry as a
whole?
Yes, before I answer that, we should return to the question of
proliferation, because I m actively involved in that from another
point of view, as well.
Okay.
Shall we do that or take your question?
Well, as long as we re talking about nuclear proliferation, let s
do that.
All right. As I have said before, even though I m retired, I
like to keep my hand in on technical issues, and every year I get
more into public policy issues related to nuclear energy. I ve
been writing a lot about the need for better safety standards for
geologic disposal, giving lots on papers on those, going to
international meetings, even trying to influence Congress on its
proposed legislation. I don t remember whether we got into that
or not. Did we?
Working with Congress on proposed legislation?
Not working with them, I m working against the people who
proposed it.
No, I don t think we did get into that.
Well, I ll come back to that in just a minute then.
Okay.
I ve achieved what results I think I can achieve on influencing
the standards for geologic disposal, and I have not been
completely successful, but along the way, I got involved in the
question of proliferation of nuclear weapons, which every year I
become more and more alarmed at the actions and the
possibilities. In 1994 and 95, maybe 93, I served on a
committee of the National Academy of Science which was to study
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means of disposing of surplus military plutonium. We haven t
talked about that.
Wilmsen: We mentioned it. We talked a little bit about it.
Pigford: All right. Then to review it briefly, there the study was
motivated because in a bilateral agreement with Russia, a certain
number of the former nuclear missiles are being demolished in
each country. And the nuclear warhead material then is a
concernwhat to do with it, mainly how to keep it from going
into other nuclear warheads. Each country will surplus fifty
tons of plutonium, and think of what that could do if it got into
the wrong hands. Fifty tons of plutonium. If each warhead
requires, say, just for the argument, five kilograms of plutonium
in it, that could make 10,000 nuclear weapons or 20,000 for the
total between the countries. And five kilograms of plutonium is
not very big. It s very dense. It could fit into a small
suitcase and it could be adequately shielded with paper or
plastic so that the potential for diversion of this to other
countries is great. And you can bet your life some other
countries are actively seeking to get material like that: Iran,
Iraq, North Korea, and probably others.
It has an enormously threatening potential, so the committee
was asked to study what techniques could be used to reduce the
threat of diversion. We considered several techniques. One
means which the Russians were greatly enthusiastic about was to
use the plutonium as fuel in nuclear power reactors. They
haven t done it. The French are doing a little of that now with
their civil plutonium.
Plutonium acts very well from a physics point of view--it
fissions and makes things critical in chain reactionbut
fabricating it into fuel is so toxic that it has to be done in
small work units like glove boxes, instead of a larger production
scale, as when fabricating uranium. So it s very expensive to
fabricate it, and we ve found that from the cost of facilities
for fabricating plutonium fuel for reactors, that it would not be
economical for any nuclear utility company in the United States
to do that. We also found that the Russians still are not onto a
capitalistic accounting technique and they make decisions on the
basis of what a project is to do, or on other senses of national
need or national gain. It s hard for them to believe that it s
not economical even though they haven t even built a fabrication
facility. We point to facilities built in Germany that never
started up; it showed the cost. But Russia is still dead set on
doing that.
224
The other part of that proposal that s wrong is the fuel
stays in the reactor about three years, but for this kind of
plutonium, only about half of it is consumed to make heat, and
the half that s left, that s spent fuel. Well, the people that
have nuclear fuel in processing plants thought we can reprocess
that and recycle and eventually burn it all up. But it turns out
it s so expensive to reprocess that kind of fuel, they re saying
just irradiate it in the reactor one time. So you still have cut
down the amount of plutonium by only a factor of two. Instead of
making 10,000 weapons, it s 5,000. You haven t done enough. And
that illustrates one problem. We haven t convinced the Russians
of that.
The other technique is to put it directly into a geologic
repository. To do so you dissolve it in borosilicate glass which
is being used to incorporate highly radioactive fission products
in a form from reprocessing we did in the days of the Cold War.
That forms a log of glass that can go into a repository, and it s
pretty stable.
Our plans are to do both of those. We re trying to convince
the Russians to do both as well. We hope that the Start II
Treaty, which is still not negotiated, will then release a lot
more nuclear material to be disposed of. And there s at least
another fifty tons of plutonium--at least that muchfrom each
country. So that s a big project that s going to take ten to
twenty years to complete.
In this country, the government has contracted for some of
the nuclear power reactors in the East Coast to be fueled with
surplus weapons plutonium, and the government will pay the cost
of that. So half the plutonium will be done that way, and then
that spent fuel will go to geologic disposal when it s ready.
The other half of plutonium will be made into glass.
But in doing that study, then, Luther Carter and I
recognized that there s a growing inventory of spent fuel from
nuclear power reactors. The nuclear power industry had earlier
thought that that inventory would not be very great because that
spent fuel would be reprocessed.
France and Britain are doing that now, commercially, and
they re doing it for other countries. And Japan plans to start
up its own industrial scale reprocessing plant. Their plans call
for it in the first decade of the next century. They probably
won t make it. But the total capacity of those three plants-
Russia doesn t have a commercial plantare not enough to handle
all the spent fuel that s coming out. Spent fuel inventory will
225
grow and grow. And the inventory of separated civil plutonium
will grow and grow. It can be made into bombs.
And it appears that those three reprocessing plants are not
economical now- -they thought they were during the first few years
of operationand Japan probably will not complete its plant. So
the spent fuel inventory is growing, and each ton of spent fuel
is about ten kilograms of plutonium: enough to make two bombs.
Of course it s in a well-protected form because the spent
fuel is so radioactive that it would take a lot of skillful
technique to steal it. The containers are sixteen to eighteen
feet long, each weighing a half a ton, but it can be done. The
amount of plutonium incorporated in the accumulating supply of
spent fuel which has not gone to geologic disposal will be in the
neighborhood of 1,000 tons in the next decade. The world
inventory of separated civil plutonium will soon reach about 250
tons .
Even worse, when France and Britain have reprocessed spent
fuel for Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, Japan, and some other
countries, those countries aren t ready to use the plutonium.
And that was the reason they had that fuel reprocessed: they
thought they would have a use for that plutonium. Some of them
thought they would have breeders by now, which they won t.
France is moving to use some of its own plutonium as fuel, but
there are now about 100 tons of separated plutonium on stockpile
in France and Britain at those reprocessing plants.
They re not run by the military. These are commercial
ventures, although both are owned by the government. But somehow
we cannot believe that there is the same kind of incentive to
protect that plutonium from theft as there would be to protect
the surplus weapons plutonium which is still under the military.
I can t say for sure, because I don t know the details.
And the amount of plutonium that s growing- -separated
plutonium- -continues to grow until they decide to shut the plants
down. Even then there s that spent fuel. So our latest missive,
which is coming out in February 2000 in the journal from the
National Academy of Science called Issues of Science and
Technology, is to call world attention to this and ask that it be
given the same priority handling as protecting, safeguarding, and
disposing of surplus military plutonium. It s going to cause a
lot of flak, which makes it that much more fun.
We re recommending that the reprocessing plants in France
and Britain be shut down. It doesn t bother us much because
we re pretty sure they are not economical. Their remaining
226
argument, which is a very persuasive one, is that in France that
reprocessing plant gives jobs to 7,000 people. It s in Normandy
and they don t have a lot of industry there anyway, but we re
hoping to stimulate enough world opinion to maybe help that
happen.
Now let s see.
Efforts to Stop Overly Lenient Standards in Proposed Legislation
Wilmsen: You were going to talk about Congress and people introducing
bills that you re opposed to.
Pigford: Yes. Incidentally, I can give you a copy of this paper if you--
Wilmsen: I think you might have given me that one.
Pigford: I probably did.
Wilmsen: Yes, I think you did.
Pigford: Okay, so you know that story. Now, as for my efforts on
influencing the safety standards for Yucca Mountain:
In the 1980s when I served on the National Research
Council s board on radioactive waste management, EPA had sent its
proposed protection criteria to us back for review and comment.
And I found that the criteria were foolish, unprotective, and an
enormous departure from any reasonable standards that we use
nowadays, without any justification for the great leniency.
Congress got into it for Yucca Mountain because they heard
that Yucca Mountain would have a hard time fulfilling those
criteria. So Congress then asked the National Research Council
to undertake a study of what the technical basis should be for
proper and adequate criteria for health protection for future
people from Yucca Mountain, and we wrote our report.
It s a very complicated issue. I dissented strongly from
all of the members of the committee in terms of how to make the
calculations. They wanted to effectively calculate radiation
exposures to the average people. I m sure I ve talked about
this.
Wilmsen: Yes, you did talk about this. But I don t think you made a
connection, or not a strong connection, with Congress.
227
Pigford: All right. So in that background, I got into this. EPA was
supposed to come up with a new standard for Yucca Mountain.
Congress told it to. For years EPA did nothing. Finally in
August of this year, 1999, four years after the National Research
Council report was issued, EPA came up with a new standard.
Congress reasonably got very annoyed with the lack of action by
EPA. It s foolish to have a project like Yucca Mountain
designing towards a safety goal that hasn t been set! It s like
designing a car when you haven t decided how many wheels it will
have. So industry, the nuclear industry, was pressuring Congress
to do something- -mainly to create the interim storage facility,
but get Yucca Mountain moving better. So Congress proposed new
legislation; it proposed about two different bills one in the
House and one in the Senateevery year beginning in 1996 or
1997.
I was asked by some of the environmental groups to look over
the proposals. I was also asked, I guess informally, by some of
the state agencies, and I found that Congress was proposing to
bypass the EPA completely. I can understand they re fed up with
the delays, but by-pass EPA completely and they, Congress, will
write the standard? Well, Congress, in my view, should never get
into this. It s highly technical, detailed public policy. You
can do so much mischief unknowingly.
For example, every piece of such legislation that has come
out has had leniency in it- -sometimes hidden, but built inthat
would create allowable release of radioactivity that would be
thousands of times greater than what we now allow for, say,
licensed nuclear power plants. These things weren t so obvious,
but I ve done enough work in the field and know how to calculate
the result of various proposals. The vicinity average dose that
came from Congress where did they get it? They got it from a
lobbying institute of the nuclear industry, and I fault the
nuclear industry for giving them that. That itself would then
mean that some people would get very high doses. If the vicinity
average dose met the Congressional proposed limit, which was
pretty high itself, then the poor farming family who might live
over the stream of contaminated water use that for well water,
and for watering crops and drinking- -could get thousands of times
greater.
Pretty soon I got into the routine of writing to senators
and to congressmen every time these came up. I ve never done
that before. I ve always felt that you should be very cautious,
because I think the political process is so important, and I
don t know enough about it. But I knew this was wrong, so I ve
been doing that. I don t know if this had any effect. In fact,
every year, the proposed bills never got through because Congress
228
was warned that the president would veto them. And I suspect the
president s main reasons for saying that is because of political
pressure from the State of Nevada, but recently he s also said,
"and because it would be an unnecessarily lenient standard."
Whether that s a result of my efforts, I don t know, but at least
the Congressional legislation has never gotten through.
Pigford: A more recent bill proposed by Congress has dropped the proposal
of regulating safety on the basis of the vicinity-average
calculated dose. It doesn t have these leniency factors of
thousand in it, but they re still not adequate. It endorses the
10,000-year cutoff. In fact, in my view, it s a sham. But I ve
gone about as far as I can go.
Wilmsen: So writing letters was the extent of your involvement with
Congress other than serving on various committees and advising?
Pigford: In recent years I haven t testified, although I guess I was asked
to, but I haven t testified on this issue. During the earlier
years I testified to Congress on reactor issues and I mentioned
that before, I think.
Wilmsen: Yes, you ve mentioned that. Did you have any hand in shaping
legislation such as the 1982 Nuclear Waste Policy Act, or the
amendments that were passed in 1987, or the 1992 Energy Policy
Act?
Pigford: I know I did review some of the proposed legislation. In both of
them I was concerned that they had a provision that no interim
storage facility would even be initiated by the Yucca Mountain
project until they had safety approval for the geologic disposal
facility. I knew that was just wrong. They need their interim
storage facility now for the reasons I ve given. And I think it
will be decades before they get safety approval for that design.
I was told that that was put in at pressure from the executive
office, which would have been Reagan or Bush, or both, to appease
the State of Nevada who thought that an interim storage facility,
if ever constructed, would then by default commit to putting the
geologic disposal facility at Yucca Mountain, in Nevada. It
would effectively commit the project to Nevada, even though at
that time the official policy was to see if the site would be
suitable for a repository.
And that s a pretty good argument , but I think the balance
is they need it so badly and have needed it, that they should
have gone ahead. I probably wrote something about that through
the National Research Council. I can t remember. I didn t get
229
into the business of writing to senators and congressmen until
later.
Wilmsen: But that was a provision of the 1987 act, wasn t it?
Pigford: Yes.
More Caution Needed; Reflections on the Rapid Development of
Nuclear Power
Wilmsen: Yes. Okay, back to the question I asked a while ago: How have
your experiences with evaluating nuclear waste repositories and
your research in nuclear waste management in general affected
your view of the nuclear power industry as a whole?
Pigford: Well, as a narrow answer, the industry itself officially is not
responsible for high-level waste management--spent-fuel waste
management. The act gave the Department of Energy that
responsibility. Yet the industry had an oversight right because
they were paying for the project through taxes on electricity
sold, and I think they should have exercised that oversight
right. They tried to influence DOE s supervision of the project,
but it never amounted to much. And because I think industry
generally is better than government at carrying out complicated
engineering projects like the Alaska pipeline and things like
that--their oversight would have helped. They are used to
knowing that you have to be more conservative and allow for
uncertainties. Their influence was sorely needed.
In other countries like in Sweden, the responsibility for
the high-level waste disposalin fact, with all of the waste
disposallies with their industry, which is privatized. And I
think it s a much healthier project, as a result. The government
does have responsibility in oversight and approval and so forth.
So that was lacking. In a broader point of view, it became
more and more evident to me as I saw the delays and the
likelihood of much more delays, because I was deeply in the
technical analysis of these projects, that waste disposal was
going to have an enormous effect. The problems of waste
disposal, which are technical as well as political, are going to
have an enormous effect upon the continuation of nuclear power.
And it should. The industry frequently made claims that it s
only a political problem; it s a trivial technical problem.
Well, they were wrong, and our research at the university showed
that. DOE s own safety analyses now show that! You need to read
230
between the lines of all the project delays and so forth. I
think that the reality of that has caused a lot of disenchantment
within the industry itself. It s one of the reasons they are not
building any more nuclear power plants, although the main reason
is the economics as well as greater disenchantment on the part of
the broad scientific community and the public.
Wilmsen: Knowing what you know now, do you think it was wise for the
government, and industry also, to pursue nuclear power so
aggressively as they have beginning with Eisenhower s Atoms for
Peace program?
Pigford: Like if I knew then what I know now about the availability of
natural gas? Well, of course the answer is no. But that kind of
hindsight is not very useful. I think the better way to frame
the question is could the industry, and the government in
sponsoring the industry, have done things to avoid some of the
pitfalls and near disasters? And they could.
It was right to develop the industry without the appearance
of natural gas, which was a complete surprise. Nuclear power was
economical; coal was going to have to become much more
uneconomical because of the environmental controls; oil you can t
afford to burn in power plants; and they were right to proceed.
I think they proceeded too rapidly. There were extravagant
claims made that were unjustified, and they should have been more
cautious technically.
More Reflections on the Department at Cal
Hans Mark: Department Chair, the Free Speech Movement, and
National Defence
Wilmsen: I had a few more questions about the department at Berkeley.
Hans Mark succeeded you as the department chair in 1964. I was
wondering if you could talk a little bit about how he was
selected as the new chairman.
Pigford: Well, it was an unusual choice, and of course the choice was
made the procedure is the dean nominates a man, and the
chancellor approves it. But you mean what really happened. It
was an unusual choice because he was not a full professor and he
was junior to several full professors in the department. But the
dean canvassed every member of the department like he was
supposed to, and he also interviewed many other people who have
231
had a lot of dealings with the department during those years and
he selected Mark. And I think it was mainly because already Hans
Mark was showing signs of brilliance as a leaderespecially in
scientific projects, but also as a good administrator.
Like many such people, he was somewhat controversial. He s
very active and works very hard, and sometimes you create a
little baggage along the way. I ve forgotten his position at the
Livermore Laboratory. Well, before he came to us, he actually
was an assistant professor of physics at MIT, or an associate
professor; I ve forgotten which.
Wilmsen: Was he one of your students in that naval program?
Pigford: No, no, no. He was in the physics department.
Wilmsen: Oh, in the physics department.
Pigford: I didn t know him then. He worked in the summers at the
Livermore Laboratory and he was a protege, really, of Edward
Teller, much more so than I was. I guess he had some
administrative duty at Livermore in the physics division. I
don t think he at that time was much involved in weapons work.
Not to my knowledge .
Wilmsen: At MIT or when he became department chair?
Pigford: Well, I was thinking of when he worked at Livermore.
Wilmsen: Oh, at Livermore.
Pigford: MIT, I m sure not, and not as the department chairman at
Berkeley. The reactor project had gotten started. It was not
yet under construction, but that was an active projectvery
focussed--and he took that over, did a very effective job. Very
charming, energetic, friendly person, and very smart.
Wilmsen: Then he took over the chairmanship, and then just about
immediately the Free Speech Movement broke out.
Pigford: Yes, well, that stirred up another side of Hans Mark. His family
had been, I think, in Austria. And his father (he was a very
famous organic chemist). He escaped and brought the family from
that country when the Germans took over. The tradition in that
family was that the oldest son would be a professor like his
father, and that was Hans.
I ve heard the story that Hans Mark had other relatives,
maybe an uncle or grandfather, who were active politically in
232
that country. And there s a political side to Hans Mark which he
told me several times was part of his heritage. So when the Free
Speech Movement broke out, well, he headed into it, and we had
some wonderful initiatives in our department to talk with the
students, have meetings with them in our department.
In fact, we found the students were kind of lackadaisical
and not that much interested in it. We tried to get them
interested, not in the rioting part of it, but in the academic
issues that went with it. There were some very legitimate ones,
and Hans saw the need for that, and he organized things like
that. He spent a lot of time on it.
Wilmsen: Did any of the students respond and get interested?
Pigford: Oh, yes, yes. He warmed up a lot of students, and we undertook
to revise our curriculum, which we did, and it was for the good.
Wilmsen: How did you revise the curriculum?
Pigford: Well, we had been initially mainly a graduate department. It was
a graduate program that I started, seemingly as it was at MIT.
But we saw the need for involving ourselves with undergraduates,
which we needed to do to become more of a part of the university.
We felt undergraduates needed to have the chance of being exposed
to what we teach, which more and more of them are doing. And so
we, I think at that time, initiated the undergraduate program.
We made sure that we carried out student appraisals of teachers
and posted the results; we were one of the first departments to
do that. We had effectively a departmental ombudsman, as the
university has one. Some of those things have died by the
wayside in the department as well as on the campus.
In our department we were perplexed that actually so few of
the students on the north side of the campus, which is mainly
engineering and the geosciences, seemed much interested in the
Free Speech Movement.
Wilmsen: That s interesting.
Pigford: I guess some people viewed us as stirring up needless problems.
Wilmsen: You mean by trying to stimulate student--
Pigford: Yes.
Wilmsen: How did you feel about Hans Mark s involvement in nuclear weapons
research?
233
Pigford: Actually, I don t know that he was involved in nuclear weapons
research. I d say he was with the physics department at
Livermore during the summers from MIT. Now it s reasonable to
suspect that maybe he was, but I don t know what he did. Well, I
do know he was working on instrumentation, and some of that might
have been motivated by nuclear weapons. He was not, to my
knowledge, involved in design of nuclear weapons.
Now, many, many years later, after he left the university
and became a fairly influential person in the Defense Department,
he finally became secretary of the air force. Before secretary
of air force, I think he had an appointment with the Pentagon
relating to, among other thing, nuclear weapons.
And he s back there now. After leaving Washington, he
became chancellor of the University of Texas this is the whole
University of Texas system. Then I think a year ago, he retired
from that and went back to Washington to be the senior technical
man in the Defense Department, and I m sure that s loaded with
nuclear weapon issues.
Wilmsen: Was anybody doing nuclear weapons in the nuclear engineering
department at Cal?
Pigford: Not to my knowledge.
Few Women and Minorities in the Department
Wilmsen: Now when you were chair, the three times that you were chair of
the department, how did you handle questions- -or did such
questions come upabout women and minorities in nuclear
engineering?
Pigford: Very little. It was apparent that there were precious few
minorities. We did have some women, but they were a small
percentage. And some of them were pretty good. I frankly don t
know how we compared with other departments. I suspect civil
engineering might have had a better record of more women. I
don t know about minorities. I don t think the statistics of our
department or any of the engineering departments bear well for
that.
We had a lot of Muslim country students. Iran tried to very
actively get into nuclear energy and sent students to many
universities. That was for a short period. So that s just the
record and not much was done about it.
234
Wilmsen: Was there any particular reason why not much was done?
Pigford: I guess we just sort of found that we were like, as I say, every
other department. I don t know any department that really had
much of a record of seeking out and doing something about it.
Well, I guess we did a little. For graduate student applications
we would consider, among other things, how to balance our
minorities, but we didn t find much opportunity. It just was an
unattractive field for them.
Committee Work on Campus
Wilmsen: What have been some of your more important committee assignments
on campus? What you feel are more important.
Pigford: Well, I was and I think I must have mentioned this--a member of
the committee on privilege and tenure.
Wilmsen: You did mention that.
Pigford: Which is an innocuous sounding committee, but it s loaded.
Complaints about faculty, mainly, against faculty, or even
faculty against the administration, are immediately referred to
that committee. It s very sensitive because faculties can have
such hard feelings, petty feelings, sometimes for good reason.
When I first came to the campus, I was just loaded on
committees. I guess it s because the chancellor and the dean
thought since I was a pretty young person to be coming in as a
department chairman--! was thirty-seven years old, which was a
very senior appointment at that age--I was supposed to hold my
place, whatever that means. And among the power struggles, and
there were a lot of those especially on getting space--! got to
learn the ropes.
I immediately found myself on a committee on environmental
health and safety. There s a campus organization nonacademic
which administers environmental health and safety programs
throughout the campus, especially in places like chem labs, where
there are noxious chemicals, and anyplace dealing with
radioactive materials. Since I was about to greatly expand that
kind of activityincluding a nuclear reactor--! guess they
wanted me to at least be exposed to the kinds of concerns. The
committee, I found, had lots of powermaybe not clearly
delegated authority, but it didn t bother us and we shuffled
personnel in that administrative unit. If we didn t think they
235
were doing the job, we hired a new head of it. I mean,
officially we recommended to the chancellor that he hire a new
head, and found the person and so forth.
And being a department chairman, then you re immediately on
several committees with the deans because he then has to
administrate and get consensus and has to consultat least, he s
learned it s a good idea to consult the department chairmen on
budgets, on competition for space, and things like that. It is
the competition for space that is the most intense one. Budget
is next.
Wilmsen: What are some of the major battles for space that you remember?
Pigford: Well, I was immediately thrust into that because our department
didn t have any real laboratory, and we wanted it to be heavily
experimental. We had rather crummy offices. In those days there
were wooden buildings called the T buildings, and we were in
building T-4. Those had been constructed during World War II.
They were expected to be torn down right after the war, but they
survived for about two decades. Actually I liked that because we
had essentially a building to ourselves and we didn t worry too
much about the amenities.
We were deeply involved in participating in the design of
our wonderful facilities in a new building project. I came at
just the right time, because it s hard to get involved in a new
building project on campus,
space in new buildings.
It s not easy. People fight for
They wanted to put our department out at the Richmond Field
Station where civil engineering had some facilities (naval
architecture has a ship-towing tank out there), but I insisted we
be as near the middle of the campus as possible because we wanted
to have the library and seminars from other departments at our
elbow. We were going to be as interdisciplinary as possible.
And that was a real battle. Properly so, because a lot of people
who knew about nuclear fields and radioactivity feared that we
might really do things that would be a great detriment to the
campus. As it turned out, we turned out really to be one of the
more innocuous uses. It was with people like chemistry and
health sciences and Conner Laboratory, who are just on the
fringes of nuclear, who don t know enough about it it s not
their main thingwhere the carelessness has occurred through the
years .
And there are so many committees for I was on a statewide
committee on privilege and tenure for all the campuses. I was
on the dean s committee to plan for a new future for the college
236
of engineering. What s the future? What are the new directions,
and so forth. And they do this about once every three or four
years. In fact, I found myself spending it seemed like all my
time on committees. It was hard to get any work done.
But I insisted on teaching. During my last tenure as
chairman when my hearing was getting bad, I didn t teach so much,
but during my first tenure, I taught as much as I could. I
started several new courses. I taught, I think, every course in
the department, and I tried to get the other faculty to do that,
too.
Sibling Rivalry. Music, and Family Support
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
Now where has your family fit into all of this?
your brother.
You mentioned
Yes, well, I have already mentioned him. He was both an
inspiration as well as a challenge. It turned out to be hard on
me to have selected the field of chemical engineering that he was
already so famous in, however, there are a couple of stories
about that that are worth repeating.
Pigford: As I said, I always felt I was dominated by his reputation, even
through high school, especially when I got to college and
graduate school. He was five years senior, but I came to the
Berkeley campus first. He then decided to leave his university,
University of Delaware, in about 1967 and took a post in the
Department of Chemical Engineering. Since Berkeley thinks it s
run by the faculty, seniority has much to play, and I was senior
to him because I d been there first. It was fun to see my name
coming up more frequently than his.
Then I got another way of getting even with him. We both
love to play music. He had been a very accomplished clarinet
player in high school, and I had played the french horn five
years later. I was not very accomplished, although I played it
in college, too.
By the time he had come to the campus, I had finally taken
up the oboe, which I love to play. I had loved the sound of it,
and finally simply neglected some of my work in the mid-sixties
to learn to play the oboe. He was still playing the clarinet, so
237
Wilmsen:
Pigford:
we organized chamber music groupsusually a woodwind quintet of
oboe, bassoon, clarinet, flute, and french horn.
And in that group the oboe is the lead instrument. It is
the soprano instrument. Of course the flute is, too, but the
oboe has a stronger voice. We would get together about once a
week and play chamber music either at his house or mine. We had
a tool and die maker who was a good bassoonist, a surgeon who was
a french horn player, and occasionally my daughter, Julie, played
the flute with us until she got so good that she wouldn t play
with us any more. But the nice thing about chamber music is that
it s very compact, as you know, and you have different voices.
The way you play it, you can throw a certain connotation of the
music line to the next player and make him respond in a different
way. You can be sarcastic, you can be aggressive, you can be
tawdry, negligent, asking for a lazy approach, whether he wants
to play aggressively, and there s a lot of personal interaction
without words going back and forth. And being the senior player
of the quintet because of my instrument, I was able to tease my
brother a great deal.
Oh. [laughs]
I have mentioned how our research finally brought us together.
That happened actually after he had departed from Berkeley and
gone back to the University of Delaware many years later. But
the music also brought us together in a way we never experienced
before. When I was a kid, he was so much older than I that we
just had nothing to do with each other, although I learned even
then the fun of teasing him as a young kid brother can do.
I was able to make him so angry. One night he was working
on his amateur radio and he picked up a B battery, which is
pretty heavy and threw it right at me and cut enough over the eye
that I was able to convince my mother that he was just a demon.
And that was a lot of fun.
Now,
brother.
let s see. Now the question involved more than my
Wilmsen: Yes. Other family members?
Pigford: Well, of course they were all very supportive in different ways.
The fun of teaching my two daughters musicenough so that they
found it fine; then you have to learn music, plus instilling
self -discipline so that practicing music became a way of life.
That was fun. And my two wives my first wife, Katy, now
deceased, and now Betty: they ve both given me great, great
support, putting up with an awful lot of crap.
238
[Let me tell you something about them. 2
Chronologically,
there was my first wife, Katy. Her maiden name was Catherine
Kennedy Cathey. She grew up in Florence, Alabama, a small town
about two hours drive from my hometown, Meridian. She was
educated to be a school teacher, but she didn t like that. So
during World War II she took a job at the Reynolds Aluminum
Company, just across the Tennessee River from her home town.
Reynolds was participating in the war effort, and they sent her
to Cambridge, Massachusetts to work in a metallurgical laboratory
they had there. After the war she became a research assistant in
the Department of Metallurgy at MIT, and was there when I
returned to MIT as a graduate student in 1945. I met her one day
when she was visiting a friend, Phyllis Dakin, who was a
secretary for Professor McAdams in chemical engineering. We
found that we had mutual friends, some guys from Florence who
occasionally showed up at beer parties at the graduate-student
dormitory where I lived. One was called Whiskey Joe McClosky.
I occasionally ran into Katy in the MIT hallways. I started
hanging around Professor McAdams office. Through the years I
had developed a kind of phobia against Southern girls, probably
arising from what seemed to be their aloof behavior because I did
not play football. I never saw any of them play tennis or any
other kind of sports. But Katy was different. She had overcome
her Southern drawl and could speak with proper diction. We both
loved Boston. She liked to play tennis and swim. And she was a
lovely young woman. We were married on December 31, 1948. That
entitled her to list me as an income-tax deduction for the entire
year of 1948.
Katy kindly and patiently put up with my long and late hours
in my research laboratory, where I was doing experiments for my
doctoral dissertation. Then a year later came the new assignment
to be the head of MIT s new School of Engineering Practice at Oak
Ridge, Tennessee. We trundled down to Tennessee in our old
Chevrolet named Persephone. We really didn t want to live in the
south again, but it was only a two-year assignment. But Katy put
up with a lot. Although I was now a member of the regular
faculty in MIT s chemical engineering department, I was still a
graduate student writing my doctoral dissertation. That occupied
lots of evening hours and weekends. Never had I been so busy.
Because of the general secrecy of all the work at Oak Ridge, I
could not share with Katy the details of our technical work at
the Practice School. But she was a fine house mother for the
many MIT graduate students, who were housed in a nearby
2
Professor Pigford added the bracketed material during his review of
the draft transcript.
239
apartment. And we were buoyed along in our anticipation of
returning in two years to MIT, in Cambridge.
Then back to MIT in 1952 for a new and exciting career to
start nuclear engineering with Manson Benedict. It was a relief
to be out of the secrecy environment. We bought our first house
in Lexington, Mass. Our first daughter, Cindy--her maiden name
is Cynthia Thomas Pigford--was born that fall. Two and a half
years later our second daughter, Julie Catherine Pigford,
arrived. This was the closely knit family that supported me in
every possible way throughout so much of my career. Sadly, Katy
developed a whole series of serious medical problems in the 1980s
which led to her untimely death in 1992.
Our life was filled with hard work and joy--music, sailing,
hiking, skiing, and devotion to learning. Cindy and Julie both
graduated from UC Davis in biological sciences. Cindy was then
trained as a laboratory technologist for work in a hospital.
Julie enrolled in graduate study at UC Santa Cruz, where she
received her doctorate in biochemistry. Both are happily
married. They have presented me with five lively grandchildren.
The oldest, Cady, is in her second year of college. This fall
Daniel will enter UC Berkeley as a freshman and member of the Cal
Marching Band. Matthew, Cindy s youngest will enter college in
another two years. Julie s Carolyn is a budding young artist.
Young David is still in kindergarten.
After Katy s death I was immersed in work, work, work-
largely through serving on university committees, safety-
assessment committees, consulting, and travel. My pastime, what
little there was, turned to the Berkeley Tennis Club, which I had
joined a couple of years previously. Except for a few pick-up
games with family, I had played little tennis since forty years
ago, when I played at Georgia Tech. My mind remembered the kind
of tennis I played in college, but my aging body demanded
something else. I slowly learned the much slower movements of
senior tennis. But I was lonely and depressed, with little
feeling of purpose in life.
But then life became wonderful again. I met and married
Betty Hood Weekes, a beautiful, intelligent woman also from
Boston, educated at Vassar. The tennis club sponsored
mixed-doubles tennis socials during the summer. Each participant
is given a card with a pre-arranged schedule of partners and
opponents for the evening, similar to a senior prom. In the
first set this lovely blond woman, whom I had never met, was
serving. She aced me on the first serve, shattering my ego as a
macho tennis player! In the last set, we played together. We
wiped out the opponents! Then I took her sailing and learned
240
that she had grown up racing a twelve- foot Herreshoff sloop in
Marion, Massachusetts, where her family had summered. She has a
sunny, happy, outgoing personality and is most considerate of
others. I was smitten! Developing a deep and lasting relation
with Betty became the principal purpose in my life. It still is.
We were married in November 1994, in an outdoor service by a
lake, at a ranch in the wilderness of northern California, near
Boonville. Our home is in Oakland, built on a lot burned out by
the devastating Berkeley-Oakland fire of 1991.
Betty has two daughters from a previous marriage, both
lovely and talented girls. Janvrin teaches at a private school
in New York city; Laura is a budding actress in Hollywood.
As wear and tear from sports like tennis finally take their
toll, Betty and I turn more to activities like gardening,
walking, travel, and skiing. Downhill skiing doesn t have the
competitiveness of tennis and sailing, but it is much easier on
the body, as long as one is careful to avoid falling. Skiing has
become our favorite sport together.
Betty has no training in science, which is a real asset in
our relationship. Her own career has led her through service on
various nonprofit organizations. She is interested in my work
and encourages my continued professional activities, now
consisting mostly of presenting papers at meetings on safety,
disposal of radioactive waste, and arms control and writing on
socio-technological issues. She has a fine sense of right and
wrong and effective presentation, which I value enormously. Her
input benefits my efforts to write articles that communicate more
to the general public. She comes from a fine New England
upbringing. Her insight into the visual arts of painting,
sculpture, and architecture have opened new vistas for me.
Betty is now the joy in my life that makes living
worthwhile! The honors, kudos, and successes in my long
professional career pale in comparison to the love and
companionship that I get from her.
I dedicate this oral history to Betty.]
3
We have to go, Carl.
Wilmsen: Okay. That was just about it, anyway.
3
End of inserted material.
241
Pigford: If any subjects come up that you want me to add by note, give me
a call.
Wilmsen: Okay.
Pigford: And I will add these written questions Betty had asked in
response to the first interview transcript when we get into the
editing period.
Wilmsen: Okay.
Transcribed by Amelia Archer
Final Typed by Vania Gulston
242
TAPE GUIDE--Thomas H. Pigford
Interview 1: September 21, 1999
Tape 1, Side A 1
Tape 1, Side B 20
Tape 2, Side A 28
Tape 2, Side B 37
Tape 3, Side A 46
Tape 3, Side B not recorded
Interview 2: September 29, 1999
Tape 4, Side A 48
Tape 4, Side B 55
Tape 5, Side A 64
Tape 5, Side B 72
Interview 3: October 14, 1999
Tape 6, Side A 80
Tape 6, Side B 88
Tape 7, Side A 95
Tape 7, Side B 103
Tape 8, Side A 109
Tape 8, Side B not recorded
Interview 4: October 28, 1999
Tape 9, Side A 111
Tape 9, Side B 118
Tape 10, Side A 126
Tape 10, Side B 134
Tape 11, Side A 150
Tape 11, Side B not recorded
Interview 5: November 18, 1999
Tape 12, Side A 151
Tape 12, Side B 154
Tape 13, Side A 161
Tape 13, Side B 168
Interview 6: December 9, 1999
Tape 14, Side A 173
Tape 14, Side B 181
Tape 15, Side A 188
Tape 15, Side B 195
Tape 16, Side A 202
Tape 16, Side B not recorded
243
Interview 7: December 16, 1999
Tape 17, Side A 206
Tape 17, Side B 213
Tape 18, Side A 220
Tape 18, Side B 228
Tape 19, Side A 236
Tape 19, Side B not recorded
244
APPENDIX
A Trivial Pursuits: A Collection of Chronicles 245
B Comments from Colleagues 288
C Citations 290
D Curriculum Vitae for Thomas H. Pigford 293
E Thomas H. Pigford, List of Publications 300
F University History Series List 319
245
APPENDIX A
TRIVIAL PURSUITS:
*
A COLLECTION OF CHRONICLES
These chronicles are for the pleasure and education of Catherine, Daniel, Matthew,
Carolyn, and David*, little kids who are curious about their grandfather s pursuits,
however trivial they may be. The chronicles are not filtered for reading by children.
That is left to the mothers, Cindy and Julie, who grew to be fine adults with little
filtering by their parents.
These chronicles are also means to keep in touch with classmates, friends, and
colleagues, who are pressed into service for research, review, and writing about real
events. The author takes no responsibility for errors and mistakes from those sources.
In view of poor memory and unreliable data, any resemblance of the events and
characters of these chronicles to actual events and people may be purely coincidental.
Thomas H. Pigford
Berkeley, California
September, 1990
*
David arrived six years after the original chronicles. By this update we warmly greet
him and welcome him into the family.
246
Chapter 2. FOUR LESSONS FROM TOM SAWYER
This chapter is dedicated to Mr. Thomas Sawyer, teacher, tennis coach,
basketball coach, and teacher of special lessons of life.
Mr. Tom Sawyer
Tussling at Marion Park School
Tennis found me when I was a little blonde-haired kid in the fifth grade at Marion
Park Grammar School. Even though it was unbecoming for any member of my family to
waste rime playing games, tennis became a major force in my life. For me, tennis was
entirely a happening of unlikely chance, a consequence of unusual environment and
circumstances. Tennis became my only available outlet for tussling and competing,
fighting and football having been ruled out by the misfortunes of nose bleed and injury.
Little boys, like puppies and little bears, need to tussle with each other. At Marion
Park School tussling occurred during the short morning recess, called the "little recess" and
during the longer noon recess, or "big
recess". The best tussling was usually in the form
of fights. I was neither a pack leader nor one of the weak runts. I was as tall as any of
the boys, though a little skinny. Joe Blanks, a good friend, well coordinated, confident and
aggressive, usually emerged as the pack leader in our Marion Park group.
Unfortunately, my tussling was severely limited because <ny
nose bled # the
slightest bump, especially during the intense moments of a fight when adrenaline was up
247
and blood pressure high. I had become so accustomed to the nose bleed in early years
that it was no bother to me, but it frightened my teachers and aggravated my mother. She
spent much time repairing and laundering the shirts handed down from my brother so that
I could be properly dressed at school. All of my brother s shirts were white, so I was a
startling bloody mess when my nose bled. It must have embarrassed my teachers to send
me home with bloody shirts, and they always telephoned my mother to apologize for what
had happened at their school. This embarrassed my mother, who implored me not to fight.
She did not appreciate my simple solution of buying some red shirts or dying red those
handed down from my brother.
My brother, Robert, five years older than I, had been a model child. My mother
said that he had never fought, but it was an unfair comparison. My brother did not have
the nose bleed problem. He was a normal healthy kid, and he surely must have fought
during the tussling of his early years at Marion Park School. Probably, without a
nosebleed limitation, he was able to carry a fight far enough to serve the purpose, and
serious fights of anger were actually rare. I did see him once in a fight, off the school
grounds. East of my father s enormous garden on Poplar Springs Drive was, in those
days, undeveloped land with deep eroded gullies. Years later John Watts family built a
nice house there, adjacent to the grounds of the new Meridian High School. My brother
was still at Marion Park school, so I must have been less than six years old when I heard
much yelling and laughing from the gullies. I crept nearby and saw my brother being held
down by the boys in his gang. He had obviously been fighting. The other boys were
forcing him to smoke a cigarette of a local gray-leaved plant that we called "rabbit
tobacco". I was too little to interfere. For years that memory of my brother being held
down appeared in my dreams and nightmares. 1 tried rabbit tobacco years later, when I
was old enough to build a tree house and have a place of my own to try forbidden things.
It wasn t worth fighting over.
A virtue of any gang of little boys is their ability to make the most of any
situation. There were several different boy clans in my class at Marion Park School.
When things became dull, it was good sport for one of them to organize a fight to see my
nose bleed all over my white shirt and to witness the silly anxiety of the teachers. After a
few years of this at Marion Park School, it was understandable that I would become
cautious about being an active competitor, yet like all little animals I had a great desire to
compete and find my place.
Football At The Green House
Organized sport was a safer way for me to compete, but any contact sport had its
problems. I was a member of two weekend gangs. One, a couple of miles north of my
house on Poplar Springs Drive, included some really strong kids, Harris Walker, Ed
Henson, and Nate Williams. We had battles with other gangs, using wooden guns to shoot
heavy rubber bands made from automobile-tire inner tubes. I was a leader of that tussle
because I had learned to make special wooden guns with clothespin triggers that could fire
a whole salvo, like a machine gun. Only occasionally did one land in my face, but no one
cared
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But, there was no physical body-body contact in rubber-gun battles. It was too
much a test of ingenuity and trickery. Even to us kids, it was obvious that the real test of
manhood in Meridian was to play football. Weidmann s great restaurant was plastered
with photographs of football heroes. The entire town was focused towards the high-school
football season. Football athletes and former football stars were much revered. Football
was attractive to kids for tussling. We saw the high-school football players doing rough
things like tackling and blocking each other, with many injuries, all officially sanctioned by
the school and praised by the community. Our gangs would congregate on weekends for
unsupervised "sand-lot" football. The school playing fields were either too far away or not
available, but there was a fine green house on Poplar Springs Drive that had an enormous
front lawn. I soon learned to think of it as The Green House. It had been our football
field as long as I could remember.
We wore no protective equipment for football, no helmets of any sort. Face masks
were unheard of in those days. Some lucky fellows did have cleated shoes given to them
at Christmas. They had a real advantage, because we so tore up the lawn of The Green
House that better traction was needed in the loose dirt Of course, there were many nose
bleeds. With no teachers around to be concerned, the game continued, although I
sometimes had to drop out because of heavy bleeding.
The Green House
249
We felt that we owned The Green House. I do not recall who lived there during
-
the third and fourth grades, but during the first part of the fifth grade, in the height of the
football season, The Green House was vacant. Probably the former owners had moved out
in desperation, tired of being caretakers for the week-end football gangs. We were much
concerned about the new family that might come. They might even want to have a nice
green lawn like their neighbors. Someone, probably the real- estate agent, had already
begun shooing us off the big lawn at The Green House, to restore it so that the house
could be sold or rented.
In the midst of our fifth-grade year the new family arrived, some people named
Gainey, from Jackson, Mississippi. We knew that it must be a large family, for a lot of
people seemed to live in that house. We stayed off the lawn for a few weeks. Then,
without asking permission, we again began our weekend football games. To our surprise
and delight, we were not asked to leave. In fact, a boy in that family named Andrew,
who was already in Junior High School, occasionally joined us. He was strong and well
coordinated, an outstanding athlete. He was too good and too big to play with us much,
but he would occasionally run a play, act as referee, or show us how to pass. He later
became a football star in high school. He was a role model to us all.
Andrew s younger sister, a little dark-haired girl named Emma Gene, joined our
fifth-grade class at Marion Park. On her first day at school she was confused about the
"little" and "big"
recesses and spent all of her lunch money on snacks at the morning
recess. We must have thought that she was pretty dumb, and we must have teased her
about being a backwoods girl from Jackson. Little boys always look for some
nonconformity to pick at, to disguise their interest and curiosity. Otherwise, we never
noticed her. In our view, girls in our class were nothing more than unattractive nuisances,
and we were already on the defensive because the girls usually made better grades than
we.
The Mother of the Green House
The new family in The Green House was wonderfully tolerant about our football.
It was a nice arrangement. Our gang felt that we really owned The Green House, and we
were happy to have such good tenants. Some times the mother, Mrs. Gainey, would even
bring or send out lemonade and cookies. I was specially grateful when she noticed that I
left the game because of excessive nose bleed. She was wonderful! She didn t become
excited at the sight of blood like the teachers at Marion Park School, she didn t lecture me
on my foolishness in playing a rough contact sport, and she made no silly complaints
about my bloody shirt. She led me into the shade and brought crushed ice and cold
towels, meanwhile chatting about the nice game that was still going on. It was such a
nice experience! I wanted the bleeding to continue forever.
Mrs. Gainey s motherly attention was repeated many times, and I played harder and
had even more bloody noses. To me, she was a dream of a mother, the sweetest and most
beautiful imaginable! She had a heavenly, warm, inner glow. I soon had to leave football
and bloody noses, but I grew to love Mrs. Gainey. She and her family were in our
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church, the Central Methodist; -and- they sat on ~a- pew-four rows in front of ours. -1 -didn t
like having to go to church, and in my erratic attendance I noticed that Mrs. Gainey s
children did not always attend. But, Mrs. Gainey was always there, always remembering
me with a kind word after the ceremony. She even made me feel better about going to
church. My mother admired her as much as I did,
The Last Play in Football
Football came to a quick and drastic end for me. In one scrimmage at The Green
House, when at defensive tackle, I was blocked and bowled over by Nate Williams, a
monster of a guy. I landed on my back. Ed Henson, the ball carrier, drove through the
hole in the line, directly over me, stepping on my upturned face. He was one of the lucky
fellows who had shoes with hard rubber cleats. His shoe loosened some of my teeth, but
with the good traction he drove on to a touchdown. He was showing the style that made
him a football star in high school. His cleated shoe made a mess of my upper lip.
Fortunately, the long laceration was on the inside and did not show, but it should have
been stitched. For a few weeks I could hardly talk. For years I thought I had a horribly
distended lip. I expect that the lip really healed within a few months, but I worried about
it long after the Meridian era. I was clearly through with football! No reasonable coach
would have put up with a chronically nose-bleeding player. My parents would certainly
not let me participate again in such a mutilating game.
Ed Henson
If only helmets had been required and if face masks had existed, it might have been
a different story. It would not have been a good story, though. Football is a team sport,
and a football player must finally become a spectator. I soon found that I much preferred
individual activities, activities that I could continue throughout life. There was one
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exception, a fulfilling- year on- a-special -basketball-team organized -by-Mn -Tom Sawyer, the*
subject of a later chronicle.
The tussling of football was over, and nose bleeds continued to prohibit useful
fighting. I needed an activity without physical contact to find my place and to compete.
Tennis and Nell Sanders
Tennis became a favorite pastime for me, during the fifth grade at Marion Park
grammar school. There was a tennis court on the lower level, at the south end of the
school, just outside the classroom where Miss Brownlee taught the first grade. It was a
dirt court, always in poor condition. I have no idea why a grammar school would have a
tennis court. Tennis was not one of the subjects or organized sports. The fifth-grade
teacher, who was either Miss Alison or Miss Majure, must have liked tennis, for she
organized a tournament, I had never played, but tennis looked like a simple game,
although it seemed a little dull, stupid, and sissy. It was nothing like the gang action of
softball or football, which I played with my friends on the big lawn of The Green House.
I expressed my disdain to my friends, A. L. Cahn, William Blum, Winston Cameron,
George Bounds, Joe Blanks, and Clyde Brooks, some of whom were already playing tennis.
It probably led to another fight, of which there were many among the boys during the big
recesses at Marion Park. This time, instead of getting another bloody nose, I accepted the
dare to enter the tournament. It was disastrous! That I was matched in the first round
against some girl was bad enough. Worse, she thrashed me soundly. William Blum also
succumbed, so he and I proceeded to learn the game.
There were few courts around. The city courts at Highland Park were too far away.
We were not allowed that far from home. The Marion Park court was in terrible
condition, and lots of little kids wanted to use it for hop scotch or to play tennis with four
or five on a side. If only we had been patient, my brother actually built a full-fledged din
court on the vacant lot across the street from our house, where the miniature golf course
had once been. He never played much and did not play well, but he was a whiz at
building things. Taking care of the dirt court was too much trouble, so I later convened it
to basketball.
Just as in later years when we learned to play golf by sneaking onto the back holes
at the Nonhwood Country Club, William and I learned of a fine court at the Sanders
residence, two blocks south on Poplar Springs. The Sanders lived in a large Tudor
mansion on a hill, with an imposing winding driveway from the street. They had their
own nice hard-surface tennis court on the southwest corner, surrounded by trees and
hedges. The court was never locked, and we believed that the Sanders family would not
know if we slipped onto the court in the late morning or early afternoon.
None of us knew much about the Sanders, other than that they were fabulously
wealthy, from cotton gins and hosiery mills. They had lots of cars. There were five
Sanders girls, Claire, Stella, Julia, Helen, and Nell, the youngest and most bewitching.
There was whispering amongst us ten-year-olds that the girls were beautiful, rich, wild, and
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8
had been married many -times.-- Probably it was simply that they were the- usual well-bred
girls of Meridian but were of college age and beyond, too ancient for us to comprehend.
There was a book about the Sanders family, in the style of Peyton Place, written by Ed
Kimbrough in the 1930 s. There were also three sons, Benny, Jimmy, and Bob. Mr.
Sanders worked hard and long, in town and out, but he must have gotten home frequently!
All of that made tennis at the Sanders quite exciting. The elderly mother, whom
we referred to as Old Lady Sanders, was a tough old bird but friendly and kind to little
boys. She waved to us when she saw us playing, and requested only that we disappear
when the family wanted to use the court.
Next door to the Sanders property, on the north side and on Poplar Springs Drive,
was another mansion, known to my friends as the haunted house. It was occupied by an
uncle of my mother s, Uncle Cass Cochran and his wife Ethel. They must have been
wealthy, but I can remember being in that house only once or twice. It was fabulous, with
a grand piano and oak-panelled walls. The most striking possession was in the bathroom.
It was a low porcelain basin with faucets. My sister, Mary, and I were told that it was a
"bidet", but its function was never explained. We were too shy to ask. The bidet seemed
just the right size for bathing a baby, so I assumed that it had been installed ages ago
when their children were bom. But, it should have been as high as a sink. I concluded
that it was installed so low so that a little kid could climb in for a bath. It seemed like a
clever idea in bathroom training of infants and toddlers. Of course, I was the youngest of
my family and knew nothing about infants. There was not another bidet in Meridian, nor
did I see another until years later, when I and other Navy officers were invited to the
estate of the Crane family, the owners of Crane Porcelain, in Ipswich, Massachusetts.
Mary s second encounter with bidets was in a trip to Paris.
The Cochrans had a crotchety gray-haired old retainer named Henry, who was also
their chauffeur. It was he who would shout at the grammar-school students on their way
to Marion Park School. Probably that was why the house was thought to be haunted. It
was good that the Sanders tennis court was on the other side of their property, away from
interference by Henry.
One day, William and I were battling on the Sanders court, with tennis balls so
worn and fuzzless that it was more like a game of ping pong. A beautiful lady stepped
out onto the court, wearing a strange short white dress, which I later learned was a dress
made especially for tennis. We started to run, but she kindly told us that she was Nell
Sanders and asked if she could join our game. She opened a new can of white balls, a
new experience for William and me. She was evidently an experienced player. She knew
how to keep score, and she returned balls consistently and easily. She played the singles
court, against William and me in the opposite doubles court. She won, in the most polite
and graceful way. We wanted her to go on winning forever! This improved our tennis
considerably, both because we learned what it was like to play with real tennis balls with
fuzz and because we loved to watch Nell Sanders and her beautiful tennis strokes.
Occasionally, while Nell was playing the troisome with William and me, an elegant
long convertible would ascend the winding driveway, carrying a suave looking fellow who
253
looked like William Powell. Invariably he wore white -flannel tennis- clothes -and had a
new can of balls. The first time that he came, Nell shooed us away so that she could play
tennis alone with this idol. On later occasions we were allowed to stay for doubles with
Nell and her boy friend More frequently we were simply asked to stay around and have
lemonade. I could never imagine why Nell wanted us to stay, because her boyfriend was
even better than Nell, and both were out of our league. It may be because a ball would
occasionally be hit over the tall fence surrounding the court Unless chased instantly, it
would scurry down the hill of the Sanders lot and into a rain gutter, or down another hill
towards Marion Park school. We were good at chasing balls. We even recovered balls
for Nell and her boy friend between points, like ball boys in championship tennis matches.
I still wonder how Nell became such a good player. Tennis was not considered a
suitable serious activity for a girl in Meridian. There was no girls tennis team in High
School, and I never heard of girls taking lessons. The one exception was the daughter of
Mr. Guy, whom I describe later, who played only with her father. Maybe in one of her
many marriages Nell had lived in the North, where tennis for girls was accepted, perhaps
she had gone to college in the North, or perhaps it was another way for her to express her
infamous nonconformance with Southern tradition.
Nell played a good game without seeming to work very hard, a result of some good
coaching somewhere. It seemed to me that she never even perspired, which is hard to
believe in the stifling humid summer heat of Meridian. In fact, it is my perception that all
of the girls of my age, through grammar school, junior high, and high school, never
allowed themselves to be put into situations that required much physical exertion and
perspiration. Well bred Southern girls just didn t
perspire! Probably that is why Nell kept
William and me around to chase balls, even those that weren t hit off the court. Maybe
that is why so few Meridian girls actually played hard tennis.
The First Diversion
William and I were getting pretty good, playing on the Sanders court and with Nell
and her boyfriend whenever possible. I practiced every day, with whomever was available.
Getting rackets and balls was a continuing problem. In spite of this dedication, my
concentration on tennis was suddenly interrupted on the first day of school, in September
1934. That was the year that I was to enter the seventh grade, at the Kate Griffin Junior
High School, two miles away.
I was much depressed when instructed to ride to Junior High with my aunt, Alma
Harrington. She lived next door to us, with my Aunt Cora Harrington, two lovable old
maids. My Aunt Alma taught arithmetic in the seventh grade, and Aunt Cora worked in
the Junior High lunchroom. Aunt Alma drove to school every day in her old black
Chevrolet. I objected strongly to having to ride with anyone, because I did not need to be
escorted. I could easily ride the two miles on my bicycle, which I rode everywhere.
My objections disappeared the first morning of school when I saw waiting on our
porch swing the most beautiful young lady with coal-black hair! She was Snow White
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without the Seven Dwarfs, although I may have the Disney chronology out of place. "She
was Emma Gene Gainey, the little dark-haired girl who then lived in The Green House,
about a half mile north on Poplar Springs Drive. Her mother had arranged for Emma
Gene to walk to our house, to ride with my aunt to school. How could this little dark-
haired girl, whom I had never even noticed during one and a half years of grammar
school, suddenly have changed so much and become so desirable? She had a smile that
would warm the faintest heart I was smitten!
There was, in fact, an earlier affair, though only a short-lived infatuation. In the
fourth grade at Marion Park School there was a lovely young teacher named Miss Helen
Williams, probably in her twenties. She had just come to teach, and I fell for her on the
first day of class in September 1931. My mother soon noticed my strange behavior and
gently advised that Miss Williams was known to be already spoken for. My despair was
great, but common sense, undoubtedly expressed by my mother, prevailed, I wasn t about
to become involved in that love triangle. Indeed, she had married and departed by the
time we went to Junior High. It may have taken longer than a few days for me to get
over my disappointment with Miss Williams.
SHE 5 THE
PRETTIEST LITTLE
6IRL I VE EVER SEEM.
I U/ONDER WHAT
I COULP SAY TO
SET ACQUAINTED.
I PONT SUPPOSE \i
YOU HAPPEN TO I
HAVE ANY COOKIES |
MTU YOU, PO |
YOU SWEETIE?/!
7-23
The Little Dark Haired Girl
(drawing by Charles Schultz)
As far as I know, Emma Gene did not play tennis. I never thought of asking her.
The idea of doing such things with girls never occurred to me until I met the Harding
girls, at the Longwood Cricket Club, ten years later. The puzzle of the tennis-playing Nell
Sanders had already been filed away as an inexplicable anomaly. Thus, tennis disappeared
from my agenda. Instead, there was much more bicycle riding. I frequently cruised by
The Green House, hoping to get a glimpse of the little dark-haired girl.. One day when
her older sister, Marguerite, came out and photographed me on my bicycle, I thought that I
might be making progress.
Emma Gene was a close friend of another friend of mine, Dorothy Brewster, the
daughter of a friend of my father s. Dorothy was the first girl in our Marion Park class
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11
whom I knew. She was smart in all subjects but art and was terrific at hop scotch, but I
have no memory of her playing tennis. I don t remember if Dorothy rode to Junior High
school with my Aunt Alma, but she and Emma Gene and I were good friends in the
seventh grade.
As much as I enjoyed the company, riding to school with my aunt subjected me to
more pressure on arithmetic than I wanted She expected me to do well because I was a
boy. During these depression years boys had to learn things to eventually get jobs. My
sister never received such attention. Once in my aunt s seventh-grade class Jeanette
Freemen, a smart little girl who had gone to Stevenson Grammar School, raised her hand
to ask a question. Many other hands were up. Miss Harrington cut her off with,
"Jeanette, we don t have time for your question. These boys have questions, and they have
to learn and get jobs."
Wanda Johnson was also in that class, a little girl then almost as
meek and timid as I. She was well prepared in mathematics, having studied under Miss
Edna Lockard at Stevenson, who would rap students with her ruler if they didn t remember
the "Tables and Combinations". Wanda soon got over her mortally petrified fear of going
to school.
But the recesses and rides to and from school had become both exhilarating and
difficult. I soon found that I was more ready for tennis than for girls. I had always found
it difficult to talk with any girl, but until now talking with girls never seemed worth doing
anyway. Here was a new ball game for which I was unprepared, and I was getting worse.
My mouth became so dry and my throat so tight that I was frantic. I never thought of
writing notes. This one-way exchange was headed nowhere! After a few months of pure
bliss and deepest frustration on my pan, never expressed by me to anyone, Emma Gene
logically turned elsewhere. I returned to tennis and, very happily, I was allowed to ride
my bicycle to school. Emma Gene and I had become good friends, and we still are.
My knowing the little dark-haired girl from The Green House, a young replica of
her mother, caring, friendly, and intelligent, made it difficult for all girls who were to
follow, until thirteen years later, in Cambridge, Massachusetts, where I met Katy, my
lifetime partner in tennis and in other pursuits.
The First Lesson From Tom Sawyer
When in the ninth grade, at the Kate Griffin Junior High School, I learned that Mr.
Tom Sawyer, the history teacher and tennis coach, wanted to start some new kids in tennis.
Mr. Sawyer was a tall, lanky person with many athletic interests. He must have played
on the tennis and basketball teams in college. I suspect that he had been teaching for only
a few years when my class entered junior high.
Through whatever selection process there was, the new tennis kids were George
Bounds, Winston Cameron, and I, all from the Marion Park Grammar School clan. No
-prior -knowledge or ability-in. tennis was required. Winston was motivated to be a great
player. His father had been a tennis champ some place, and there was a private court at
his home, a great place that I visited often in later school years and during occasional
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visits after leaving Meridian:
-
George s motivation- was~to -make the-tennisteamr-He was~a-
natural athlete. I simply wanted to be able to beat my friend and competitor, William
Blum, who, although smaller than I, was getting too good Also, I was already playing a
lot of tennis, though not well, and I needed a source of tennis balls. A can of balls cost
all of 50 cents, and we needed new balls at least every week. At that time I was
convinced that my parents were poor as church mice, although in fact they were only very
frugal, with priorities that did not include money for playing games. My meager summer
earnings could not carry me through the school year, and there was little left for tennis
balls and rackets.
During the first two semesters of Mr. Tom Sawyer s coaching we played not a
game of tennis. We never rallied by hitting balls to each other. We never even got on a
tennis court. He met us every afternoon in the Junior High gymnasium. He had worked
out the basic fundamentals of the tennis stroke. Facing perpendicular to the net,
represented by the gym wall, the racket arm goes back 35 degrees, with the racket an
extension of the straight arm and wrist. When hitting the ball, the arm itself swings only
a little, at the shoulder. At the same time the upper body rotates, the weight shifting from
the rear foot to the front foot. The arm and racket move through an exactly horizontal
plane, meeting the ball as it comes abreast, and continuing as follow through with the arm
and racket pointing toward the net and the upper body facing the net. The momentum
carries the body toward the net, ready to put away any return from the opponent. That is
all there is to it! If we added any further motion, we would receive scathing criticism
from Coach Sawyer.
To demonstrate, Coach Sawyer would bounce a ball on the floor from his left hand
and stroke it towards the gym wall with the open palm of his racket hand. After a week
we were allowed to do the same stroke with a racket Each of us did that hundreds of
times each day, several tens of thousand times during the year. At no time were we
allowed to hit the ball as it bounced back from the wall. It soon became like a formal
ballet movement, with Coach Sawyer clapping his hands for rhythm.
After a couple of months we advanced to learning running footwork, bouncing in
anticipation and leading with the foot that would be nearest the net, once the direction of
the next ball became apparent. Coach Sawyer stressed the importance of anticipating
where in the court the ball would land, running as fast as possible to the proper location to
set up the stroke, coming to a dead stop, and then performing the ballet motion of hitting
the ball. He would stand against the wall, protected by a chair, and toss balls to each of
us, trying to keep us guessing where the next ball would land. Of course, he was
exaggerating by having us run to position and plant our feet. He was trying to get us to
overcome the lazy habit of waiting too long to get in position.
I didn t realize it at the time, but Coach Sawyer really wanted to teach us to move
to the ball and hit it in a continuous fluid motion. When we finally reached High School
the football and basketball coach, Mr. Jim Baxter, became our tennis coach. He obviously
knew nothing about tennis, but evidently the pOiverfiiUligh School athletic. magnates did
not tolerate outside coaches from Junior High like Mr. Sawyer. Coach Baxter did try. He
would sit and watch us play, bewildered but patient. He finally suggested one day that I
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really did not have to ruirscr hard in between -shots. I was overdoing it/" Even after the
point was over, I would run like mad to retrieve the balls for the next point, probably a
hold over from chasing balls for Nell Sanders. He was a big help.
We were impatient kids, especially during the first semester under Coach Sawyer.
This kind of ballet exercise with no play was not what we had in mind. Tennis was
supposed to be fun! However, Coach Sawyer was ready for our frequent complaints. He
would kindly assure us that this was the hard but sure path to competitive tennis, and he
reviewed what each of us had told him about our goals. By that time I had learned to
refine my goals to something more noble than merely beating William and getting free
balls. After reminding us of our goals, Coach Sawyer asked if we still believed in them.
We were not like modem kids, who would tell him to go shove it! We were supposed to
be achievers. After our soulful confirmation that we still wanted to become great players,
he would then settle the argument by saying,
"WELL, FELLOWS, IF THE END DOESN T JUSTIFY THE MEANS, WHAT IN
THE HELL DOES?"
This is the first lesson of life from Coach Sawyer.
I swallowed it all, hook, line, and sinker. I took Coach Sawyer s lesson literally
and seriously as a noble goal and followed it astutely for some time. I later learned that
Coach Sawyer had adopted a favorite W. C. Fields expression. Probably Coach Sawyer
did not say "hell", but something more suitable. Unfortunately, I was too young, too easily
awed by authority, to perceive the humor and irony of W. C. Field s expression. That
was the first of two important lessons from Coach Sawyer s tennis clinic, lessons that went
beyond the mechanics of tennis itself. It took time to unlearn it. This is not a criticism
of Coach Sawyer. Teachers and coaches have to say things to relieve tension and lighten
the atmosphere. Undoubtedly he did not realize what a literal and believing person I was.
I have never forgotten the expression. It sometimes has led to trouble when I have
used it to relieve tension in our intense seminar arguments at M.I.T. and Berkeley.
Physics From Tom Sawyer: The Second Lesson
Coach Sawyer did not restrict us from playing on weekends. Naturally, with all
that practice, we became pretty good. During the next few years Coach Sawyer would
take us to the clay courts at Highland Park, that were reserved for the tennis team every
weekday afternoon during the school year. He would toss balls to each of us, which we
would stroke across the net, still not rallying or playing. During rainy weather, or when
we became careless and sloppy, it was back to the gym.
We were all surprised at the results. Being an extension of the arm and the upper
body, the rackeL-.was a_jesilient backboard. A .ball, hit- harder by the opponent .would
automatically be returned with more pace. It was easier to play against well-trained
opponents who hit hard, low ground strokes. The rhythm was steady and perfect.
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However, whenever rfaced~a player -who was crafty and hit spinning -bails; sofr balls- and-
bloopers, I had much trouble. The timing was all upset Thus, I was still having trouble
keeping ahead of my friend and competitor, William Blum, who still played like we used
to play, with more guile than skill. He was such a good friend, though, that he let me
convince him that he should learn Coach Sawyer s technique, which I set out to teach him.
I was not the teacher that Coach Sawyer was. I really did not understand the mechanics
of the stroke that well. After a few attempts at teaching William, I had suitably ruined his
game, so one of my goals was achieved after all.
As the effectiveness of Coach Sawyer s stroke of minimum motion became
apparent, I became most intrigued with the mechanics of arm articulation that he had
worked out. How could something so simple and effective emerge from what otherwise
seemed to be a horribly complicated human skeleton, with so little rhyme or reason? Mr.
Sawyer asked us to think of ourselves as simple stick skeletons, with the racket arm
behaving as a single stick. He demonstrated with a toy wooden skeleton that he made.
What had originally been a rather boring daily routine of stroking, stroking, stroking
became more interesting as I secretly tried variations from Coach Sawyer s stroke. They
were interesting to hit, but none gave the resilient pop of the ball off the sweet spot of the
racket that could be achieved with Coach Sawyer s stroke. While stroking there was
plenty of time to day dream and imagine. I couldn t believe that it could be so simple as
a bunch of bones working together like levers. Obviously, there had to be some cables
operating on those levers, which, of course, were the muscles and tendons. Coach
Sawyer s stroke was really controlled and powered by the long diagonal back muscle
anchored to the shoulder.
For a while I became interested in structural anatomy, the way that careers in
medicine sometimes begin. However, the grammar-school rights had convinced me that
medicine was not my cup of tea. I later learned that the fundamental mechanics that
Coach Sawyer was using are the foundation of physics. It may have been our high school
physics teacher, Miss Victoria Wiss, who consolidated my interest in physics, but it was
actually Coach Sawyer who got it started.
Even though Coach Sawyer may not have consciously taught it, the beauty of
mechanics and physics was the second of Coach Sawyer s unique lessons that I remember.
Two others derived from a special basketball team that Coach Sawyer organized, the
subject of a later chronicle.
Russell Grossnickle
At about that time we began to follow tennis players of our age in other towns,
expecting that we might some day meet them in tournaments. One boy, from Columbus,
Mississippi, named Russell Grossnickle, was already famous. I saw him play once in a
.tournament in Jackson, Mississippi. He was an .excellent playjer4_jdth_-flat, ground strokes,
just like those taught by Coach Sawyer. Russell s father was a professor at the Mississippi
State College for Women in Columbus. He coached two daughters as well as Russell,
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requiring them to have tennis workouts twice -each -day: The older-daughter -was already
ranked within the top ten women players nationally. The other daughter, Russell s twin
sister, was also said to be a good player. We never saw either of the girls play, because
there were no tennis teams for girls and no tournaments in the high-school circuit
I was specially intimidated by seeing Russell bring three rackets, all new looking,
together with several unopened cans of balls. An ace of spades was stencilled on the
strings of each racket. He was one of the first to wear the new white tennis shorts.
When warming up he wore a soft white tennis sweater knotted around his neck, even in 90
degree heat.
Grossnickle s antics during a match would shame even John McEnroe. When his
opponent seemed to have his game under control, Grossnickle would interrupt the play and
sit on the court to remove his shoes and adjust his socks, anything to interrupt the rhythm
and concentration. He liked to wave his arms just as his opponent was serving. In one
match, against Jackson s best player, a boy named Bumham, Grossnickle departed from his
normal game and returned one moon ball after another. This was our first introduction to
the insidious gamesmanship of tennis, something that Coach Sawyer never bothered with,
to his credit. Russell had obviously been coached well in the tactics of gamesmanship.
He was even more skilled at psychology than in the mechanics of hitting tennis balls. I
expect that his father must have been a professor of psychology, specializing in the
psychology of abnormal behavior.
As Winston, George, and I emerged and finally became the MHS team in regional
and state tournaments, I was always anxious about having to play Grossnickle. Strangely,
we never met nor played, nor did he play Winston or George. Our one contact with
Grossnickle was at that boys tournament in Jackson, for young players who were on the
verge of emerging into high-school tennis. Jim Stuckenschneider, Emma Gene s husband,
knew Russell Grossnickle at Columbus High School. He reports that Grossnickle s
seeming invincibility in tennis began to crumble in high school. It is incredible that
Grossnickle could have sunk so quickly, because he was a really outstanding player in the
state boys tournament.
Some readers of earlier versions of these tennis chronicles have urged that the
principal players of our high- school team should meet again for a fiftieth-anniversary
challenge match. It would be good to see Winston Cameron and George Bounds play
together again; they were the finest young doubles team that I have seen. I had planned to
invite Russell Grossnickle as my partner. He would be ideal. All of us will have lost
most of our athletic skill and timing, so gamesmanship and psychology are likely to decide
the match. Russell s superb mastery of tennis would again be recognized!
Sadly, I have recently learned that Russell was shot down in World War n.
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The Western Grip
An entirely different approach to the backhand was drilled into me when I was
invited to join the doubles game of Mr. Ben Cameron, Winston s father. The others were
Dr. H. M. Ivy and Mr. Waldo McQuaig. We played on the Cameron s court. Mr.
Cameron had once played top competitive tennis. He knew his game. Although many
know of him as Judge Cameron, because he later became a judge in the Federal District
Court, I knew him as Mr. Cameron and think of him fondly in that way. I liked to play
on the team opposing Mr. Cameron s doubles team, because he hit the ball low and fast,
ideal for returning by Coach Sawyer s flat ground strokes.
However, there were dire consequences! The first time that a ball came to Mr.
Cameron s backhand side, he zipped it back harder than any forehand I had ever seen.
The next time it happened I observed that he simply rotated his wrist and racket through
180 degrees for what would normally be a backhand shot. The palm of his racket hand
was then facing the net, in the same way as in a normal forehand shot He used the same
strong arm muscles to support the stroke as in the normal forehand stroke. As a result, he
really didn t have a backhand. He stroke was a little contorted when the ball bounced low
to him, but he could demolish a high-bouncing ball to his backhand. Some good
contemporary players, such as Boris Becker, use a partly rotated grip to power a high-
backhand return, but I have not seen another player use the completely rotated racket as
did Mr. Cameron.
It soon became a matter of survival. Mr. McQuaig was always my doubles partner.
He had only the wimpiest of serves. When McQuaig s serve came to Mr. Cameron s
backhand side, landing in the middle of the service court only a few feet from my position
at the net, it was easy for Mr. Cameron to drill his powerful shot right at my belly button.
To keep from getting plastered, I learned to keep my racket in front of me at all times,
making it easy for Mr. Cameron to pass me down the alley.
I had never heard of such a shot. I thought for a moment of questioning its
legality, until I remembered that Mr. Cameron was a successful trial lawyer and would
undoubtedly overwhelm me with legal precedent as he had with tennis balls. I learned
later from Winston that Mr. Cameron s technique is called the Western grip, popular with
some players during the 1920 s and early 30 s. Mr. Cameron himself came to my rescue,
gently suggesting that nothing in the rules required me to play at the net while my partner
was serving. I did try playing from the backcourt while Mr. McQuaig served, and we won
a few more games. I still preferred playing at net, however, because that is the way I had
been taught and that is the way we saw the professionals do it.
Playing at net was fun
when the service went to Dr. Ivy, because his returns were easy to put away, sometimes at
Mr. Cameron s feet It would have been impolite to Dr. Ivy to play net when serving to
him and to retreat to the back court when serving to Mr. Cameron.
Doubles at the Cameron s, with those same players, became a way of life, renewed
during the war years and M.I.T. years when I would come home_fora -short visit with my
parents. Always at the end of the match would be Mrs. Cameron with a pitcher of
lemonade and cookies. She was called Polly by Mr. Cameron and Winston. She was a
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great lady, and still is. Some of my -best and -warmest memories of-Meridian are
concerned with the mothers of my friends.
-
The Highland Park Courts
Coach Sawyer achieved well-deserved fame and popularity in Meridian as he
became more identified with the tennis team. I never knew how or why it
happened, but
Mayor Clint Vinson consulted Coach Sawyer about the use of the city tennis facilities at
Highland Park. Coach Sawyer had arranged with Mayor Vinson for the tennis team to
have free use of the two Highland Park courts, which were the only good courts in the
city.
V. C. Rhodes had been in charge of the two clay courts. His job was to wet, roll,
and line them, and he could charge people for playing on them and keep the fees. There
was a tennis caretaker s house there, where V. C. strung tennis rackets. V. C. was a good
tennis player, but for some reason he was not on our tennis team. He was a year older
and may have been on earlier teams. V. C. s mentor was a nice elderly gentlemen named
Mr. S. N. Guy, who had an attractive blonde daughter named Frances, who played tennis
with her father. She had fine tennis strokes, but she never played hard or perspired.
At the end of the ninth grade Coach Sawyer became concerned about what I told
him of the dire poverty of my family; at least it was my view at the time, because I never
had enough money for essentials like tennis. Even with a source of free balls from Coach
Sawyer during the school year, I had much trouble buying tennis rackets and tennis shoes.
My father pointed out that a tennis racket had little to do with a good education and
getting a job. In fact, it was bound to lead to useless diversions and trouble.
Coach Sawyer arranged with Mayor Vinson for me to take over as manager of the
Highland Park courts. It may have been unfair to V. C. Rhodes. Actually, V. C. s
interests had already turning elsewhere, to Jeanette Freemen, who had become a lovely,
lissome brunette. He sold me his racket-stringing equipment at a bargain price, which I
soon paid from the new high court fees that I charged.
I had suddenly become wealthy! During the first summer I kept most of my
earnings and ended the season with $57.00. With that I bought two new nets for the next
season, repainted the tennis shack, and began the next season with a flourish. I saw V. C.
little during that first summer. I think that he and Mr. Guy were a little miffed when I
charged them to play. I never saw V. C. after that
I later realized that Coach Sawyer, in arranging for me to manage the courts, had
expected that I would practice and play a lot and thereby strengthen the team that would
some day represent the High School. That is exactly what I wanted, but my good
intentions to play and practice were diverted by my growing interest in tending and
manicuring the courts. The courts were of red clay, the kind that are still used in the
French Open. Every day I leveled the clay with a long wooden scraper, like a giant rake.
Then I watered the clay carefully, enough for the clay particles to soften and coalesce.
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When the clay was just the "right -softness,-! compressed and smoothed the clay with -a
-
large metal roller weighted with water. The result was a beautiful dark red surface, better
than even the new composition courts that I had seen at expensive clubs in other cities. A
smooth-soled tennis shoe can slide a little on clay. Sliding smoothes the transition from
running to stroking.
In some clay courts the lines that define the court are made either with white tape
fastened to the clay or with a liquid mixture of water and slaked lime, laid down from a
wheeled lining machine. Tape is hard to see on clay. I did have a wet-line machine, but
I preferred to lay a line with dry white lime powder, using a wheeled machine. It made
the whitest of all lines, in striking contrast to the dark red clay. Of course, the dry-powder
line was quickly ruined by trampling feet, so it had to be renewed frequently. When I
learned to do the courts this way, with perfectly straight lines guided by strings strung
tightly across the courts, I felt that I had created a work of art. It was as fulfilling as that
great course in Palmer Penmanship taught by Miss Brewster in the seventh grade.
The courts were so pretty that I could hardly bear to play on them. In fact, I
preferred that others not play on them and sometimes improvised excuses to avoid
accepting reservations to use the courts. After every few sets, I would intercede to again
wet, roll, and line the courts. Thus, the would-be artist overcame the budding young tennis
star, a blow to my progress as a tennis player and to my summer income.
In those days serious male tennis players always wore long pants. The really good
players wore white, and the champions and professionals wore white flannel trousers.
William Blum s father, who was co-owner of the Liberty Shop, a high-class boutique, was
the buyer and spent much time going to exotic places like New York city. I was
particularly proud when he played on my courts. His white flannels added an elegant
touch that was not unlike the tennis stadium at Wimbledon, except for clay courts instead
of grass.
Except for those few players who really knew tennis and complained about my
eccentric requirements to beautify the courts, most players began to identify me as the
"Highland Park Pro". I was even paid by some well-meaning parents to give lessons to
their children. I received tips for providing such nice courts. I had never even heard of
tipping. The first tip was included in the handful of money given to me as the customer
left the courts. I discovered it later and ran after him to return his overpayment. I
couldn t believe that people actually paid more than something really cost, but at his kind
insistence I kept the extra payment and soon became accustomed to this great practice of
tipping, great to the one on the receiving end.
Eighty-Pound Gut
Even some of the seasoned players foolishly assumed that with such a professional
approach to playing and court management, I must be an old hand at stringins rackets. I
advertised stringing at $6 for rayon strings and up to $15 for the best sheep gut. My first
stringing job was on a brand new T. A. Davis frame, made in Australia, that some wealthy
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-person had purchased iir New-Orleans. I had -never before seen such an expensive frame."
My knowledge of racket stringing was limited to the questions asked at the sporting goods
store in Meridian, where I had once had a racket strung. There they asked if we wanted it
strung to 60, 65, or 70 pounds, meaning the tensile force on each string as it is anchored
in the racket frame. Coach Sawyer had instructed me to have my racket strung at 60
pounds.
My first customer, with his new T. A. Davis frame, obviously had more money
than sense. When I asked him how tightly he wanted his racket strung, he asked how
tight could I make it. I didn t have the foggiest notion of what would limit the string
tension, and I knew that I could pull 70 pounds if I had to. I then examined the
tensioning device that I had bought from V. C. Rhodes. It was calibrated at various forces,
from 55 through 80 pounds, so I told the customer that I could go to 80 pounds. I bought
the very best gut strings available, which turned out to be rated to 80 pounds. Without
any practice on a cheap frame, and having never strong a racket, I proceeded to load that
beautiful T. A. Davis frame with the tightest strings ever seen in Meridian.
As I later learned, there is a string-tension limit set by the frame, as well as by the
strings. The T. A. Davis was a light frame, designed for touch players. Fortunately, it
was one of the new laminated frames, so instead of simply buckling under the enormous
compressive force from the strings, it merely distorted. Unfortunately, a tennis racket is
expected to be symmetrical, with an oval-shaped head. To my horror, the T. A. Davis had
taken on a skewed ovate shape, not unlike an egg that is sitting on its pointed end but
tilted away from the vertical. Otherwise, the 80-pound gut strings were as tight and hard
as a board!
Faced with the inevitable exposure of my inexperience in racket stringing, to be
likely followed by my downfall as a tennis pro, I
developed a remedy probably never
intended for a well-made tennis racket. All tennis rackets in those days were of wood, so
each racket was kept in a wooden press when not in use, to keep it from warping. I put
the now ovate T. A. Davis in one of those presses and inserted wedges between the press
comers and the racket frame to force it back into a symmetrical oval shape. Then I filled
my coffee pot with water, turned up the heat, and steamed the frame, carefully avoiding
moistening the gut strings. I was delighted to find the next day that the racket retained the
proper elliptical shape when removed from the press. I proudly turned it over to the
customer, who exclaimed about the beautiful tight stringing and the flashy symbol stenciled
on the sweet spot, the center portion of the strings. Since the time that I had seen Harold
Grossnickle s terrific game and gamesmanship, I knew that badges like tennis clothes,
rackets, and racket stencils could be important to the compleat player. It was simple to
make a cardboard template that would cover all of the strings except for a cut-out shape in
the center. I made many exotic cut outs! For this customer, it was the ace of spades,
stenciled with black lacquer.
The customer gave me a big tip.
I advised him to keep his racket in a press
.whenever possible. A week later he returned,, much .chagrined. His racket-had warped
into a skewed ovate shape, though not as pronounced as when it was first strung. He
apologized for such shabby treatment of my handiwork and begged me to either restring it
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or to do another newT. A. Davis frame for him. Meanwhile, I had consulted Coach
Sawyer about string tension. He explained that 80 pounds is ridiculous for all but a few
professionals. At 80 pounds the strings are so tight that the ball immediately rebounds
from the strings, although it does indeed rebound rather rapidly. What is needed is a
compromise, usually at about 60 pounds, so that the ball stays in contact with the strings
long enough for the player to exercise more control or to impart top spin or underspin. I
gently suggested to my customer that he might prefer a more conventional string tension,
and I offered to restring his T. A. Davis, to see if it would stabilize the frame. By then,
he felt so guilty that he was willing to trust my judgment on anything. I then proceeded
to remove the new gut strings from the T. A. Davis frame, dissolved off the ace-of-spades
stencil, forced the frame back to its original oval shape, let it sit for a week, and then
restrung it with the same gut at 60 pounds, followed by a new stencil. It was a great
success!
Playing the Short Court
Another of my regular customers for reserved courts was a man who always played
with the same opponent, always nearly won, but never quite succeeded. It was the lazy
habit of most of these players never to change courts during a match, or, at most, to
change only after each set. This man, whose name I conveniently forget, noticed my love
for dry white lines and the need to rejuvenate them frequently. He asked me to put down
a special back line for him on the end of the court that he always took, about a foot closer
to the net that the regulation line. His idea was that his opponent would not notice it, and
with this advantage he would finally win. He promised me that it was only a joke, and
that after the match he would inform his opponent of the joke and that I could then restore
the line to regulation. I had once used such a technique in ping pong with Billy
Ackerman, who usually beat me, moving the net away from center so that one of us would
be handicapped, but only by agreement of both parties.
It was easy to prepare the court as requested. My client did indeed win the set.
This time the opponent asked to change courts for the second set, because the sun was in
his eyes. I noticed that nothing was said about the short back line, and the opponent did
not notice it. This time, my client, now on the side with the regulation lines, with his
opponent on the short court, won the second set. He was overjoyed. As they left, I asked
the losing opponent how he liked playing the short court. He was incredulous that it had
happened. Apparently this had been a money match and had already been paid off. My
client argued that his second-set victory in the disadvantaged court more than made up for
his rigged victory in the first set. I left them to argue, and I was happy not to have that
client again.
USLTA and the Tennis Pro
I was still interested in actually playing tennis. With all of this tennis
I
began to worry about my eligibility to play in the high-school tournaments. Also, it was
such a wonderful job that I felt guilty about making money out of it. I felt that I should
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be paying Mayor Vinson for the privilege of caring for those beautiful courts: -This
unhealthy attitude towards working for a living prevailed in almost every job I have ever
had. Fortunately, I have learned not to express it so clearly to my employers, lest they
take me up on my offer to pay tuition for working for them. However, this was my first
experience with loving ones work, and I suggested to Mr. Sawyer that I become officially
an amateur and let everyone play free.
Coach Sawyer assured me that it was not as if I were making a living out of
tennis, and he was certainly right. However, during those days tennis was the most
professionally restricted of amateur sports. The U. S. Lawn Tennis Association governed
every player s habits and life. To qualify for a USLTA-sanctioned tournament a player
could not represent any equipment manufacturer, nor could he receive income from the
sport. Even receiving donations to pay for travel expenses to tournaments was officially
forbidden. Although the USLTA did not officially sanction the multitude of tournaments
between high schools, the statewide tennis association had the policy that all high-school
tournaments must meet the USLTA qualifications. Fortunately, no one raised the question
of my eligibility. Also, I easily managed not to get rich from tennis in Meridian.
Asphalt Courts
During the next two summers, until leaving for Georgia Tech, I
managed the new
asphalt courts at the new High School. They were near my house and were much easier
than clay to keep in condition. However, I never identified with those courts and with that
environment as I had in previous years at Highland Park. Perhaps by then I had begun to
realize that making about $50 for the summer was not the pathway to fortune that I had
earlier thought. The compelling problem was that the asphalt courts were dull, dreary,
black, with permanently painted lines, and I could do nothing about it. Even the nets were
cheap affairs made of steel Cyclone fencing. Net-cord shots, resulting from a ball hitting
the top of the net and going over, occurred more frequently with the wire nets. Those nets
must have been designed by a mechanical engineer from Harvard or Stanford! They were
useless for good tennis. The steel is so resilient that it deforms and rebounds from the
ball impact and propels the ball up and over into the next court. Substituting the cotton
nets that I had bought for the Highland-Park courts solved the problem and restored fair
tennis.
The Southern Regional Tournament
Tennis is an example of the many "doing"
activities that I so much enjoyed. I
became intensely absorbed in each, although not in all at the same time. Once I had
achieved, along with George and Winston, status as one of the central three for the High
School team, I began to dream of eventually becoming good enough to be a playing
professional. A traveling team of professionals played an exhibition match in the High
School gymnasium, including Fred Perry and Ellsworth Vines,, the great British champions.
I envied them greatly; it looked like a fine life.
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The Tennis Team
Not only was my idea of becoming a professional unrealistic, it shows how poorly
coordinated and conflicting were my various emerging goals. Having become convinced,
however incorrectly, that my family was living in poverty, I was determined to follow a
career that would lead to steady income, enough to buy tennis rackets, golf clubs, and
tennis balls. In those days, long before the era of lucrative prize money for winning
tournaments, tennis professionals barely existed financially, only by giving lessons or being
supported by some frustrated socialite. I knew I would never qualify for the latter. But,
the real awakening came from emergence into the tennis world outside of the Mississippi
high-school tournaments.
In the summer of 1939 Coach Sawyer suggested that Winston, George, and I enter
the annual Southern Junior Tennis Tournament, that was to be held in Memphis,
Tennessee. Coach Sawyer helped scrape up funds for the trip, with promises that we
would bring glory to Meridian and to our benefactors. Official sponsors were forbidden in
those days by the U.S. Lawn Tennis Association. I may even have hitchhiked to the
Southwestern University at Memphis, where the tournament was held. That it should be
called "Southwestern" reflects the then provincial attitude that nothing of importance exists
west of the Mississippi River. In our more enlightened age, after Presidents Nixon and
Reagan, its name has been properly changed to Rhodes University.
After registering and certifying that I had brought at least one unopened can of new
balls, I was overwhelmed by the dozens of tennis courts, each with the new green
composition surface that I had only read about but never played on.
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The next morning the bulletin board carried a clipping from the Memphis paper,
The Commercial Appeal, of news about the tournament, including the first-round draws.
There were hundreds of entries, from states all over the country, even though it was billed
as a "Southern" tournament. With so many players, it was not possible to mention many
by name. To my horror, the headline of that clipping announced, "McGehee Meets Pigford
in First Round". It was headline news because Dick McGehee, from Miami Beach,
Florida, had won the tournament the previous year. Usually the defending champion and
top-seeded player is given a bye in the first round, but in this tournament there were no
byes. That first match was scheduled for 10:00 am. that day.
To reduce expenses the tournament required that each player bring to his match an
unopened can of new balls. One is opened for the match, and the winner of that match
was to keep both the used balls and the unopened can. I was already in awe of
McGehee s reputation as a devastating single player. After settling down, being only a
little rattled by the spectators in the stands on the center court, where we were the featured
match of the day, I applied everything I had learned from Coach Sawyer, but to no avail.
I may have won two or three points during the match, but never a game. He won at love,
6-0, 6-0. The match was so short-lived that McGehee ended up with not only the
unopened can but an opened can of three hardly used balls. Maybe that is why he played
so well, to finish the match quickly and be ahead one can of balls.
I was also intimidated at the Memphis tournament when I found that most of the
players were wearing shorts, which were just coming into vogue. I stood out like a sore
thumb, in my white cotton pants. Today a kid would simply take a pair of scissors to
them, relishing the distinction of fringed cutoffs. In those days no one would consider
such a slovenly practice.
On the next morning the Commercial Appeal evidently felt that it must report the
results of the match headlined the previous day. It was most kind. It observed that Dick
McGehee was off to a good start, and that he was likely to be well primed for later
matches, having been so vigorously pursued by Pigford in his first match. What they
meant was that I ran like mad after every ball hit by McGehee, and even managed to
chase down a few. That was before the days of Coach Baxter, who frowned on wasting
such energy when there was little chance of winning points. The Commercial Appeal also
kindly commented on my classic flat stroke, obviously representing much tutelage and
practice, and suggested that I might consider learning a proper serve. The reporter also
commented on my gentlemanly behavior.
I did indeed enjoy seeing Dick McGehee make such beautiful shots. I congratulated
him on every winner. In fact, almost every ball he hit was a winner. He might have hit
a rare double fault, but I remember none. In our senior year, Coach Baxter, the High
School football and basketball coach, became the High School tennis coach. Mr. Sawyer
had not joined the faculty at the new High School but had elected to remain at Junior
High. Coach Baxter instructed me to drop that gentlemanly approach of forever
congratulating my opponent and to become viciously focused towards winning. He was the
psychologist that I needed! It jv.as_^.-new idea to me,~and it greatly. increased my. pleasure
in tennis. I still congratulated the many successful opponents at the end of matches, but
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only then, and I even won a few matches. Coach Baxter knew nothing about tennis, but
he knew about competition.
(jUS-TSAY/ FAULT. /) YOU DON T HAVE TO SAY,
*
LOUSY FIRST SERVE "
The Gentlemanly Player
(drawing by Charles Schultz)
Having tested my tennis prowess against the outside world, it became evident that
the pathway to become a successful professional, one who wins matches, would be more
tortuous than I had expected. Also, I had begun to realize that in those days even the real
live tennis professionals had to scratch for income. There were enough other fun activities
to use in shaping a career.
Coach Sawyer s Basketball Team
Two other important lessons in life came from the basketball team that Coach
Sawyer organized in 1938. That was the first year that the new High School was open.
Mr. Sawyer remained on the Junior High teaching staff, so he organized a new basketball
team that took over the gymnasium that had previously been used by the High School.
Because Coach Sawyer was no longer the High School tennis coach, there was no indoor
tennis instruction during that winter.
During the late summer of that year I was hanging out at the YMCA in Meridian.
I liked to go there to swim and shoot basketball. Also, my brother had just gone north to
the University of Illinois and .wanted me to keep an eye on his girLfriend, -Marian .
Pinkston, who had graduated from The Mississippi State College for Women and had taken
a job at the YMCA. The YMCA director was heard to be pursuing her. The YMCA
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basketball court was a little runt of a court, shorter than regulation size. The baskets were
mounted directly on the end walls of the court, so there was no room for a player to run
under the basket after making a driving lay-up shot. I had been practicing there for years
and had learned that one can drive towards the basket by running slightly up the wall,
depositing the ball in the basket when he reaches the top of his run up the wall. It wasn t
too difficult with good sneakers.
Coach Sawyer frequently came to the YMCA. He saw me practicing the wall-
climbing lay-up, and he saw how effective it was against the other kids who were playing
there. I never had been a really good basketball player, but Coach Sawyer invited me to
join his new team that would play in the Junior High gymnasium. That gym was also
shorter than regulation length, and the baskets and backboards were mounted directly on
the opposing walls. It was a new team of boys who had never played together. I was the
only one who had practiced the wall-climbing lay-up, so Coach Sawyer built his offense
around that play. Evidently there was no rule against running up a wall to reach the
basket, because basketball courts were not supposed to have baskets mounted on walls.
I was excited at the opportunity to play on a real team. Our next-door neighbor,
Mr. Carl Myer, William Blum s uncle, was always interested in helping my pursuits, and
he helped on this one. He subscribed to outdoor magazines that had stories about fishing,
boating, and sailing, magazines that I avidly read in my tree house while dreaming of
future activities. The magazines frequently advertised boating shoes called Topsiders,
sneakers with little suction cups on the soles to prevent slipping on a wet boat deck. Mr.
Myer ordered a pair for me. They were perfect for basketball at the Junior High gym.
With those shoes I was able to run up the wall even closer to the basket, although never
high enough for a slam dunk. Some of the other boys on the team also ordered some
deck shoes.
After weeks of intensive practice, for which Coach Sawyer was famous in both
tennis and basketball, our team began a season of scheduled matches against teams from
small schools in the surrounding countryside. Some of those schools had only outside
courts, others had courts in regulation gyms or in barns, but all of them had the baskets
and backboards mounted on posts or suspended from the ceiling, so that a player could
make the conventional driving lay-up, running under the basket to stop after sinking the
basket. None of the other schools was prepared for our gymnasium. The forwards of our
opposing team quickly learned, from getting plastered against the wall under the basket,
that they had to abandon their short-court game. They were overwhelmed by our technique
of running up the wall, but were unable to copy it
effectively because it took lots of
practice.
We never lost a game on our home court, in our non-regulation short gym. This
was the greatest team success that I had yet experienced. The lesson, the third one of
strategy and principle that I learned from Coach Sawyer, was:
PRESS THE HOME COURT ADVANTAGE!
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Unfortunately, when we played these schools on their own courts, with properly
hung baskets, we were not prepared for the normal running lay-ups. We had no place to
practice them. We never won a game. Reflecting on this experience, I realized that I had
learned the fourth lesson of life from Mr. Sawyer.
BEWARE OF THE OTHER FELLOW S HOME COURT ADVANTAGE!
In fact, one of the schools had already learned the first of these two lessons. Their
basketball court was in a converted barn, with overhead beams that had once supported a
hay loft. If a player attempted a shot anywhere behind the line where penalty shots are
made, the ball could bounce off a beam and into the hands of the opposing team. Here
the play was entirely short-court basketball for us visitors, but some boys on the host team
had marked on the floor positions from which they could thread a back-court shot high
over the beams to the basket.
Because the small country schools were overjoyed at the chance of playing
basketball in the big city of Meridian, most of the games were at our short gym. We had
a season of smashing wins. The most satisfying was against another new team in
Meridian. The new Junior College had just opened. It had a new basketball team that
practiced in the gym at the new high school. Several of its players had been on the High
School team the previous year. We beat them on our home court.
Also, I kept my eye on the young lady at the YMCA. She became my sister-in-
law the next summer. Andrew Gainey, the boy from The Green House, had developed a
golden voice. At the wedding he sang "Oh, Promise Me." He was also great on the
baritone hom and once played a solo transcribed for baritone, "The Carnival of Venice", in
a Sunday afternoon band concert at the Band Pavilion in Highland Park. There was no
one in Meridian to give lessons on playing the baritone horn. How Andrew became so
accomplished on the baritone is a mystery.
The next year, flushed with success in basketball under Coach Sawyer, I went out
for the High School basketball team, coached by Mr. Jim Baxter. It was an outstanding
team, starring my old pal, Ed Henson, who, in earlier years at The Green House, had used
my lip as a stepping stone to athletic success. Unfortunately for me, the new gymnasium
had a regulation court, with no end walls to climb for lay-ups. I enjoyed watching Ed
from the bench, but that is all that I did. I soon realized that playing in the band at the
basketball games was more exciting.
Coach Sawyer at Mississippi State College
Tom Sawyer would continue developing young tennis players in Meridian through
the years of World War U and thereafter. His well-deserved reputation as a superlative
coach was soon recognized, and he became Professor of Political Science and tennis coach
at the Mississippi State University (MSU) in 1949. Almost immediately MSU became a
dominant force in tennis in the" Southeastern Conference. For the next twenty years Coach-
Sawyer never had a losing season. His dual meet record with other schools was 216-36.
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His MSU teams won seventeen Mississippi Intercollegiate titles, either five or six
Southeastern Conference Championships, and they were Conference runner-ups in three
other years. In recognition of this superlative record, Tom Sawyer was inducted into the
MSU Sports Hall of Fame in 1975.
It is well-deserved recognition of a distinguished career in coaching tennis. I add
my own testimony to Coach Sawyer s patience and skill in teaching the wonderful games
of tennis and basketball to an awkward little kid, and especially to inspiration that I
received from Coach Sawyer in the field of mechanics and physics.
Coach Sawyer al Mississippi State University
Winter Sports in Meridian
The tepid heat and humidity of Mississippi was good for our tennis. Playing
actively in those conditions required more than usual concentration, and mental
concentration is the key to competitive tennis. However, winters were sometime different
When frigid winds from the North dipped into Mississippi, we could experience bitter cold.
Snow was rare, but Winston Cameron has researched the historic cold weather experienced
in January of our last year in high school. Based on his wartime studies in meteorology at
UCLA and his usual legal thoroughness in research, Winston reports that a freeze arrived
on January 22, 1940 and remained until the afternoon of January 28. A low of 2
Fahrenheit was reached on January 27. Five and a half inches of snow fell on January 23.
Of course, there was no equipment for snow removal. The absence of traffic let the snow
stay on the streets for several days, and on the ground until February 1.
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We had occasionally seen dustings of snow in previous years, but never enough for
snowballing and real snow men. For this rare event, school was discontinued, so we
concentrated on winter sports. With Winston s brother, Ben, we constructed a sled with
wooden runners, capable of holding as many as five people. There were no hills for
sledding, but the big sled was to be towed by a big black Buick Roadmaster, supplied by
Edgar Morrison s family. The towline was half-inch Manilla rope, about sixteen feet long.
By letting air from the tires, the big Buick was able to traverse along every road in
Lauderdale County. Going straight was boring. Edgar swerved the big Buick, slinging the
sled from side to side, sometimes from ditch to ditch. The most thrilling moments were
when the Buick had to slow down or stop. Our sled was large and heavy, and we had not
thought of adding brakes. The person in the front of the sled was responsible for keeping
us from plowing into and under the Buick, but he was seldom successful.
No one required us to have crash helmets, seat belts, and crash equipment, or to file
an Environmental Impact Statement, all now necessities of modern life. Probably our
parents did not really know what we were doing. That was the best winter that I
remember in Meridian.
Tennis at Georgia Tech
Going to Georgia Tech from Meridian High School was a lucky accident, similar to
most of the important events in my life. It was the result of a misperception by my
father. My brother had studied chemical engineering at Mississippi State College and then
went to University of Illinois for graduate study. But, these were the depression years.
My father concluded, incorrectly, that education at Mississippi State had not been good
enough for my brother to get a job, so that he had to study further to make up
deficiencies. That was to be avoided by sending me to Georgia Tech. It was not an easy
decision, because it cost a lot to travel to Atlanta, Georgia, and out-of-state tuition was
expensive. I didn t
complain.
There have many good players who were taught the same strokes that we learned
from Coach Sawyer, including the number one player on our team at Georgia Tech, a boy
named Nelson Abel from Monroe, Louisiana. I was proud to see him demolish his
counterpart during a match with Princeton. The Princeton team was exotic. They had
beautiful clothes and a coach, Frank Parker, who was a famous professional, a winner of
the U.S. Open in singles or doubles, and playboy, a plaything of a wealthy New York
socialite. Ln contrast, our Georgia Tech coach was a dumpy mathematics professor. I
never saw him with a tennis racket. He must have volunteered as coach to earn credits
toward tenure.
After the freshman year and a summer lifeguarding at Meridian s Highland Park
pool, tennis came to a halt for me, except for occasional visits to Meridian, to serve as a
target for Mr. Cameron s blistering shots from his backhand court Tennis was no longer a
number one priority. For the first time, I found learning things from textbooks and
laboratories to be the~most fnn-of all. For merconcentrated study was impossible without
exercise, so I turned to competitive swimming, a rigorous year-round activity that required
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only one hour each day. The few years of conditioning from swimming greatly improved
my tennis, when it resumed years later.
The Student (charcoal by Mary Pigford Smyscr)
To M.LT.
I was so enthralled with the academic program at Georgia Tech that I wanted never
to graduate. Colleges protect themselves against such dilettantes by blocking registration
when academic requirements are fullfilled. I was amazed to find that some of the famous
northern schools would actually pay my tuition and living expenses to enroll there for
graduate study. The best deal was at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, in
Cambridge, Massachusetts, where I timidly entered in October 1943.
I was adopted by Rowland Bevans, a classmate in chemical engineering. He had
already been a graduate student for a year or two before I arrived in 1943. He taught me
to ski, in New Hampshire and Vermont, and we had many fine weekend trips on the snow
trains, staying overnight in ski lodges or farmhouses and eating apple pie for breakfast.
The Boston winter was terrible for tennis, so Bevans began teaching me to play squash, an
indoor game similar to handball but played with a long, slender racket. Learning squash
took a few years and is discussed later. We had many fine games of chess together.
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Learning to Speak
M.I.T. was even more thrilling and fun than Georgia Tech, something I never
thought possible. I was deferred from military service because I taught chemical
engineering to Army students at M.I.T. In the mornings and evenings I served these same
students chow in return for free meals. Teaching an M.I.T. course was more than I had
ever hoped for. Unfortunately, it nearly ground to a halt after the second class. The
course that I taught was a laboratory course on chemical engineering operations, including
distillation, as in separating alcohol from water, and ion exchange, as in water softeners
used to remove dissolved salts from household water. My job was to give an introductory
lecture for each class, to prepare the students for the experiment. The lecture on ion
exchange was carefully prepared, but after a few words about "ions and ion exchange",
several student hands went up. The question was, "Sir, what is this iron that you are
speaking of?" Of course, the lecture had nothing to do with "iron". After continued
questioning, I wrote the words "ion
exchange" on the board, producing a sigh of relief
from the students. Now they were with me.
Of course, the problem was mine, not theirs. The word "ion" is pronounced with a
hard "i",
like "eye".
That requires speaking from the front of the mouth, with tightened
vocal cords. I had never learned to speak that way. My "ion" came out as "ahn",
sounding to them something like "iron", from the back of the mouth. None of my students
was from the South.
Writing on the board salvaged that lecture, but similar problems continued. It took
so much time for translation through writing that the students fell behind in their
experiments. I was getting a little frantic. It reminded me of a communication problem in
the seventh grade, although that one had nothing to do with Southern accent. Soon there
was a student delegation to the Department Chairman, Professor Warren K. Lewis, the
world giant of chemical engineering. The delegation politely told Professor Lewis that they
liked this new man, Pigford, but they could not understand him and were falling behind in
the course. Completing this course was an Army requirement.
Professor Lewis was from southern Delaware, which waffled its allegiance during
that misunderstanding between the states and almost joined the Confederacy. He called me
in and explained that he was partial to me as a fellow Southerner. He warned me that my
deferment depended on my teaching that course, and that I was obligated to provide the
instruction that M.I.T. and the Army expected. After listening to one of my lectures, he
concluded that he could not understand me either. He was a talented and innovative man.
The solution was to give Pigford special instruction in speaking English. Boston has many
such courses, for Italian and Irish immigrants.
Professor Lewis arranged for an intensive course that occupied much of my time for
two months. The instructor worked on fundamentals, much like Coach Sawyer s approach
to tennis. After weeks of exercising the throat, mouth, lips, and tongue, I was able to say
"ion" with a strong, hard "i".
My course was salvaged. I was even taught to call an
automobile a "cah",
and other words in New England brogue, speaking like Jack Kennedy.
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Fortunately, the New England brogue did not help in teaching the Army class, -so it<iid-not
persist.
Speaking this new kind of English, with hard vowels and consonants, required
conscious positioning of the mouth and throat before every such word, and it still does.
Speaking that way in lectures finally became a habit, so there went much of my Southern
accent, something I never expected or wanted to happen. One course in pronunciation
would have no lasting effect, but after eleven years of subsequent teaching at M.I.T., with
legitimate complaints by students when I became sloppy, speaking with hard consonants
and vowels became imprinted.
The aftereffects were dismal! In the next trip to Meridian to visit my parents, I
was properly accused of "talking like a Yankee". I could then easily break the habit, but
eventually it became too difficult.
Sailing
A major feature of M.I.T. is its sailing. M.I.T. is located on the east side of the
Charles River Basin, a large body of water that separates Cambridge from Boston. I first
lived in Boston, on Marlboro Street, in the fine old Back Bay section. It was bracing to
walk across the long Harvard Bridge every mornng and evening, in the miserable freezing
winter weather.
The Harvard Bridge, Cambridge to Boston
M.I.T. maintained a fine sailing club on the shore of the basin, just a few minutes
walk from the classrooms,: There was a fleet of forty .sailing dinghies, all lightweight, lap-
strake wooden boats, fourteen feet long, designed by Nathaniel Herreshoff, the famous
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Cape Cod naval architect. -The boats -were .all identical, for intercollegiate -racing,-
they could be checked out by students and staff for pleasure sailing.
Sailing had long been one of my favorite hobbies, even though I had never sailed
before. As early as I can remember I would pour through the outdoor magazines handed
down by our neighbor, Mr. Carl Myer, William Blum s uncle. Reading the stories about
sailing occupied many wonderful hours while hidden away in my tree house. From those
magazines I learned all of the strange terminology of sailing. For example, the "boom" is
that stick that projects out from the mast to hold the sail down and that bumps heads when
turning across the wind. "Port side" is the left side unless you are facing backwards. A
"line" is a rope used to pull something, but it must never be called a rope, unless it is no
longer useful as a line or unless you work for a chandlery. Lines that control the angles
of sails are "sheets", even for little sailboats with no place for sleeping. I kept
accumulating this knowledge of sailing words and was ready to use it in real sailing in
Boston.
When spring came I went to the M.I.T. Sailing Pavilion and asked to take out a
boat. I expected that a test would be required, so I had thought out every sailing
maneuver in my mind. I learned, unfortunately, that M.I.T. requires everyone to complete
a four-month sailing course. With the war and military service nipping at my heels, I
decided to try the Boston Sailing Club on the far side of the Charles River Basin. Their
boats were about the same size as those at M.I.T., though not as good. They required no
formal instruction, so I asked for a test to qualify as skipper, a person who can take a boat
out by himself. I had no time to waste on beginning as a crew. I had never actually
been on a sailboat, but it seemed pretty simple.
Fortunately, it was one of those hot, windless days in Boston. Otherwise, I
probably would have repeated the disaster of my first tennis tournament, at Marion Park
School in the fifth grade, when I boldly entered the tournament without ever having played
tennis. There was no breeze, except for a weak puff when someone opened a window in a
nearby riverside apartment The boat could only drift. The examiner was so impressed
with my knowledge of sailing terms that he assumed, incorrectly, that I was an experienced
sailor, so I
passed. I then proceeded to learn to sail, sailing at every opportunity and in
every kind of boat possible as the forthcoming Navy service moved me around the country
and pan of the world.
Sailing is a wonderful and absorbing pastime. The interaction of sun, wind, sails,
hull, and water is pure poetry and music, sometimes quiet and gentle, sometimes a
blustering challenge to stay afloat, always changing. Racing against others in one-design
sailboats of the same measurements is as competitive as a good game of chess, although to
an observer it is like watching the grass grow!
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The Ensign
In spite of my new, polished New Englandish, deferment disappeared in early 1944.
Instead of accepting employment at an unknown place in Tennessee called Oak Ridge, I
gladly chose to accept a commission in the Navy, together with a clothing allowance for
bright, new uniforms, which kept me in Boston for a couple of years.
I was among a group of graduate students selected by the Navy to learn the new
science of radar, developed in part at M.I.T. We were supposed to wear uniforms at all
times. The Navy assumed that its new ensigns would purchase their uniforms from the
"ship
s stores" at the nearby Charleston Navy Yard, where the great ship from the war of
1812, the Constitution, is anchored. However, there were several private tailors who had
shops near the Navy Yard, and they were popular with young officers who wanted a more
modern cut to their uniforms. I soon had an elegantly tailored ensign s outfit, together
with a non-regulation jacket patterned after the new short jacket worn by General
Eisenhower. A status symbol in the Navy was to wear clothing from other services, like
the Air Force or Marines, even though we were supposed to do that only aboard ship.
I couldn t wait to shoulder my responsibilities as an officer, whatever they were.
Not knowing the protocol, I saluted every person in sight wearing a uniform, but was
surprised at how few people returned the salute. A week later our group entered a
concentrated program, led by a rather tired Chief Petty Officer (CPO), to teach us the
fundamentals of being officers in the U.S. Navy in wartime, including whom and when to
salute, how to acknowledge a command with no intent of performing it, how to speak and
understand Navy Language, how to appear to be a seasoned Navy officer, and how to
procure cigarettes and nylons to barter with the natives.
The textbook response to a command from an officer is "Aye, aye, sir."
According
to the textbook, this means "I understand and will obey, sir." If between non
commissioned sailors, the "sir" is omitted. The "Aye, aye"
is a convenient expression. It
stops the person giving the order from saying more. In reality, the person ordered seldom
does what is ordered. Thus, "Aye, aye" conveniently postpones arguments to a later time.
I now believe the Navy textbook to be wrong in the meaning of "Aye, aye".
The
textbook correctly states that the command, like so many Navy terms, is of old English
origin. But, the Navy is wrong when it says that "aye"
means "I have understood and will
carry it out." It seems to me that "aye"
is likely a Cockney derivative of the Japanese
"hai", pronounced by the phonetics "ha-ee". When said as one word it sounds almost like
our English "hi". "Hai" is used by Japanese to mean "yes", usually expressed as "hai,
hai".
However, the affirmative "hai, hai" does have a distinctive meaning. It does not
mean "Yes, I agree"
or "Yes, I will do so." Not knowing this, many American business
men, seeking to tap the financial riches of post-war Japan, have plodded through long
negotiations with their Japanese counterparts, reassured by "hai, hai"
many times during the
discussion. Thinking he has arrived finally at agreement, the American produces a contract
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for signing, only to hear in dismay a polite refusal from the Japanese. -Actually, "hai"
means only "Yes, I understand"; no agreement or promise of compliance is intended.
Thus, this new idea that "aye, aye"
was derived from "hai, hai" can explain the
prevailing practice of Navy personnel who do nothing after acknowledging "Aye, aye".
The fact that there was no known interchange between Britain and Japan during the early
years of the British Navy raises the question of how "hai hai" became known to Britain.
However, that is a mere detail that can be solved with further research or imagination.
We ensigns were understandably embarrassed that our duty was entirely on the
shore, in a safe, dry, classroom environment, with no connection to boats and water. We
stood out like sore thumbs among the seasoned salts in the fine Officer s Club on Boston s
Boylston Street, because of our new uniforms with the bright gold braid and stiff, starched,
white hat covers. One day we learned that our CPO instructor had added new gold braid
to his now heavy uniform, in recognition of his extended service and hazardous duty in
teaching young ensigns. But his new braid looked like the old. We needed no further
instruction. A few twists of lemon from Officer s-Club martinis produced enough citric
acid to dull the gold braid and buttons. The proper rakish look of the hat resulted from
sitting on it until the white cover drooped a little towards the ears, like the bill hats worn
by the British Air Force officers. It was too successful. People at the Officers Club asked
why I was still only an ensign.
The rest of the Officer s Training Course was about Navy Language, and that was a
mouthful! I already had a good start, having already learned sailboat language. But there
were many new expressions for big boats and ships, fleets of ships, and for bureaucratic
Navy organizations. Navy Language is deceptive. It even uses a few words of English
here and there. We were instructed to use this language in all activities dealing with the
Navy, whether aboard ship, in the Officers Club, or in our special classrooms at M.I.T.
We had to learn that the "head" is not the captain but the bathroom. The "galley"
is the
kitchen unless it is a boat full of slaves and oars. "Sick
bay"
results when an oil tanker is
improperly piloted, like the Exxon Valdez; it is also the local infirmary. "Belay"
means to
secure a line to something, such as a "belaying pin",
unless it means to stop doing
something. Thus, "belay belaying" means to stop securing a line, unless it means to
resume action.
The Navy uses this complicated language so that it can have a four-year academy at
Annapolis, where they teach officer cadets to talk, salute, and to sail. Annapolis is the
most scholarly of U.S. military academies, the only U.S. educational institution in which all
communication is officially in a language other than English.
The Longwood Cricket Club
The best of Boston was open to young Naval officers, through the countless
invitations on file at the Officer s Club on Boylston Street. I
accepted an invitation to
play tennis with an old, established New England family, the Hardings, who lived in
Chestnut Hill. They belonged to the Longwood Cricket Club, where there is little cricket
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but droves of beautiful-grass- courts manicured.like,putting greens, .like .the center court-at .
Wimbledon. These were the first courts that were as beautiful to me as my two clay
courts at Highland Park in Meridian. They surpassed anything that I could have imagined.
The Longwood club house is an extensive mansion, all white, with gold fixtures in
the locker rooms. They required that all tennis clothing be completely white and clean,
except for the warm-up sweater, which could have one thin black stripe and a thin red
stripe. It was the first time that I had ever used white polish on tennis shoes. Even the
balls were all white in those days. Of course, after a long set the balls developed a green
tinge from the grass, but in a place like Longwood new balls are produced so readily that
the all-white decor remained. Most of the men played in white flannels, but by then white
tennis shorts had also become acceptable.
As so frequently happened, the Harding s invitation for young Navy officers to play
tennis was not completely altruistic. There were two Harding daughters, Beth and Gerry.
My role was to bring another male player and play mixed doubles. I found the perfect
fourth in Rowland Bevans. He received military deferment because his graduate research
was related to a military project, so he was happy to be the fourth for mixed doubles at
Longwood. Bevans was the son of a Congregational minister in Quincy, Massachusetts.
He was tall, fit, excelled in many sports, and had a classic New England accent. When
the Hardings saw his prep-school blazer, he would be readily accepted as a perfect fourth
for play at Longwood. The Hardings might even think that he was Episcopalian!
The Longwood doubles were pleasant tennis, but not exhilarating. The Harding
girls had received years of private lessons from the Longwood professional, but they were
not really competitive. Bevans and I soon learned that we were expected to serve easy
balls for them to return. Gerry was the closest to a real player. She was something of a
tomboy; she ran hard after every ball. She was the first female player whom I had seen
perspire. It didn t bother her at all. My heart warmed to her, here was a girl who had
learned to really enjoy the game. Occasionally Beth and Gerry would sit out a set and
allow Bevans and me to play singles, but not often.
The Harding girls were not nearly so pretty as the grass courts. At every
opportunity I talked with the many court attendants about their work, and I finally met The
Master of the Courts. He was not the teaching professional but the man in charge of all
the maintenance. What a terrific job! I would readily have gone AWOL from the Navy
and dumped my M.I.T. studies for a chance to perform the artistic manicuring of the
Longwood grass courts.
I had already realized that I must not mention to the Hardings my dim background
as a small town "tennis
pro".
If they had known, I would have been politely but firmly
excluded. It was alright for their daughters to take lessons from the real tennis
professional at Longwood, but it would be unacceptable to include such a person in a
social game within this proper old New England family. I could expect even less tolerance
if they knew that my real pro activities were as a grounds keeper, and that I identified
more with The Master of the Courts than with the playing-teaching professional.
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- ... ... The Hardings thought-^hat- 1-was a. -little,
strange and. were somewhat, embarrassed-
about my fascination with court tending. However, they had learned to expect odd things
from this unpolished Southern boy, and it was obvious that I was certainly not
Episcopalian. When I first appeared at the Harding mansion in Chestnut Hill, to meet the
family and to be introduced to the Longwood scene, not only were the daughters Beth and
Gerry in tennis clothes, but their mother as well! I was unprepared for such
unconventional habits. In Meridian male adults and older people, like Mr. Ben Cameron
and Dr. H. M. Ivy, played tennis, but I had neither seen nor heard of a woman at thar age
playing tennis. Even Meridian s Nell Sanders, playing tennis while in her thirties, war an
anomaly. I blurted to Mrs. Harding, "Are
you still playing tennis?" She was a well bred,
fine woman. She laughed politely and said, "Yes, at Longwood even we older women
play at times." I liked her best of all.
On rainy days or in the evenings we played tennis with the Harding girls on the
beautiful indoor courts at THE COUNTRY CLUB, in nearby Brookline. I had already
learned about THE COUNTRY CLUB, which had an open invitation at the Officer s Club
for young officers to play golf there. Playing golf with the daughter of a member was not
required. I offended even the motherly director of the Officers Club when I asked what
THE COUNTRY CLUB was. I learned that any well-bred citizen anywhere from
Princeton, N.J. to the far north will know about the one and only COUNTRY CLUB. It is
so exclusive that it needs no further identification. It is a private club, more elegant and
with more gold fixtures than even the Longwood Cricket Club. The golf course was the
most beautiful I had ever seen. Servants in uniforms or formal clothes opened doors,
brought tall drinks, handed out and washed golf balls, and raked sand in the traps. There
was a professional for every activity, including massages.
Adjacent to the building with the indoor tennis courts was an indoor arena for
equestrians. In another building was a rink for ice skating and a curling ice, shuffleboard-
like strips of ice where strange people with unmatching shoes bowl large oval-shaped
stones and other people sweep the ice rapidly with brooms to help guide the stones to stop
at the proper place at the other end. I have pointed out to my curling friends in Weston,
Massachusetts, that a blow torch would be more effective, but they are traditionalists and
prefer the brooms. There were several good squash courts, where I played years later, in
the Boston-Cambridge squash league. The indoor tennis courts at THE COUNTRY CLUB
were clay, much like my courts at Highland Park, except they used wet-lime lines instead
of my glowing dry-lime lines. I never managed to meet the Master of the Courts to
suggest dry lines to him.
Squash
The adventures of the war years led me to San Diego, Hawaii, shipboard life in the
Pacific, Japan, San Francisco, and back to M.I.T. Graduate studies continued to be the
greatest fun, but skiing occupied most weekends and squash the late afternoons on week
days. Squash is played in a box-like court, similar to a hand ball court. A hard rubber
ball is used, between a hand ball and golf ball in hardness. The racket is as long as a
tennis racket, but much lighter, with a long wooden shaft from the handle to the head.
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The strung head is almost -round,- -only about eight -inches across. The strings are gut,-
similar to tennis strings, but strung a few pounds tighter. The walls, floor, and ceiling of
the court are all white, which makes it easy to see the black ball. The ball can be allowed
to bounce on all surfaces except the ceiling. The ball must bounce no more than once on
the floor before being returned. The return must reach the front wall about a foot above
the floor or higher. That s all there is to it!
Because the ball is so hard and resilient, it can be hit quite hard. It goes the
fastest of any of the games played with rackets. There is a lot of solid geometry involved,
because the ball can carom off any of the walls, any number of times, as long as it
only
bounces once on the floor. The hard ball comes off the sweet spot of the racket so fast
that it raises a bad welt and bruise if it hits a player. Mr. Cameron s sizzling shots from
his backhand court were nothing compared to this. Of course, there are two players in a
singles match. Each player is supposed to move aside after he hits a shot, enough to give
the opponent room to make the return. However, if one moves too far out of the mid
court, it will be easy for his opponent to put the return out of reach. Consequently, the
players are close together. To keep one player from crowding the other, the rules provide
that if a player is hit by the opponent s ball, that player loses the point. That rule invites
some ungentlemanly strategy, such as hitting your opponent with the ball.
M.I.T. had a fine squash and tennis professional, Jack Summers. In his 50 s, he
could easily beat most of the best squash players around. That is the mark of a great
game, when it can be played competitively so late in life.
I became far better at squash than I had ever been at tennis. Tennis is the better
game, more demanding and difficult, but squash was the better game for me. It could fit
into a tight daily schedule and was available when needed. Also, the squash ball has no
fuzz; it lasts until it breaks apart, whereas in tennis having to buy new balls so frequently
is a nuisance. However, I could never be happy as a caretaker of squash courts. All that
is required is repainting once or twice a year to cover the little black smudges where the
ball has bounced off the floor and walls.
Squashmanship in the Boston-Cambridge League
I was finally able to win a few games from Bevans, who was still at M.I.T. on its
research staff. We challenged each other daily on the indoor courts, but we faced many
other players in the Cambridge-Boston city league. We graduate students and staff were
not eligible for intercollegiate competition, but the city league was designed for people like
us. Representing the M.I.T. Squash Club, we competed against Harvard University, THE
COUNTRY CLUB, the Union Boat Club near the Old State House on the Boston
Common, and the Harvard Club in Boston, and there were occasional matches in New
York at the Harvard Club, the Yale Club, and the New York Athletic Club, and also at
Princeton.
I had to learn new protocol. Most of- the city clubs were exquisitely furnished, like
THE COUNTRY CLUB that I described earlier. In dressing out, we were offered
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-massages -to- loosen the-muscles -and- tall, drinks. to. relieve the tension.., At my.first. rnatch_at..,
the Union Boat Club, I failed to notice that my opponent host did not drink, even though
he ordered one for me. I wanted to try everything, but the double Scotch and soda
quickly lost the match for me. The massages were worthwhile, though, after coming in
from the frigid Boston winter.
There was an M.I.T. team for graduate students, research staff, and other employees
and one for faculty. I played on both because, as so frequently happened, I did many
things backwards and out of order. M.I.T. appointed me to the regular faculty before I
finished as a graduate student. This was typical of the lucky accidents of my career. I
was ill prepared and had no qualifications; college professors have no training in teaching.
I was assigned to teach courses that I had never studied, frequently teaching graduate
students older and smarter than I.
My job was to teach some of the new science from
World War II, most of which I had not learned. There were no textbooks, so I wrote text
notes while struggling to learn the subject and stay ahead of the students. In spite of the
pressure, that was the most fun I have had in teaching. As I had felt in earlier jobs, it
seemed wrong that M.I.T. should pay me for doing such interesting things. The faculty
job did interrupt my student work and deferred my graduation. I didn t mind, because by
then I wanted to be a student forever. However, being on both squash teams became
complicated at times and lasted longer than I intended.
One of the scheduled league matches was for our faculty squash team to play our
graduate-student squash team. Each team maintained a ladder ranking of its players, and
players of corresponding ladder ranking were paired for a match, the number one player on
one team playing the number one player on the other. I was ranked number four on both
B-league teams, so I was scheduled to play myself. I explained to Coach Summers, who
was coach and match overseer for both teams, that I could easily do this in squash. I
could hit one stroke for one team and the next for the other. It only required that I
remember which team I was hitting for when I finally closed out a point. There being
only one human body on the court, I would not get in the other player s way, so it would
be a better game than usual. No one would dare to question my integrity by suggesting
that I might not try hard for both sides.
Coach Summers could find no rule on this subject. It was important to find a
precedent. The National Squash League is as tightly controlled as the U.S. Lawn Tennis
Association, probably because so many Harvard and Yale lawyers are avid squash players.
Coach Summers was swayed by my logic, but he demanded a demonstration.
Unfortunately, I had to play so slowly, to remember which side I was hitting for at the
time, that it was a dull, slow game. Coach Summers said that with that kind of play both
of us would have to be demoted to the lower C League.
Ranking adjustment is ruled out for league squash. Each team ladder is established
by a formal process of challenge by team players. Every week or so I would receive a
formal notice of challenge from a team colleague lower on our team ladder. It was like a
traffic citation, to be responded to within a specified time. The team ranking is posted and
must be adhered to. Coach Summers was presented with a dilemma. He telephoned the
National Squash League in New York, which advised that the match of Pigford versus
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Pigford should be defaulted -because -of -incompatibility with existing -legislation: -Goach -
Summers did exactly that In the Squash League, a default by one player is credited as a
win to the other player. He listed a win by each of the Pigfords, resulting in one more
win than there were matches. I heard that the lawyers added a few lines to the rules at
their next meeting.
This was my first encounter with rigid legislation of a competitive sport It was
trivial compared with what I was to experience in competitive sailboat racing. Except in
America s Cup races, the competitors themselves police the race. Each competitor must
watch his opponents and inform the Race Committee of any infraction. That is why
competitive sailing is the ultimate "gentleman s sport."
In races each boat must carry a red
protest flag, to fly from the shrouds to alert the Race Committee of an opponent s
infraction. A Protest Committee hears the protest after the race. Some sailors take this
very seriously. Once when I protested a former friend of mine for not rounding a buoy
properly, he counter-protested me on the grounds that my protest flag was two inches
under regulation size. I was disqualified. If I had realized what an intense sport sailing
would later become for me and my family, I might have taken some courses in law at
nearby Harvard. Harvard and M.I.T. allowed free exchange of students.
On other match days in the city league I played two matches, to represent both
teams, traveling across the city from one club to another, until M.I.T. consolidated its
graduate-student and faculty squash teams. Playing on two teams was good for my squash,
but it was more tussling than I needed!
The Confederate Flag
It was a fellow Southerner, Frank Weems, from Birmingham, Alabama, who got me
in trouble with the law about a Confederate flag. Frank and I were roommates in The
Graduate House, a separate M.I.T. dormitory for graduate students. It was an impressive
former hotel, six stories high, at the Cambridge end of the Harvard Bridge, overlooking the
Charles River Basin, with the M.I.T. Sailing Pavilion nearby. Our suite of rooms was on
the western corner of the top floor. An earlier roommate, John Carleton, had been
awarded that prize suite because of his political power as Commodore of the M.I.T. Sailing
Club. He could survey all sailing activities from our window. John and I were both
dedicated to our careers as perpetual students, sailing, squashing, skiing, studying new
subjects, and doing new experiments, supported by fellowships or other stipends.
Unfortunately, John made a disastrous mistake. Like many careless students, he fulfilled
all degree requirements, so he had to graduate and go to work for a living. I kept the
suite and added Frank as a new roommate.
One of the graduation presents from my Georgia Tech friends was a large
Confederate flag, 4 by 8 feet, which they hoped would add security for my ventures in the
North. Carleton didn t
approve of it, but after he left the flag was proudly displayed on
the wall of our Graduate House suite. It was the inspiration for many parties. Frank
Weems was the best party person in our graduate school. Our suite was the most desirable
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for big parties, with girls-from Radcliffe, Wellesley,--and from the Boston finishing -school -
called Katherine Gibbs. With Frank, it was almost a continuous party.
One weekend, when I was in New Hampshire skiing, Frank had climaxed one of his
parties by taking the shower-curtain pole from our bathroom and erecting it as a flagpole
from the large bay window of our tower suite, proudly displaying my large Confederate
flag. It was reported that he did this with proper ceremony, playing "To the Colors" on
his Boy Scout bugle. The flag did lend charm to the Graduate House, and our House
Master, Professor Avery Ashdown, kindly ignored it.
About two weeks later, when Frank was in Connecticut for a job interview, I was
contacted by a Boston newspaper, The Boston Globe. The reporter said that he had heard
about the Confederate flag and wanted to do a human-interest story for the paper. I
admitted that it was my flag, but pointed out that flying it for all of Boston to see was my
roommate s doing, and that the story should focus on him. The reporter said that it was
kind of urgent, that it would occupy only a small space in a back page of the paper, and
that he would even give some publicity to a new Graduate School dance that I was helping
organize. I had not yet learned to question what reporters say. The reporter brought his
photographer, who took a picture of me hoisting the flag, obviously misleading because it
was Frank who usually performed the hoisting ceremony.
The next morning the Boston Globe carried as its leading front-page story a large
picture of me hoisting the flag, with a headline that announced "Flag
of a Foreign Country
at M.I.T." The reporter had been less than forthright with me. Evidently the Daughters of
the American Revolution (the DAR), headquartered in Boston, had seen the flag from the
Boston side. They complained to the District Attorney that the flag of a foreign country
was being illegally displayed from a Cambridge building that was neither an embassy nor a
consulate. Apparently there is some ancient Massachusetts law that prohibits this, unless
explicit permission has been obtained from authorities. It was enacted during the
Revolution, to harass British sympathizers. The District Attorney had promised that he
would investigate, and the Boston Globe heard about it.
They mentioned nothing about
Frank Weems in the article. I was identified as the culprit, a young instructor at M.I.T.
Dr. Ashdown, the House Master, was most sympathetic. He was all for free speech
and freedom of expression, but it
appeared that Frank s flag flying may actually have
broken the law. I agreed to remove the flag. I was more concerned about my job as
instructor at M.I.T. M.I.T. would not want its students to be taught by some foreigner
who was under indictment. The M.I.T. attorney assured me that he was determined to
fight the District Attorney and the Daughters of American Revolution to the end. He was
not interested in the fact that it was Frank who should be indicted, if anyone were to be
indicted. The attorney had once visited New Orleans and had taken a river boat to
Natchez. He was enchanted with the South and believed that everyone in the South lived
on a plantation. Evidently he was ambitious and saw the chance of making a name for
himself in a trial of principle, like Clarence Darrow in the Scopes trial.
Meanwhile, the District Attorney said that it appeared to be a federal issue, because
the law that we had allegedly broken was enacted on behalf of the colonies, not just for
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Massachusetts. He .was planning. on .turning .the, matter, over to the. US.-Attorney. . .
Fortunately, my department chairman, Professor Walt Whitman, convinced the M.I.T.
attorney that it would be best for all concerned to ask the District Attorney and the DAR
to drop the charge, with our promise that the flag would not leave the wall. Frank came
back from Connecticut and was envious that he missed all the great publicity, but he
agreed to behave. After that I worried about going skiing as long as he was my
roommate.
Such a good story soon appeared on Associate Press s national newsline. The story
was intended to say "Student Consecrates Confederate Flag in Massachusetts". That may
be what the AP story said, but the Memphis Commercial Appeal was careless and printed
it as "Student Desecrates Confederate Flag in Massachusetts". Everyone in the South
believes The Commercial Appeal, so I got into more trouble.
It was only a few years later that I became acquainted with some of the Boston
brahmins, many of whom were good Episcopalians and members of the DAR. I was glad
that they had forgotten about the flag incident.
The Confederate Flag
Another Diversion
There was little time for other diversions, but I did manage to meet Katy, real-
named Catherine Cathey, a member of the research staff in M.I.T. s metallurgical
laboratory. Her boss, Professor Nick Grant, is one of the most innovative professors at
M.I.T. in attracting graduate students to carry out his research on high-temperature alloys
for gas turbines. He employed two-teautiful -young- ladies on his -research staff, even-
though they had no formal training in metallurgy. They added style and sophistication to
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the project. The other -girl,-
-Ava- Maria Lewis;- now Whittemore, lives in-Weston,-
Massachusetts, and on Cape Cod. She is still Katy s best friend and mine. These girls
learned fast. Ava became expert in precision lost-wax casting and Katy in X-ray
crystallography.
Katy and Ava once lived in a third-floor apartment in a revolutionary war building
in Boston, on an alley that had once been a cow path near the Old State House, so I could
not cruise by there on my bicycle to attract Katy s attention. Their apartment at "The
Alley"
was just a stone s throw from Lewisburg Square, where Bostonians sing carols at
Christmas in the snow-covered square and play Christmas music with hand-held silver
bells. I frequently dropped in on Katy s M.I.T. laboratory and tuned her crystallographic
X-ray unit. I managed to keep it out of order enough to justify frequent retuning visits.
Although a well-bred Southern girl from Florence, Alabama, Katy played tennis actively,
she played hard, and she even perspired like a real person!
M.I.T. s squash courts were a mere extension to the men s locker room and were
out of bounds to females. I did manage to smuggle Katy into a squash court one evening.
Besides having a devastating loft-type tennis forehand, however unorthodox, Katy was, and
still is, lovely, intelligent, friendly, the light of my life!
M.I.T. had given me a fine fellowship that paid tuition and a stipend, none of
which was taxable. Katy learned that if we were married I would become a tax deduction
on her income as a member of the research staff. She is a shrewd person, so she selected
the afternoon of the last day of the year, December 31st, to make it legal, receiving an
entire year of tax deduction for a mere few moments of passion. Knowing that she might
file for annulment the next day, the first day of 1949, I postponed separation by suggesting
a honeymoon in Bermuda, consuming all of her savings and making her dependent on me
as a continuing tax deduction. We played much tennis in Bermuda, as well as golf. Katy
even liked to bicycle. The Bermuda games were close and challenging. Largely because
of my sound ground strokes from Coach Sawyer, I was the winner. Rather than quit as a
loser, Katy continued as tennis opponent, tennis partner, confidant, wife, and friend.
3-S
There s more to tennis than just Move/
/know!
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Later chronicles deal with tennis in La Jolla, Charles Marion floating across a
Pasadena black asphalt court in black basketball shoes, being proselytized by Berkeley s
Dean O Brien on the center court of the Claremont Tennis Club, traveling as a tennis-
playing legal assistant to Judge J. D. Bond, struggling to hear in the reverberating bubble
courts at Wellesley with Bob Howard, playing moon-ball tennis in Kyoto, and finally being
defeated by Katy, after she took lessons from Frank Kovacs and used an illegal giant
racket called the Prince.
Coach Sawyer s lessons in tennis, basketball, and in life were what this little blond-
headed kid needed to tussle, to find his place, and to compete. They contributed to
enjoyment of life far beyond the pleasure of the sport itself. He was a dedicated and
gifted teacher. If we were so fortunate as to have a Tom Sawyer at Berkeley, I would
advise aspiring physics students to learn tennis and lessons of life from him.
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APPENDIX B
COMMENTS FROM COLLEAGUES
"I
express my admiration for the consistent standard of excellence in which Tom Pigford has
served, the University and the Department of Nuclear Engineering for those thirty years."
Dr. Glen Seaborg, former Chancellor ofU.C. Berkeley, Nobel Laureate andformer
chairman, Atomic Energy Commission at Tom s 1989 retirement symposium
"Tom is a national treasure".
Dr. John P. Garrick, Chairman ofthe Board, PLG (Pickard, Lowe & Garrick) in a May
1996 conversation with Betty at a meeting in Los Vegas
"The
story that best exemplifies the risks associated with ignoring Tom s prudent warnings
goes back to the late 1960s when he served on the AEC s Atomic Safety and Licensing
Board (ASLB) during the construction permit hearings on Diablo Canyon. The intervenors
wished to put on an afternoon of testimony about the possibility of an offshore earthquake
fault. The utility and the AEC staff opposed permitting such testimony, and the ASLB
majority ruled in their favor. Tom dissented, asking what harm could be done by hearing the
testimony and pointing out the harm that could occur were the issue not addressed. The
nuclear plants were approved, and mid-way through construction the Hosgri Fault offshore
was discovered, requiring the utility to retrofit the facility at a cost overrun of many billions
of dollars.
"Throughout his career, Tom has been a voice of reason and thoughtfulness in an arena often
dominated, on both sides, by a near-religious ideological commitment. Be it his courageous
dissent on the National Research Council panel on Yucca Mountain standards or his concerns
about renewal of reprocessing, had his warning been taken to heart, the prospects of a safer,
more proliferation-resistant, and more publicly acceptable nuclear future would be
substantially different than they are today. I must say that my own view about nuclear power
would likely have evolved in a different direction had the industry and its associated agencies
been in the hands of more people of the caliber, foresight and integrity of Tom Pigford."
Daniel Hirsch, President, Committee to Bridge the Gap; former Director , Adlai C.
Stevenson Program on Nuclear Policy, University ofCalifornia, Santa Cruz
"Tom is an "internationally respected expert on reactor design, the fuel cycle and particularly,
recently, the disposal of radioactive waste."
George Jasny, a former student to Tom s at MIT and vice president ofMartin Marietta
Corporation at Oak Ridge, in an introduction of Tom at a presentation to Friends ofOak
Ridge National Laboratory, 2000
289
"Tom Pigford... has had a fantastic impact on nuclear technology, ... he is really the
conscience for our nuclear technology. He embodies the best in the technology that we are
all striving for. On the Three Mile Island Commission ...
[he was] well known for his
moderation, prudence, penetrating insight, and influence in this deliberation."
Dr. Walter Lowenstein, past president, American Nuclear Society, at Tom s 1989 retirement
symposium
"As a journalist and writer on environmental and nuclear waste issues my advocacy of Yucca
Mountain as a potential repository site had put me in direct conflict with officials of the host
state of Nevada and good many of my friends in environmental groups. In these none too
comfortable circumstances I
joined with a great deal of satisfaction into a collaboration with
Tom Pigford in which, as it turned out, we were to prepare several articles together on
nuclear waste isolation and spent fuel reprocessing issues. For me, Tom was (and is) a
veritable mountain of professional integrity and I wanted my opinions and conclusions
measured against his exacting standards. I had been particularly impressed by his dissent as a
minority of one on a critical conclusion reached by the National Research Council panel on
technical standards of the Yucca Mountain repository project. In defining the critical group
the panel chose to look to statistical averaging methods which Tom saw as susceptible to
manipulation. For him the only definition that would do was that of a subsistence farm
family dependent on a deep well near the proposed repository site for its drinking water and
the water used to grow food crops on which the family would rely for much of its diet. This
was, as he saw the bounding case and he insisted upon it. To ally myself with this wise and
courageous dissenter has been for me a comfort and matter of no little pride."
Luther Carter, journalist and co-author with Tom offour significant technical
articles
"When appointed by President Carter to the Three Mile Island (TMI) Commission, Tom
played a key role in developing challenging recommendations to the industry, to ensure that
another accident of the magnitude of TMI could not happen, and also to ensure that events of
less severity could not occur. In fact, it was Tom s wisdom, judgment, and practical
experience that, in my opinion, led to the TMI Commission s recommendations being so well
thought out. Those recommendations have stood the test of time and have served as a catalyst
for significant change. The Commission has made a difference. The strides made by the
industry in the past decade attest to the insight and wisdom of Tom and his fellow
commissioners."
Admiral Dennis Wilkinson, captain ofthefirst nuclear submarine, first president ofthe
Institute ofNuclear Power Operations (INPO), which was created by the utility industry
after the Three Mile Island accident
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APPENDIX C
CITATIONS
Boston Junior Chamber of Commerce, 3/12/56:
"Boston Junior Chamber of Commerce honors Thomas H. Pigford, one of the
Outstanding Young Men of Greater Boston for the year 1955. Through his outstanding
achievement and unselfish efforts he has made a great contribution to his community and
his chosen field of endeavor."
American Nuclear Society, 6/15/71:
"The American Nuclear Society Confers the Membership Grade of Fellow upon Thomas
H. Pigford for his outstanding contributions to the advancement of nuclear Science and
Engineering."
American Nuclear Society, 6/15/71, Arthur Holly Compton Award:
"In
recognition of his many outstanding contributions to nuclear engineering
education, including his key role in establishing nuclear engineering departments
at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the University of California at
Berkeley, and for a distinguished career as a nuclear engineer, author, and
researcher."
President Jimmy Carter, 4/1 1/79:
"Jimmy Carter, President of the United States of America, to all who shall see these
presents. Greeting:
Know ye, that reposing special trust and confidence in the Integrity and Ability of
Thomas Harrington Pigford, of California, I do appoint him a Member of the Presidential
Commission on the Accident at Three Mile Island, and do authorize and empower him to
execute and fulfill the duties of that office, with all the powers, privileges, and
emoluments thereunto of right appertaining, unto him the said Thomas Harrington
Pigford during the pleasure of the President of the United States for the time being."
(Signed by President Jimmy Carter and Secretary of State Cyrus Vance)
U.S. Geological Survey, 3/8/81, John Wesley Powell Award for Citizen s Achievement:
"For contribution to the programs of the U.S. Geological Survey".
American Institute of Chemical Engineers, 1 1/19/80, Robert E. Wilson Award:
"To Thomas H. Pigford, whose clear thought and wise and persuasive counsel as an
educator, researcher, and adviser to government and industry have made major and
lasting contributions to the safe and effective development of nuclear energy."
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American Nuclear Society, 11/1/83:
"This Silver Certificate in recognition of twenty-five years of continuous membership is
awarded to Thomas H. Pigford. With sincere appreciation of your valuable contributions
during twenty-five years of continuous membership in the American Nuclear Society.
Your cooperation and assistance have helped materially in enabling the Society to
experience sound growth and to make notable progress in accomplishing the goals and
objective for which it was founded."
American Institute of Chemical Engineers, 1 1/12/85:
"The American Institute of Chemical Engineers presents its annual SERVICE TO
SOCIETY AWARD to Thomas Harrington Pigford, reflecting outstanding initiative and
unselfish contributions toward the solution of societal problems."
(Accompanied by a check for $10,000)
Berkeley Citation, 6/87:
"The
University of California, Berkeley, honors Thomas H. Pigford for distinguished
achievement and for notable service to the University."
Institute of Nuclear Power Operations, 9/16/87:
RESOLUTION by the Board of Directors of the Institute of Nuclear Power
Operations, September 16, 1987:
RESOLVED, that the Board of Directors of the Institute of Nuclear Power
Operations recognizes the exceptional contributions of the Advisory Council. Since the
Institute s very inception, the council has been a strong and persistent force in the quest
for excellence in the performance of the nation s nuclear power plants.
Moreover, the Advisory Council itself has embodied this same concept of
excellence in its own performance.
FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Board of Directors recognizes and appreciates
the outstanding contribution of Dr. Thomas H. Pigford as a charter member, and as
chairman of the Advisory Council for its first eight years. Dr. Pigford s leadership and
direction of the Council, his ability to probe and to articulate issues, and his untiring
pursuit of excellence have been a source of inspiration to the Institute s staff, directors,
and Council members alike. The Board further recognizes that Dr. Pigford s years of
service to the Institute represent only a portion of a lifetime dedicated to the peaceful use
of nuclear energy.
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THEREFORE, the Board of Directors, through this resolution, extends its utmost
respect and gratitude to the Advisory Council and to Dr. Pigford for his unwavering
commitment and exceptional service to the Institute and the Industry.
National Research Council, 6/89:
"The
Energy Engineering Board, Commission on Engineering and Technical Systems,
Certificate of Appreciation in recognition of outstanding service, to Thomas H. Pigford."
Georgia Institute of Technology, 1995, Elected to Engineering Hall of Fame.
"The
Georgia Institute of Technology honors Thomas H. Pigford for his outstanding
contributions to engineering education and practice and for his dedication to achieving
the highest standards of performance, integrity, and safety in the peaceful applications of
nuclear energy."
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APPENDIX D
Department of Nuclear Engineering
University of California
Berkeley, California 94720
July, 2001
CURRICULUM VITAE FOR
THOMAS H. PIGFORD
POSITION AND AFFILIATION
Professor of Nuclear Engineering (Emeritus), Graduate Professor
University of California, Berkeley
Berkeley, California 94720
Tel: 510-652-0393
Fax: 510-652-0747
E-mail: pigford@nuc.berkeley.edu
Home: 166 Alpine Terrace, Oakland, California 9461 8
DATE AND PLACE OF BIRTH
Meridian, Mississippi
April 21, 1922
EDUCATION
B.S. in Chemical Engineering, Georgia Institute of Technology (magna cum laude), 1943
S.M. in Chemical Engineering, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1948
Sc.D. in Chemical Engineering, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1952
FAMILY
In 1948 Pigford married Catherine Kennedy Cathey, of Florence, Alabama, now deceased.
There are two daughters: Cynthia Naylor, of Durham, California, and Julie Brink, of Albany,
California.
Pigford married Elizabeth Weekes, of Berkeley, California, in November, 1994.
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EMPLOYMENT HISTORY
Dr. Pigford is Professor Emeritus and Graduate Professor of Nuclear Engineering at the
University of California, Berkeley. Rejoined the University in 1959 to become the first
Chairman of the new Department of Nuclear Engineering, for the period 1959-1964. He was
appointed again as Department Chairman for the periods 1974-1979 and 1984-1988. He has also
been Senior Scientist at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory of the University of California.
During 1959-1964 Dr. Pigford led the development of the new Neutronics Research Laboratory
at the University of California, including the construction of the University s 1
Megawatt
research nuclear reactor. He served as Reactor Administrator from 1959-1964, 1974-1979, and
1984-1988. He officially retired from the University of California in 1991, but since then he has
continued his affiliation as Professor of the Graduate School.
During the period 1957-1959 Dr. Pigford participated in the founding of the General Atomic
Laboratory in LaJolla, California. He was Director of Engineering, Director of Nuclear Reactor
Projects, and Assistant Director of the Research Laboratory.
Dr. Pigford began his teaching career at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. In 1946-1947
he was Instructor in Chemical Engineering and Assistant Director of the M.I.T. Graduate School
of Chemical Engineering Practice at Parlin, N.J. From 1950 to 1952 he was Assistant Professor
of Chemical Engineering and Director of the M.I.T. Graduate School of Engineering Practice at
Oak Ridge, Tennessee. In 1952 he joined Professor Manson Benedict in inaugurating M.I.T. s
new graduate program in Nuclear Engineering at Cambridge, Mass. In 1955 he became
Associate Professor of Nuclear and Chemical Engineering at M.I.T.
In 1952 he was Senior Development Engineer with the Aqueous Homogenous Nuclear Reactor
Project, Oak Ridge National Laboratory.
PROFESSIONAL FIELD
Dr. Pigford s professional field has spanned a broad range of science and technology in chemical
engineering, combustion, and nuclear engineering. Since 1950 he has been active in nuclear
reactor design, nuclear reactor safety, operations and analysis of the nuclear fuel cycle, chemical
engineering of effluent control technologies, analysis of the release and transport of toxic
contaminants in the environment, radioactive waste management, and the behavior and transport
of toxic waste buried in geologic media. He is an active consultant to industry and government in
these areas.
In 1959 Dr. Pigford initiated research at the University of California, Berkeley, on the diffusion
of fission gases from uranium-carbide nuclear fuel, materials for direct conversion of fission
energy to electrical energy, and thermionic fuel elements to convert fission heat to electrical
energy.
His subsequent research in nuclear-chemical engineering led to the theoretical analysis of
nuclear fuel cycles for uranium and thorium fueling of commercial light-water nuclear reactors,
heavy-water reactors, gas-cooled reactors, and fast-breeder reactors. These analyses included
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reprocessing requirements, environmental controls, properties of radioactive waste, special fuel
cycles to minimize proliferation of material for nuclear weapons, and special fuel cycles for
partitioning and transmuting recycled actinides and fission products.
Since 1977 Dr. Pigford has led a research program at the University of California to develop
theoretical means of predicting the long-term behavior of underground disposal of radioactive
and chemical waste. Results of this research have been used in the design of geologic
repositories for radioactive waste in the U.S. and abroad.
Beginning in 1993 he has been also engaged in studies related to nuclear weapons proliferation
and arms control.
RESEARCH AND PUBLICATIONS
Dr. Pigford is coauthor, with Professor Manson Benedict, of the textbook "Nuclear Chemical
Engineering", published by McGraw Hill in 1958. In 1983 Benedict and Pigford published a
substantial revision of this text, together with an additional author. Dr. Hans Levi. The text has
been translated into Russian and Japanese.
Dr. Pigford is author and coauthor of over 280 research papers and reports on nuclear reactor
safety, nuclear reactor design, environmental control, and management of radioactive and toxic
waste. His research group has included other faculty and professional research staff and graduate
students working on research dissertations. The research has been sponsored by the U.S.
Department of Energy and by government organizations in Sweden and Japan.
Since 1960 Dr. Pigford has been Editor of the McGraw Hill textbook Series in Nuclear
Engineering.
Dr. Pigford holds several patents in the fields of chemical and nuclear engineering.
PROFESSIONAL SOCIETIES, HONORS, AND AWARDS
Dr. Pigford was elected to the National Academy of Engineering in 1976. The Academy cited his
contributions in nuclear reactor safety, nuclear fuel-cycle analysis, nuclear chemical engineering,
and nuclear education. He was a member of the Academy s Honors and Awards Committee from
1985 through 1987 and was Chairman in 1986. He has been a member of the Academy s Peer
Selection Committee for new membership.
Dr. Pigford is a cofounder and charter member of the American Nuclear Society. He is a former
Director of the Society. In 1971 he was elected Fellow.
In 1971 Dr. Pigford received the Arthur H. Compton Award of the American Nuclear Society for
his contributions in nuclear reactor safety and in nuclear engineering education. He received a
Founder s Award in 1980.
From 1963 through 1974 Dr. Pigford was a member of the National Atomic Safety and
Licensing Board Panel of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission and of the U.S. Nuclear
Regulatory Commission. He was a member of the first Atomic Safety and Licensing Board to
evaluate nuclear reactor safety.
296
In 1979 Dr. Pigford was appointed by President Jimmy Carter to the Presidential Commission on
the Accident at Three Mile Island.
In 1980 he was selected by representatives of the U.S. nuclear electric utility companies to be the
first Chairman of the Advisory Council for the new Institute of Nuclear Power Operations, an
organization founded by the U.S. utilities to promote safety and operations excellence in the
aftermath of the accident at Three Mile Island. He served through 1988.
The American Institute of Chemical Engineers honored Dr. Pigford with the Robert E. Wilson
award in 1980 and the Service to Society award in 1985.
In 1980 he received the John Wesley Powell Award given by the U.S. Geological Survey.
In 1986 he was appointed by the U.S. Secretary of Energy to be a member of the Expert
Consultant Group to Evaluate the Chernobyl Accident and the N Reactor at Hanford.
In 1982 he was appointed by the U.S. Secretary of Energy to the Committee to Evaluate the New
Production Reactor.
From 1980 through 1993 he was Chairman of the Advisory Committee on Nuclear Reactor
Safety and Operations for the River Bend Nuclear Plant in Louisiana, reporting to the Board of
Directors of the Gulf State Utilities Co.
In 1987 he received the University of California, Berkeley award for "distinguished
achievement, and for notable University service."
In 1988 he was appointed a member of the delegation from the U.S. National Academies of
Science and Engineering to establish a program in Reactor Safety Cooperation with the USSR.
From 1987 through 1989 he was a consultant to the Board of Directors of the Pacific Gas &
Electric Co.
In 1988 he was a member of the Oversight Committee for the Rancho Seco Plant, Sacramento
Municipal Utility District.
From 1986 through 1990 he was a member of the General Electric Company s Advisory
Committee on Nuclear Safety, for the government-sponsored SP-100 Project to develop a
nuclear power plant for space applications.
From 1968 through 1976 he was a member of the Criticality Hazards Review Committee for the
Union Carbide and Carbon Co., Y-12 and K-25 Plants, Oak Ridge, Tenn.
In 1995 he was elected to the Engineering Hall of Fame of the Georgia Institute of Technology.
Research in Radioactive Waste Management
From 1978 through 1985 Dr. Pigford was a member of the Board on Radioactive Waste
Management of the National Research Council, the research arm of the National Academies of
Science and Engineering.
297
From 1978 through 1981 he was a member of the National Research Council s Oversight Panel
for the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant, an underground radioactive waste repository in New Mexico.
In 1980-83 he was Chairman of the National Research Council s Panel for the Waste Isolation
System Study, a study to evaluate the U.S. program for development of a future geologic
repository for the disposal and isolation of high-level radioactive waste.
In 1984 he was a member of the U.S. Department of Energy s Performance Assessment National
Review Group for High-Level Radioactive Waste Management.
From 1986 through 1991 he was a member of the Expert Consultant Group for High-Level
Waste Disposal: Project 90, for Sweden s Nuclear Power Inspectorate.
In 1975-1976 he was a member of the American Physical Society s Committee to Evaluate
Nuclear Fuel Cycles and Waste Disposal.
In 1977 he was a member of the National Peer Review Panel for Geologic Criteria for
Radioactive Waste Isolation, U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
In 1987 he was a member of the U.S. Department of Energy s Committee to Review Site
Characterization for the Basalt Waste Isolation Plant Project at Hanford Washington.
In 1986-1995 he was a member of the Peer Review Committee for Performance Assessment, for
the New Mexico Waste Isolation Pilot Plant, Sandia Laboratories.
In 1991-1995 he was a member of the National Research Council Panel for Separations
Technology and Transmutation Systems.
In 1993-1995 he was a member of the National Research Council Panel on Technical Bases for
the Yucca Mountain Standard.
In 1993-1994 he was a member of the National Academy of Science Panel on Reactor Options
for the Disposition of Military Plutonium.
In 1996-1997 he was a member of the Committee for the International Symposium on Nuclear
Fuel Cycle and Reactor Strategies: Adjusting to New Realities," International Atomic Energy
Agency, Vienna, Austria.
Service to Educational Institutions
Dr. Pigford was a member of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Corporation s Visiting
Committee for the Department of Nuclear Engineering in 1977-1983.
He was a member of the Visiting Committee for the Department of Chemical and Nuclear
Engineering, University of California, Santa Barbara, California in 1984-1990.
In 1993 he was a member of the Search Committee for Reactor Technology Chair for the Royal
Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden.
298
Other Public Service
In 1984-1988 he was a member of the Corporate Advisory Committee for the Oak Ridge
National Laboratory.
In 1986-1987 Dr. Pigford was a member of the National Research Council s Panel on Fission-
Fusion Hybrids.
In 1980-1985 he was a member of the Visiting Committee for the Materials Science Division,
Los Alamos National Laboratory.
/
In 1985-1991 he was a member of the University of California s Oversight Committee on
Environmental Health and Safety for the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, the Los
Alamos National Laboratory, and the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory.
He has served on the Visiting Review Committee for the Magnetic Fusion Energy Program,
Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory.
Additional Consulting to Industry and Government
E. I. DuPont de Nemours & Co., Savannah River Plant, reactor operations and chemical
separations, 1954-1957.
Pratt and Whitney Aircraft Corporation, development and design of a nuclear reactor for aircraft
propulsion, 1953-1957.
Foster Wheeler Corporation, design of nuclear power reactors, 1953-1957.
General Atomic, design of nuclear reactors for marine propulsion and for central-station nuclear
power, 1959-1968.
Electric Power Research Institute, nuclear plant safety, radioactive waste management,
programmatic review, 1976-1993.
Lawrence Livermore Laboratory, nuclear space power systems, nuclear and chemical
engineering, 1959-1977.
Bechtel Corporation, nuclear reactor design, 1983-1984.
Science Applications Inc., nuclear fuel cycles and radioactive waste management, 1977, 1989.
Rockwell Hanford OperationsAVestinghouse Hanford Operations, committee to evaluate the
project to dispose of commercial high-level radioactive waste in basalt, 1986.
Battelle Pacific Northwest Laboratory, radioactive waste management, 1985-1988.
Atomics International, design and safety analysis of fast-breeder reactors, 1965-1969.
299
Thermo Electron Corporation, thermionic energy conversion, 1960-72.
R&D Associates, direct energy conversion in a nuclear reactor, 1965-1968.
Teknekron Corporation, nuclear and fossil fuel cycles, environmental control, nuclear plant
safety, 1978.
S. Cohen & Associates, radioactive waste management, 1988, 1991, 1997.
Crystal Energy Corporation, enhanced combustion systems, 1989-90.
Oak Ridge Associated Universities, nuclear facility safety, service to DOE, 1989.
Chemnuclear Corporation, radioactive waste management, 1985.
U.S. Federal District Court, Fifth District, Yakima, Washington, Scientific Master of the Court
concerning radioactive releases from the U.S. Government operations at Hanford, Washington,
1994.
300
APPENDIX E
July 2001
Thomas H. Pigford
LIST OF PUBLICATIONS
Books
M. Benedict, T. H. Pigford, "Nuclear Chemical Engineering", New York: McGraw-Hill, 1958.
M. Benedict, T. H. Pigford and H.W. Levi, "Nuclear Chemical Engineering", Second Edition, New
York: McGraw-Hill, 1981.
Reports and Journal Publications
1 . T.H. Pigford, "Study of the Behavior of Clouds of Contaminants in the Lower Atmosphere in the
K-25 Area," MIT Report K-904, April 1952.
2. T.H. Pigford, "Explosion and Detonation Properties ofMixtures ofHydrogen and Oxygen and Water
Vapor," ORNL 1322(1952).
3. M. Benedict, T.H. Pigford, R. Bakal, J.N. Addoms, and W. Bowman, "Engineering Analysis ofNon-
Aqueous Fluid Fuel Reactors," Reactor Science and Technology 4, 109-131 (1954).
4. T.H. Pigford, M. Troost, J.R. Powell, and M. Benedict, "Neutron Lifetimes and Void Coefficients
for Research Reactors," A.l.Ch.E. 2, 219 (1956).
5. M. Benedict and T. H. Pigford, "Nuclear Chemical Engineering," McGraw-Hill Book Company
(1957).
6. T.H. Pigford and M. Benedict, "Fuel
Cycles in Single Region Thermal Reactors," Chem. Eng.
Progress 53, 96-104 (Part I) and 145-151 (Part II) (1957).
7. T.H. Pigford, S. Bemsen, R. H. Howard, and R. Wallace, "The Marine Gas-Cooled Reactor
Program," Proc. Oak Ridge Symp. on Gas-Cooled Reactors (1958).
8. T.H. Pigford, M. Benedict, R. Shanstrom, C.N. Loomis, and R. Van Ommeslaghe, "Fuel
Cycles in
Single-Region thermal Power Reactors," Proc. of Second Int. Conf. on the Peaceful Uses ofAtomic
Energy 13, (1958).
9. D.A. Jenkins, K.R. Van Howe, and T. H. Pigford, "Effect of Temperatures on Uranium-Thorium
Fueling, "Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc. 3 No.2, 400 (1960).
10. A.C. Jones, J.S. Martinez, T.H. Pigford, and A.J. Kirschbaum, "Angular Distribution of Neutrons
from a Graphite Surface, "Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc. 3, No. 2, 466 (1960).
11. J.S. Martinez, T.H. Pigford, and A.J. Kirschbaum, "Neutron Self-Shielding in Slab Absorbers,
"Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc. 4, No. 1, 156 (1961)
301
12. J.S. Martinez, T.H. Pigford, and A.J. Kirschbaum, "The
Angular Distribution Shift Effect, "Trans.
Am. Nuc. Soc. 4, No. 2, 283 (1961).
13. R. Shaked, T.H. Pigford, D.R. Olander, "Calculation of the Fractional Release of Fission Gas from
Solid Specimens During Post-Irradiation Anneal Experiments," Trans. Am. Nucl. Soc. 6, No.l,
(1963).
14. H. Shaked, T.H. Pigford, D.R. Olander, "Diffusion ofXe- 1 33 in Uranium Monocarbide, "Trans. Am.
Nuc. Soc. 6, No. 1, 131-132 (1963).
15. J.R.L. deLadonchamps and T.H. Pigford, "Effective Concentration in Lumped Fuel For Reactivity
Lifetime Analysis, "Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 6, No. 2, 269-270 (1973).
16. J.R.L. deLadonchamps and T.H. Pigford, "Effects of Flux Changes Upon Reactivity Lifetime and
Bumup, "Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc. 6, No. 2, 270-271 (1973).
1 7. F. Rufeh, T.H. Pigford and D.R. Olander, "The
Solubility of Helium in UO,," Trans. Am. Nucl. Soc.
7, No. 1 90-91, (1964).
18. S.D. Lowe, T.H. Pigford, and P.L. Chambre ,
"Release of Fission Gas by Simultaneous Diffusion
and Evaporation," Trans., Am. Nuc. Soc., 7, No.l, 95-96 (1964).
19. F.Rufeh, T.H. Pigford, and D.R. Olander, "The
Solubility of Helium in UO,," Nucl. Sci. and Engr.
23335-338(1965).
20. H. Shaked, T.H. Pigford, and D.R. Olander, "Diffusion of Xenon in Uranium Monocarbide," Nucl.
Sci. and Engr. 29 122-130 (1967).
21. D.R. Koenig and T.H. Pigford, "Work Function and Cesium Desorption Energies for Planar
Tungsten Single Crystals," Proc. of M.I.T. Conference on Physical Electronics, March, 1966.
22. D.R. Koenig and T.H. Pigford, "Work Function Depression and Surface lomzation for Planar (100)
Tungsten Exposed to Cesium, "Proc. of M.I.T. Conference on Physical Electronics, March, 1966.
23. R. Wichner and T.H. Pigford, "Work Functions of Monocrystalline and Polycrystalline Rhenium,"
Proc. of the 1966 IEEE Thermionic Conversion Specialist Conference, Houston, Nov. 1966.
24. T.H. Pigford and J.B. Dunlay, "Thermoelectric Fuel Element, "U.S. Patent No. 3, 282, 741, Nov. 1,
1966.
25. P.L. Chambre ,
L.M. Grossman, T.H. Pigford, L. Ruby, V.E. Schrock, and H.P. Smith, "Berkeley
Kinetic Studies, "BNL Conference on Nuclear Kinetics, 1967.
26. T.H. Pigford, "Nuclear Reactor Systems and Containment," Conference on Prestressed Concrete
Nuclear Reactor Structures, Berkeley, 1968.
27. E.A. Guignard and T.H. Pigford, "Effect of Diode Geometry on Saturated Ion Current," Proc. 1 968
IEEE Thermionic Conversion Specialist Conf., 247-253 (1968).
28. B.E. Thinger, T.H. Pigford, D. Lieb, and F. Rufeh, "Cesiated Work Functions of 0001 Rhenium,"
Proc. 1969 IEEE Thermionic Conversion Specialist Conf., (1969).
302
29. B.E. Thinger and T.H. Pigford, "Performance Characteristics of a 0001 Rhenium Thermionic
Converter," Proc. 1969 IEEE Thermionic Conversion Specialist Conf. (1969).
30. C. Wang, D. Lieb, and T. H. Pigford, "Extended Space Charge Theory in the Emitter Sheath," Proc.
1969 IEEE Thermionic Conversion Specialist Conf. (1969).
3 1 . J.C. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "An
Analytical Extension ofthe Bethe-Tait Model for Zoned Fueling and
Cylindrical Cores," Trans. ANS, 12, 917-8 (1969).
32. J.C. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Analytical Estimate of Doppler-Controlled Energy Release in a Fast
Reactor Disassembly Transient," Trans. NAS, 12, 2, 918-9 (1969).
33. J.C. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Effect of Variable Fuel Density in a Disassembly Transient, "Trans.
ANS, 12, 2, 919-20(1969).
34. J.C. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Effect ofCore-Zoning on Energy Release in a Fast Reactor Disassembly
Transient," Trans. ANS, 13, 1, 366 (1970).
35. T.H. Pigford, "Oxygen Effects in Cesium Thermionic Diodes," Thermo Electron Report, (NASA
NAS 3-14413), 1969.
36. B. Gunther, D. Lieb, F.Rufeh, and T.H. Pigford, "Cesium Solutions as a Source of Cesium and
Oxygen," Proc. 1970 Thermionic Specialists Conf. (1970).
37. D. Lieb, F. Rufeh, K. Stahlkopf, and T. H. Pigford, "The Formation of Metal-Oxygen Compounds
for Additive Thermionic Converters," Proc. 1971 Thermionic Specialists Conf. (1971).
38. T.H. Pigford, "Protection of the Public from Radioactivity Produced in Nuclear Power Reactors,"
IEEE Trans, on Nucl. Sci. 19, 1, 15-26 (1972).
39. J.C. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Explosive Disassembly of Fast Reactors," Nucl. Sci. and Engr. 48, (1),
28-44(1972).
40. T.H. Pigford, M.J. Keaton, B.J. Mann, "Fuel
Cycles for Electrical Power Generation," Teknekron
Report No. EED 101 (EPA Contract No. 68-01-0561), (1973).
41. R. Gavankar, P. Durbin, T.H. Pigford, "A Basis for Assessment of Radiation Risks for a
Hypothetical Release of Plutonium Dioxide from a Fast Reactor Accident," Proc. Topical Meeting
on Fast Breeder Reactor Safety, Amer. Nuc. Soc., April 2-4, 1974.
42. H. Sekimoto and T. H. Pigford, "A New Method for Optimizing In-Core Fuel Management," Trans.
Am. Nucl. Soc. 18, 137-138 (1974).
43. H. Sekimoto and T.H. Pigford, "A New Method for Calculating Space-Dependent Burnup," Trans.
Am. Nucl. Soc. 18, 137-138 (1974).
44. T.H. Pigford, "Radioactivity in Plutonium, Americium, and Curium in Nuclear Reactor Fuel,"
Conference on Environmental Aspects of Nuclear Power Generation, University of California
(Engineering Extension), Sept. 1973.
45. T.H. Pigford, "Radioactivity in Plutonium, Americium, and Curium in Nuclear Reactor Fuel,"
Energy Policy Project, Ford Foundation, June 1974.
303
46. J.T. Ward and T.H. Pigford, "A Dose Rate Kernel for Air Scattered Gamma Rays," Trans. Am. Nucl.
Soc.i9, (1974).
47. Thomas H. Pigford, "Environmental Aspects of Nuclear Energy Production," Annual Reviews -
Nuclear Sci. 24, 1 80- 1 94 ( 1 974).
48. T.H. Pigford, R.T. Cantrell, K.P. Ang, and B.J. Mann, Fuel Cycle for 1000 Mw High Temperature
Gas Cooled Reactor. EPA Contract 68-01-0561, Teknekron EEED 102 (1975).
49. T.H. Pigford, R.T. Cantrell, and K.P. Ang, Fuel Cycle for 1000 Mw Uranium-Plutonium Water
Reactor. EPA Contract 68-01-0561. Teknekron EEED- 103 (1975).
50. T.H. Pigford and K.P. Ang, "The Plutonium Fuel Cycles," Second Annual Sciences Symposium
"Plutonium-Health Implications for Man, "Los Alamos ( 1
974) Health Physics, Vol. 29, pp 45 1 -468,
October, 1975, Pergamon Press.
51. T.H. Pigford, "The
Analysis ofThe Cost ofElectrical Energy from Nuclear Power Plants," UCB-NE
3008 (Rev. 2), Sept. 1976.
52. T.H. Pigford and J. Choi, "Effect of Fuel Cycle Alternatives on Nuclear Waste Management," Proc.
Symposium on Waste Management. ERDA CONF-76 1 020 October, 1 976.
53. T.H. Pigford and J. Choi, "Transmutation ofRadionuclides in Power Reactors," UCB-NE 3241 ,
Dec.
1976.
54. T.H. Pigford, "Fuel
Cycle Alternatives for Nuclear Power Reactors," I EC Fundamentals. 16. No. 1 ,
75-81, February, 1977.
55. T.H. Pigford, "Nuclear Power Fuel Cycles," UCB-NE 3224, March 1977.
56. T.H. Pigford, "Start
Up of First-Generation Fast Breeders with Plutonium or Enriched Uranium,"
UCB-NE 3240, March, 1977.
57. T.H. Pigford, "The
Possibility ofNuclear Proliferation with Pa-231," UCB-NE-3238, March, 1977.
58. "Report to the American Physical Society by the Study Group on Nuclear Fuel Cycles and Waste
Management," Rev. Mod. Phvs. 50, No.l, Part KK, Jan., 1978 (with L.C. Hebel, E.O. Christensen,
F. A. Donath, W.E. Falconer, L.J. Lidofsky, E.J. Moniz, T.H. Moss, R.L. Pigford, G.I. Rochlm, R.H.
Silsbee, M.E. Wrenn).
59. T.H. Pigford, C.S. Yang, M. Maeda, "Denatured Fuel Cycles for Safeguards Control," Trans. ANS
27, 187, November, 1977.
60. T.H. Pigford and J.S. Choi, "Actinide Transmutation in Fission Reactors," Trans. ANS 27, 450
November, 1977.
61 . T.H. Pigford and J.S. Choi, "Economics of Fuel Cycle Options in a PWR," Trans. ANS 27, 463,
November 1977.
62. T.H. Pigford and J.S. Choi "Economics of Fuel Cycle Options in a Pressurized Water Reactor,"
UCB-NE-3242, November, 1977.
304
63. T.H. Pigford, "Properties of Radioactive Wastes to be Emplaced in a Geologic Repository," UCB-
NE-33 17, March, 1978.
64. T.H. Pigford, "Radioactivity in Stored Coal Ash and In Nuclear Power Waste," UCB-NE-3323,
April, 1978.
65. T.H. Pigford, "Properties of Class A Radioactive Wastes: A Review of Adequacy of Available
Information for A Generic Environmental Impact Statement for Waste Management in a Geologic
Repository," UCB-NE-3297, January 1978.
66. T.H. Pigford, "Thermoelasticity for Isotropic Homogenous Solids," UCB-NE-2992, March, 1974.
67. T.H. Pigford, C.S. Yang, M. Maeda, "Denatured Fuel Cycles for Safeguards Control," Nuclear
Technology. November. 1978.
68. T.H. Pigford, "Radioactivity in Stored Coal Ash and in Nuclear Power Waste," Trans. ANS,
November, 1978.
69. T.H. Pigford and C.S. Yang, "Thorium Fuel Cycle Alternative," UCB-NE-3227, EPA 5 1 0/6-78-008,
November, 1978.
70. T.H. Pigford, "Radioactivity in Stored Coal Ash and in Nuclear Power Waste," UCB-NE-3323,
March, 1978.
71 . T.H. Pigford, "Fuel
Cycle Alternatives for Nuclear Power Reactors," Forefront. Research in the
College of Engineering, University of California, Berkeley, 1976/77.
72. "Effect of Source Boundary Conditions in Predicting the Migration of Radionuclides Through
Geologic Media," (with M. Harada, F. Iwamoto), Trans. Amer. Nuc. Soc. 33, 383, 1979.
73 . "The
Superposition Solution ofthe Transport ofa Radionuclide Chain Through a Sorbing Medium,"
(with M. Foglia, M. Harada, P.L. Chambre1
), Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc.. 33, 384, 1979.
74. "Migration Behavior of the U Th Ra Decay Chain," (with K. Higashi, M. Harada, F. Iwamoto),
Trans. Amer. Nuc. Soc.. 33, 386 1979.
75. "Analytical Models for Migration of Radionuclides in Geologic Sorbing Media," (withK. Higashi),
Japan Jour. Nucl. Tech.. 44. 201. 1979.
76. T.H. Pigford, "Hazards from Deep Geologic Disposal of Radioactive Waste," Forefront. 1978-79.
77. "Report of the President s Commission on the Accident at the Three Mile Island," (with J.G.
Kemeny, B. Babitt, P.E. Haggerty, C. Lewis, P.A. Marks, C.B. Marrett, L. McBride, H.C.
McPherson, R. W. Peterson, T.B. Taylor, A. D. Trunk), Washington, D.C.
78. "Migration ofRadionuclides Through Sorbing Media: Analytical Solutions-I," withM. Harada, P.L.
Chambre ,
M. Foglia, K. Higashi, F. Iwamoto, D. Leung, LBL- 10500, Lawrence Berkeley Lab.,
February, 1980.
79. "Analytical Models for Migration of Radionuclides in Geologic Sorbing Media," with K. Higashi,
Jour. Nucl. Sci. & Tech. U, 46-55, September, 1980.
305
80. T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre1
,
M. Albert, M. Foglia, M. Harada, F. Iwamoto, T. Kanki, D. Leung, S.
Masuda, S. Muraoka, and D. Ting, "Migration ofRadionuclides Through Sorbing Media: Analytical
Solutions-II," LBL-1 1616 (Vols. I and II), Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, October, 1980.
81 . T.H. Pigford and P.L. Chambre , "Analytical Models of Radionuclide Transport," Proceedings of
the 1980 National Waste Terminal Storage Program Information Meeting, ONWI-212, December
1980.
82. "Solubility Limited Migration of a Radionuclide Chain Through a Geologic Medium," with F.
Iwamoto, T. Kanki, M. Harada, P.L. Chambre ,
D. Leung, Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc. 38. 161 -1 63, June
1981.
83. "Hydrogeologic Transport with Equilibrium Chemical Species of Radionuclides," with T. Kanki,
F. Iwamoto, P.L. Chambre .Trans. Amer. Nuc. Soc. 38, 163 164-166, June, 1981.
84. "Migration of Long Actinide Chains in Geologic Media," with D. Ting and P.L. Chambre ,
Trans.
Amer. Nuc. Soc. 8 38, 163-164, June 1981.
85. P.L. Chambre ,
D.K. Ting, T.H. Pigford, "Two-Dimensional Migration of Long Actinide Chains
Through Geologic Media," Trans. Amer. Nuc. Soc.. 39, 154, 1981.
86. T.Kanki, A. Fujita, P.L. Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford, "Radionuclide Transport Through Fractured Rock,"
Trans Am. Nuc. Soc.. 39, 152, 1981.
87. T.H. Pigford and S. Masuda, "The
Possibility of Geologic Disposal of High Level Waste," Nuclear
Engineering. 27. 31. 1981.
88. T. Kanki, P.L. Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford, "Hydrogeologic Transport of Decay Chains with
Nonequilibrium Chemical Species," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 40. 356, 1982.
89. J. Choi and T. H. Pigford, "Water Dilution Volumes for High-Level Wastes," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc.
39, 1981.
T. H. Pigford and S. Masuda, "Hazards From Disposal ofRadioactive Waste," Nuclear Engineering
(Japan), 27, No. 2, 1981.
90. T. H. Pigford, "Migration of Brine Inclusions in Salt." Nuclear Technology. 56, 93-101, 1982.
91 .
"Solubility-Limited Dissolution Rate in Groundwater," (with P.L. Chambre and S. Zavoshy), Trans.
Amer. Nuc. Soc.. Vol. 40, 1982, p. 153.
92. Solubility-Limited Fractional Dissolution Rate of Vitrified Waste in Groundwater" (with P.L.
Chambre and S. Zavoshy), Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc.. 43, 1 1 1, 1982.
93. "Cumulative Release of Radionuclide Chains From a Geologic Repository," (with P.L. Chambre
and A. Fujita), Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc.. Vol. 40, p. 58, 1982.
94. "Transport ofChemical Species in Sorbing Media Accompanied by Chemical Reactions" (with P.L.
Chambre and T. Kanki). 47th Annual Meeting of Soc. Chem. Eng.. Japan. E308. Vol. 167, 1982.
95. "Geologic Disposal of Radioactive Waste," Chem. Engr. Prog.. Vol. 78, pp. 18-26, March 1982.
96. "The
Diagnostics of Nuclear Safety," Proc. INPO Plant Managers Workshop. Atlanta, 1982.
306
97. "Radionuclide Migration in a Two-Dimensional Flow Field," (with P.L. Chambre and O.K. Ting),
Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc.. Vol. 40. pp 156- 157 June 1982.
98. Chambre , P.L.,H.C. Lung, T.H. Pigford, "Mass Transport from a Waste Emplaced in Backfill and
Rock," Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc.. 44, 1 1 2, 1 983 .
99. Glennan, T.K., F. Baranowski, W.B. Behnke, M. Benedict, R.E. Hollingsworth, T.H. Pigford, W.J.
Howard, "Report of the New Production Reactor Concept and Site Selection Advisory Panel,"
Report to Secretary D.P. Hodel, U.S. Department of Energy, November 15, 1982.
1 00. Kobayashi, R., Y. Sato, T. Kanki, P.L. Chambre , and T.H. Pigford, "Solubility-Limited Transport
of Radionuclides Through Fractured Rock," Transl Amer. Nucl. Soc.. 4A 1 13, 1983.
101. Pigford, T.H., "Derivation ofEPA Proposed Standard for Geologic Isolation ofHigh-Level Waste,"
UCB-NE-4006, University of California Berkeley, 1981.
102 Chambre ,
P. L., T. H. Pigford, and S. Zavoshy, "Solubility-Limited Dissolution Rate in
Groundwater," Trans. American Nuclear Society 40: 153, 1982.
103. Chambre , P.L., H.C. Lung, T.H. Pigford, "Mass
Transport from a Waste Emplaced in Backfill and
Rock," Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc., 44, 1 12, 1983.
104. Chambre , P.L., T.H. Pigford, "Prediction of Waste Performance in a Geologic Repository," The
Scientific Basis for Nuclear Waste Management VII, Materials Research Society Symposia
Proceedings, 26, 985-1008, Boston, 1983. Also in P.L. Hoffman (ed.), "The
Technology of High-
Level Nuclear Waste Disposal," 3, 93, Battelle, 1987.
105. Chambre , P.L., W.J. Williams, C.L. Kim, T.H. Pigford, "Time-Temperature Dissolution and
Radionuclide Transport." Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc.. 46, 131-132, 1984 (UCB-NE-4033).
1 06. Chambre , P.L., H. Lung, T.H. Pigford, "Time-Dependent Mass Transfer Through Backfill, Trans.
Amer. Nucl. Soc..46. 132-133, 1984 (UCB-NE-4040).
1 07. Pigford, T.H., "Technical Analysis ofthe NRC Staffs Proposed Final Rule for the Disposal ofHigh-
Level Radioactive Wastes in Geologic Repositories: Technical Criteria," UCB-NE-4025, University
of California, Berkeley, 1981.
108. Pigford, T.H., Reply to "Remarks on Migration of Brine Inclusions in Salt ,"
Nuclear Technology,
63, 509-510, December, 1983.
1 09. Pigford, T.H., P.L. Chambre ,
Y. Sato, A. Fujita, H. Lung, S. Zavoshy, R. Kobayashi, "Performance
Analysis ofConceptual Geologic Repositories," UCB-NE-403 1 , University ofCalifornia, Berkeley,
1981.
1 1 0. Pigford, T.H. "The National Research Council Study of the Isolation System for Geologic Disposal
or Radioactive Wastes," (UCB-NE-4042, LBL- 17248), The Scientific Basis for Nuclear Waste
Management VII, Materials Research Society Symposium Proceedings, 26. 461-486, Boston, 1983.
111. Pigford, T.H. "Geologic Disposal of Radioactive Waste -
1983," LBL-16795, October, 1983.
1 12. Sato, Y., A. Fujita, P.L. Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford, "Effect of Solubility-Limited Dissolution on the
Migration of Radionuclide Chains," Trans. Amer. Nuc. Soc.. 43, 64, 1982.
307
113. H.C. Lung, P.L. Chambre
1
, T.H. Pigford, "Nuclide Migration in Backfill With a Non-Linear Sorption
Isotherm." Trans. Amer. Nuc. Soc.. 45. 107, 1983.
1 14. S.J. Zavoshy, P.L. Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford, "Waste Package Mass Transfer Rates in a Geologic
Repository," Trans. Amer. Nuc. Soc., 47, 89-90, 1984.
115. Pigford, T.H. ,
J.O. Blomeke, T.L. Brekke, G.A. Cowan, W.E. Falconer, N.J. Grant, J. R. Johnson,
J.M. Matuszek, R.R. Parizek, R.L. Pigford, D.E. White, "A
Study of the Isolation System for
Geologic Disposal ofRadioactive Wastes," National Academy Press, Washington, D.C., April 1983.
116. Pigford, T.H., "Long-Term Environmental Impacts of Geologic Repositories," International
Conference on Radioactive Waste Management, Seattle, WA, IAEA-CN-43/185, International
Atomic Energy Agency, May, 1983.
1 1 7. Pigford, T.H., and B.J. Mann, "Technical Analysis of the EPA Staffs Proposed Draft Standard for
the Geologic disposal of Radioactive Wastes," UCB-NE-4024, University of California, Berkeley,
1983.
118. Pigford, T.H., P.L. Chambre ,
S. Zavoshy, "Effect of Repository Heating on Dissolution of Glass
Waste." Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc.. 44 115, 1983.
1 19. Chambre , P.L., T.H. Pigford, Y. Sato, A. Fujita, H. Lung, S. Zavoshy, R. Kobayashi, "Analytical
Performance Models," LBL- 14842, 1982.
120. C.L. Kim, S.J. Zavoshy, P.L. Chambre , T.H. Pigford, "Near-Field and Far-Field Mass Transfer in
a Geologic Repository," Trans. Amer. Nuc. Soc., 47, 87-89, 1984.
121. Pigford. T.H., S.J. Zavoshy, P.L.Chambre ,
"Mass Transfer in a Geologic Environment," Trans. Am.
Nucl. Soc., Vol. 47, 1984.
122. Kim, C.L. Chambre ,
and T.H. Pigford, "Radionuclide Release Rates as Afffected by Container
Failure," Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc., 50, 136-137, 1985.
1 23. Kang, C.H., P.L.Chambre
1
,
and T.H. Pigford, "One-Dimensional Advective Transport with Variable
Dispersion," Amer. Nucl. Soc., 50, 140-141, 1985.
124. Ahn, J.P. Chambre ,
and T.H. Pigford, "Transport in Multiply Fractured Rock by Superposition,"
Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc., 50, 139-140, 1985.
1 25. T.H. Pigford, P.L.Chambre ,
Y. Sato, A. Fujita, H. Lung, S. Zavoshy, R. Kobayashi, "Performance
Analysis of Conceptual Geologic Repositories," UCB-NE-4031, University of California, 1981.
126. T.H. Pigford, "Geologic Disposal of Radioactive Waste -
1983," LBL-16795, October 1983.
1 27. T.H. Pigford, and B.J. Mann, "Technical Analysis of the EPA Staffs Proposed Draft Standard for
the Geologic Disposal of Radioactive Wastes," UCB-NE-4024, University of California, Berkeley
1983.
128. J. Ahn, P.L. Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford, "Nuclide Migration Through a Planar Fissure with Matrix
Diffusion," Report LBL- 19429, September 1984.
308
129. T.H. Pigford, J.A. Lieberman, S.N. Davis, D.R. F. Harleman, R.L. Keeney, D.C. Kocher,
D.Langmuir, R.B.Lyon, W.W. Owens, W.W.L. Lee, "Performance Assessment National Review
Group," Weston Report RFW-CRWM-85-01, February 1985.
130. T.H. Pigford, "Comments on Review of Mass-Transfer Theory in Waste Package Modeling,
1 "
Report UCB-NE-4050, LBL-18223, August 1984.
131. T.H. Pigford, Response to B.L. Cohen s Criticism of the Report: A Study of the Isolation System
for Geologic Disposal of Radioactive Wastes , Nat. Acad. Press, 1983", Presented to the Board on
Radioactive Waste Management, National Research Council, September 1984.
1 32. P.L. Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Comments on Review ofMass-Transfer Theory in Waste-Package
Modeling ",
Report UCB-NE- 18233, August 1984.
133. S.J. Zavoshy, P.L.Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford, "Waste Package Mass Transfer Rates in a Geologic
Repository," Prepublication report UCB-NE-4049, June 1984.
134. C.L. Kim, P.L.Chambre , T.H. Pigford, "Radionuclide Release Rates as Affected by Container
Failure Probability," Report LBL- 19851, June 1985.
135. J.P. Ahn, P.L. Chambre , and T.H. Pigford, "Transport in Multiply Fractured Rock by
Superposition," Report LBL- 19850, June 1985.
136. C.H. Kang, P.L. Chambre ,
and T.H.Pigford, "One-Dimensional Advective Transport with Variable
Dispersion," Report LBL- 19849, June 1985.
137. T.H. Pigford and P.L.Chambre "Closed-System Postulates for Predicting Waste-Package
Performance in a Geologic Repository," Report LBL-21277, March 1986.
138. W.L. L. Lee, M.M. Sadeghi, P.L. Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Waste-Package Release Rates for
Site Suitability Studies" LBL-30707, 1992, 22 pages.
1 39. T. H. Pigford, "Environmental Effects of Waste Disposal," NCC News, 6-8, 1989.
140. W.B. Light, P.L. Chambre ,
W.W.L.Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Transport of Gaseous C-14 from a
Repository in Unsaturated Rock," LBL-29744, 1990, 33 pages.
141. W.W. L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Data
Package for Engineered Barrier System Performance
Assessment Sensitivity Analysis", LBL-29380, 1990, 1 1
pages.
142. M.J. Apted, W.J. O Connell, K.H. Lee, A.T. Maclntyre, T.S. Ueng, T.H. Pigford and W.W. L. Lee,
"Preliminary Calculations of Release Rates of Tc-99, 1-129, Cs-135, & Np-237 from Spent Fuel in
a Tuff Repository" WG2-5-90, LBL-31069, 36 pages.
143. W.B. Light, E.D. Zwahlen, T.H. Pigford, P.L.Chambre
1
and W.W. L. Lee, "C-14 Release and
Transport from a Nuclear Waste Repository in an Unsaturated Medium," LBL-28923, 32 pages
1 44. E.D. Zwahlen, W.W.L. Lee, T.H. Pigford and P.L.Chambre ,
"A Gas-Phase Source Term for Yucca
Mountain," Technical Note UCB-NE-4167, 1990
145. T.H. Pigford and W.W.L. Lee, "Mass Transport in Porous Media," UCB-NE-4 165, 101 pages, 1990.
309
146. "MM. Sadeghi, T.H. Pigford, P.L.Chambre and W.W. L. Lee, "Equations for Predicting Release
Rates for Waste Packages in Unsaturated Tuff," LBL-29254, 1990, 20 pages
147. M.M. Sadeghi, T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre and W.W.L.Lee, "Prediction of Release Rates for a
Waste Repository at Yucca Mountain," LBL-27767, 1989, 28 pages
148. P.L.Chambre , W.W.L.Lee, W.B. Light, and T.H. Pigford, "Transport of Soluble Species in Backfill
and Rock, LBL-27579, UCB-NE-4161, 1992, 17 pages
149. E.D. Zwahlen, W.W.L.Lee, T.H. Pigford and P.L.Chambre1
, "Some Studies of Redox Fronts in
Nuclear Waste Repositories," LBL-27580, UCB-NE-4162, 1989.
1 50. J.Ahn, C.L. Kim, P.L.Chambre , T.H. Pigford, and W.W.L. Lee, "Intermediate-Field Transport of
Contaminants: Multiple Areal Sources in Fractured Rock and Point Sources in Porous Rock", LBL-
27338, UCB-NE-4154, 1989, 11 pages.
151. T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre and W.W.L. Lee, "A Review ofNear-Field Mass Transfer in Geologic
Disposal Systems" LBL-27045, UCB-NE-4145, 1989, 96 pages.
152. Y. Hwang, W.W.L. Lee, P.L.Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Mass
Transport in Salt Repositories:
Steady-State Transport Through Interbeds", Report LBL-26704, UCB-NE-4136, 1989, 13 pages
153. Y. Hwang, W.W.L. Lee, P.L.Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Mass
Transport in Salt Repositories:
Transient Diffusion into Interbeds" Report LBL-26703, UCB-NE-4137, 1989, 17 pages
1 54. J. Ahn, P.L.Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Transient Diffusion of Radionuclides from a Cylindrical
Waste Solid into Fractured Porous Rock", Report UCB-NE-4126, LBL-25766, 1990, 28 pages
155. W.B. Light, P.L.Chambre
1
,
T.H. Pigford and W.W.L.Lee, "The Effect of Precipitation on
Contaminant Dissolution and Transport: Analytic Solutions", Report UCB-NE-4127, LBL-25769,
1988, 17 pages
1 56. Y. Hwang, P.L. Chambre , T.H. Pigford and W.W.L. Lee, "Pressure-driven Brine Migration in a Salt
Repository", Report UCB-NE-4128, LBL-25768, 1988, 28 pages
157. Y. Hwang, W.W.L.Lee, P.L.Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Release Rates in Salt by Diffusion",
Report UCB-NE-4129, LBL-25767, 1988, 14 pages
158. W.W.L. Lee, T.H. Pigford and P.L. Chambre ,
"Release Rates of Soluble Species at Yucca
Mountain: a Preliminary Mass-Transfer Analysis," Technical Note UCB-NE-4131, LBL-25870,
1988
159. S.J. Zavoshy, P.L. Chambre , J.Ahn, T.H. Pigford and W.W.L. Lee, "Steady-State Radionuclide
Transfer from a Cylinder Intersected by a Fissure", Report LBL-23986, 1988, 33 pages
160. H.C. Lung, P.L.Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford and W.W.L.Lee, "Transport of Radioactive Decay Chains
in Finite and Semi-Infinite Porous Media," Report LBL-23987, 1987, 93 pages
161. J.Ahn, P.L. Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford, and W.W.L.Lee, "Radionuclide Dispersion from Multiple Patch
Sources into a Rock Fracture," Report LBL-23425, 1987, 37 pages
1 62. P.L. Chambre , W.W.L.Lee, C.L. Kim and T.H. Pigford, Steady-State and Transient Radionuclide
Transport Through Penetrations in Nuclear Waste Containers," Report LBL-2 1 806, 1 986, 37 pages
310
163. J. Ahn, P.L. Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Radionuclide Migration Through Fractured Rock: Effect
of Multiple Fractures and Two-Member Decay Chains," Report LBL-21 121, 1985, 37 pages
164. J. Ahn, P.L.Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Nuclide Migration Through a Planar Fissure with Matrix
Diffusion", Report LBL- 19429, 1985, 65 pages.
165. J.A. Lieberman, S.N. Davis, D.R.F. Harleman, R.L. Keeney, D.C. Kocher, D. Langmuir, R.B. Lyon,
W.W. Owens, T.H. Pigford and W.W.L. Lee, "Performance Assessment National Review Group",
Weston Report RFW-CRWM-85-01, 1985, 1 14 pages
1 66. P.L. Chambre1
,
T.H. Pigford, W.W.L.Lee, J. Ahn, S. Kajiwara, C.L. Kim, H. Kimura, H. Lung, W.J.
Williams and S.J. Zavoshy, "Mass Transfer and Transport in a Geologic Environment", Report LBL-
19430, 1985, 193 pages
1 67. P.L. Chambre1
,
T.H. Pigford, A. Fujita, T. Kanki, A. Kobayashi, H. Lung, D. Ting, Y. Sato, and S.J.
Zavoshy, "Analytical Performance Models", Report LBL-14842, 1982, 41 1
pages
1 68. T.H. Pigford. P.L. Chambre1
,
M. Albert, M. Foglia, M. Harada, F. Iwamoto, T.Kanki, D. Leung, S.
Masuda, S. Muraoka and D. Ting, "Migration ofRadionuclides Through Sorbing Media: Analytical
Solutions - II"
Report LBL- 1 1616, 1980, 416 pages.
169. M. Harada, P.L. Chambre ,
M. Foglia, K. Higashi, F. Iwamoto, D. Leung, T.H. Pigford and D. Ting,
"Migration of Radionuclides Through Sorbing Media: Analytical Solutions-I", Report LBL-10500,
1980. 233 pages
170. T.H. Pigford, "The Role of Performance Assessment in Validation and Public Acceptance,"
Proceedings ofthe 1 992 International High-Level Radioactive Waste Management Conference, Las
Vegas, 1992
171. J. Hirschfelder, W.W.L.Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Effects of Actinide Burning on Risk from Geologic
Repositories," Paper accepted for the American Institute of Chemical Engineers 1992 Summer
National Conference, Minneapolis, August 1992, LBL-32061
1 72. J. Hirschfelder, P.L. Chambre ,
W.W.L. Lee, T.H. Pigford and M.M. Sadeghi, "Effects of Actinide
Burning on Waste Disposal at Yucca Mountain," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 64, 111, 1991
1 73. Y. Hwang, P.L.Chambre ,
W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "A Bi-modal Filtration Coefficient for
Radio-colloid Migration in Porous Media," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 64, 160, 1991
1 74. W. Zhou, P.L. Chambre , W.W.L.Lee, and T.H. Pigford, "Analysis ofEvaporation in Nuclear Waste
Boreholes in Unsaturated Rock," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 64, 164, 1991
175. E.D. Zwahlen, P.L. Chambre , W.W.L.Lee, and T.H. Pigford, "Analysis of Gaseous Contaminant
Discharge from a Nuclear Waste Container," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 64, 165, 1991.
1 76. T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre and W.W.L.Lee, "A Review ofNear-Field Mass Transfer in Geologic
Disposal Systems," Radioactive Waste Management at the Nuclear Fuel Cycle, 16, 175-276, 1992.
1 77. Y. Hwang, T.H. Pigford, P.L.Chambre
1
and W.W.L. Lee, "Analysis of Mass Transport in a Nuclear
Waste Repository in Salt," Paper accepted for publication in Water Resources Research, 1 992, LBL-
31849.
311
1 78. J.Ahn, C.L. Kim, P.L. Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford, and W.W.L. Lee, "Intermediate-Field Transport of
Contaminants: Multiple Areal Sources in Fractured Rock and Point Sources in Porous Rock," Waste
Management, 11, 11, 1991.
1 79. M.J. Apted, W.J. O Connell, K.H. Lee, AT. MacIntyre,T.S. Ueng, T.H. Pigford and W.W.L. Lee,
"Preliminary Calculations of Release Rates of Tc-99, 1-129, Cs-135, and Np-237 from Spent Fuel
in a Tuff Repository," Proc. of the 1991 International High-Level Radioactive Waste Management
Conference, Las Vegas, 1080
180. T.H. Pigford, "Reprocessing Incentives for Waste Disposal," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 62, 97, 1990.
181. J.S. Choi and T.H. Pigford, "Fission of Actimdes in a Fast Reactor," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 62, 104,
1990.
1 82. W.B. Light, P.L. Chambre and W.W.L. Lee, "An
Updated Computer Code for Radionuchde Cham
Migration: UCB-NE-10.4," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 62, 95, 1990
183. W. Zhou, P.L. Chambre, T.H. Pigford and W.W.L. Lee, "Heat-Pipe Effect on the Transport of
Gaseous Radionuclides Released from a Nuclear Waste Container," in T.A. Abrajano, Jr. and L.J.
Johnson (eds.). Scientific Basis for Nuclear Waste Management XIV, Pittsburgh, Materials
Research Society, 855, 1991.
1 84. W.B. Light, E.D. Zwahlen, T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre ,
and W.W.L. Lee, "Release and Transport
of Gaseous C-14 from a Nuclear Waste Repository in an Unsaturated Medium," to appear in T.A.
Abrajano, Jr. and L.J. Johnson (eds.), Scientific Basis for Nuclear Waste Management XIV,
Pittsburgh, Materials Research Society, 863, 1991.
185. T.H. Pigford, "Performance of Engineered Barriers," Invited plenary lecture presented at the
International High-Level Radioactive Waste Management Conference, Las Vegas, April 1 990, UCB-
NE-4166.
1 86. A. Ahn, P.L. Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Radionuclide Transfer from Cylindrical Waste Solid into
Fractured Rock," Transactions of the Research Group on Radioactive Waste Management, Atomic
Energy Society of Japan, 11, RWM-8801 1 (in Japanese), 1988.
187. W.B. Light, W.W.L.Lee, T.H. Pigford and P.L. Chambre ,
"Radioactive Colloid Advection in a
Sorbing Porous Medium: Analytic Solution," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 61,81, 1990.
1 88. M.M. Sadeghi, W.W.L.Lee, T.H. Pigford and P.L.Chambre ,
"Release Rates of Radionuclides into
Dripping Ground Water," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 61, 68, 1990.
189. M.M. Sadeghi, W.W.L.Lee, T.H. Pigford and P.L. Chambre , "Diffusive Release of Radionuclides
into Saturated and Unsaturated Tuff," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 61, 70, 1990.
190. M.M. Sadeghi, W.W.L.Lee, T.H. Pigford and P.L. Chambre , "The Effective Diffusion Coefficient
for Porous Rubble," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 61, 67, 1990.
191. E.D. Zwahlen, T.H. Pigford, P.L.Chambre and W.W.L. Lee, "A Gas-Flow Source Term for a
Nuclear Waste Container in an Unsaturated Medium," Proceedings of the International High-Level
Radioactive Waste Management Conference, Las Vegas, 418, 1990.
312
1 92. Y. Hwang, T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre1
and W.W.L. Lee, "Mass
Transport in Bedded Salt and Salt
Interbeds," Proceedings of the International High-Level Radioactive Waste Management
Conference, Las Vegas, 163, 1990.
1 93. M.M. Sadeghi, T.H. Pigford, P.L.Chambre and W.W.L. Lee, "Thermal Analog to Mass Transfer in
Rubble," Eos. 70, 1119, 1989.
194. E.D. Zwahlen, T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre1
and W.W.L. Lee, "Gas Flow In and Out of a Nuclear
Waste Container," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 60, 109, 1989.
1 95. Y. Isayama, W.W.L. Lee, T.H. Pigford and P.L. Chambre , "Isotopic Effects of Solubility-Limited
Mass Transfer," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc. 60, 110, 1989.
196. Y. Hwang, P.L. Chambre . W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Analytic Solution for Pseudo-Colloid
Migration in Fractured Rock, "Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 60, 107, 1989.
1 97. T.H. Pigford, Technical Integration Problems on Waste Package Release Rates and Container Life
for FY-1989, UCB-NE-4152, 1989.
1 98. T.H. Pigford, Technical Integration Problems on Far-Field Transport of Gaseous Radionuclides for
FY-1989, UCB-NE-4152, 1989.
199. T.H. Pigford, Test Problems for Preliminary Performance Assessment of a Waste Repository in
Unsaturated Tuff, UCB-NE-4142, LBL-27060, 1989.
200. W.B. Light, T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre and W.W.L.Lee,
" M
C Transport in a Partially Saturated,
Fractured, Porous Medium," In V.M. Oversby and P.W. Brown (eds.), Scientific Basis for Nuclear
Waste Management XIII, Pittsburgh, Materials Research Society, 761, 1990.
201 . Y. Hwang, T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre and W.W.L. Lee, "Analytic Studies of Colloid Transport,"
in V.M. Oversby and P.W. Brown (eds.), Scientific Basis for Nuclear Waste Management XIII,
Pittsburgh, Materials Research Society, 599, 1990.
202. Y. Hwang, P.L. Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford and W.W.L. Lee, "Brine Migration in a Salt Repository,"
Nuclear Technology, 90, 205, 1990.
203. T.H. Pigford, "Analytical Methods for Predicting Contaminant Transport," In Safety Assessment
of Radioactive Waste Repositories, CEC/IAEA/NEA, 521, 1989.
204. J. Ahn, P.L. Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford and W.W.L.Lee, "Transient Diffusion from a Waste Solid into
Water-Saturated, Porous Rock, in "Safety Assessment of Radioactive Waste Repositories,
CEC/IAEA/NEA, 886, 1989.
205. T.H. Pigford, P.L.Chambre and W.W.L. Lee, "Mass Transfer and Transport in Salt Repositories,"
in Safety Assessment of Radioactive Waste Repositories, CEC/IAEA/NEA, 879, 1989.
206. T.H. Pigford and W.W.L. Lee, "Waste Package Performance in Unsaturated Rock," Proceedings of
FOCUS 89, Nuclear Waste Isolation in the Unsaturated Zone, 145, 1990.
207. W.B. Light, T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre and W.W.L.Lee, "Analytical Models for
M
C Transport in
a Partially Saturated, Fractured Porous Media," Proceedings ofFOCUS 89, Nuclear Waste Isolation
in the Unsaturated Zone, 271, 1990.
313
208. W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Release Rates of Soluble Species at Yucca Mountain," Proceedings
of FOCUS 89, Nuclear Waste Isolation in the Unsaturated Zone, 281, 1990.
209. W.B. Light, P.L. Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford and W.W.L. Lee, "The Effect of Precipitation on
Contaminant Dissolution and Diffusional Transport: Analytic Solutions," Water Resources
Research, 26, 1681, 1990.
210. T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre and W.W.L. Lee, "Predicting the Transport of Contaminants in
Geologic Media," Paper presented at the 5th Topical Meeting on Nuclear Code Development, Japan
Atomic Energy Research Institute, October 18, 1988.
211. W.B. Light, T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre1
and W.W.L. Lee, "An
Analytic Model for
U
C Transport
in Fractured Porous Rock," Eos, 69, 1216, 1988.
212. J.Ahn, P.L.Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Transient Diffusion from a Cylindrical Waste Solid into
Fractured Porous Rock," Radioactive Waste Management and the Nuclear Fuel Cycle, 13, 263,
1989.
213. T.H. Pigford, P.L. Chambre and W.W.L. Lee, "Mass Transfer in Geologic Repositories: Analytic
Studies and Applications," Radioactive Waste Management and the Nuclear Fuel Cycle, 13, 241,
1989.
2 1 4. C.L. Kim, W.B. Light, P.L. Chambre1
,
W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Variable Temperature Effects
on Release Rates of Readily Soluble Nuclides," in Proceedings of SPECTRUM 88, an American
Nuclear Society International Topical Meeting, Pasco, WA, 536, 1988.
215. W.B. Light, P.L. Chambre , W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "The Effect ofa Stationary Precipitation
Front on Nuclide Dissolution and Transport: Analytic Solutions," In Proceedings of SPECTRUM
88, an American Nuclear Society International Topical Meeting, Pasco, WA, 224, 1988.
216. W. Zhou, J. Ahn, W.W.L. Lee, P.L.Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Dissolution/Precipitation ofa Two-
Member Chain at a Dissolving Waste Matrix," In Proceedings of SPECTRUM 88, an American
Nuclear Society International Topical Meeting, Pasco, WA, 227, 1988.
217. J. Ahn, P.L. Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Transient Diffusion from a Waste Solid into Fractured
Porous Rock," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 56, 173, 1988.
218. T.H. Pigford, P.L.Chambre and W.W.L.Lee, "Mass Transfer and Transport in Geologic
Repositories: Analytical Studies and Applications," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 56, 169, 1988.
219. Y. Hwang, P.L. Chambre ,
W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Darcian Brine Migration in Nuclear
Waste Repositories," Eos, 68, 1290, 1987.
220. W.B. Light, P.L.Chambre ,
W.W.L.Lee and T.H. Pigford, "The Effect of a Stationary Precipitation
Front on Contaminant Transport in Porous Media," Eos, 68, 1290, 1987.
22 1 . J. Ahn, P.L. Chambre ,
W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Back Diffusion ofContaminants in Fracture-
Flow Transport," Eos, 68, 1274, 1987.
222. C.H. Kang, P.L. Chambre ,
W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Radionuclide Diffusion Through Porous
Media to a Fracture," Eos. 68, 1274, 1987.
223. T.H. Pigford, "Comments on the AREST Code, Volumes 1 and 2, "LBL-23753, 1987.
314
224. Y. Hwang, P.L. Chambre , W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Pressure-Induced Brine Migration into
an Open Borehole in a Salt Repository," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 55, 133, 1987.
225. Y. Hwang, P.L. Chambre , W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Pressure-Induced Brine Migration in
Consolidated Salt in a Repository," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 55, 132, 1987.
226. P.L. Chambre ,
Y. Hwang, W.W.L.Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Release Rates from Waste Packages in
a Salt Repository," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 55, 131, 1987.
227. C.H. Kang, P.L. Chambre , W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Time-Dependent Nuclide Transport
Through Backfill into a Fracture," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 55, 134, 1987.
228. P.L. Chambre ,
C.H. Kang, W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Waste Dissolution with Chemical
Reaction, Diffusion and Advection," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 55, 130, 1987.
229. T.H. Pigford and P.L. Chambre , "Radionuclide Transport in Geologic Repositories: A Review," in
M. J. Apted and R.E. Westerman (eds.), Scientific Basis for Nuclear Waste Management XI,
Pittsburgh, Materials Research Society, 125, 1988.
230. P.L. Chambre ,
C.H. Kang, W.W.L.Lee and T.H. Pigford, "The Role ofChemical Reaction in Waste-
Form Performance," in M.J. Apted and R.E. Westerman (eds.), Scientific Basis for Nuclear Waste
Management XI, Pittsburgh, Materials Research Society, 285, 1988.
231. T.H. Pigford and P.L.Chambre
1
, "Verification, Validation, and Reliability of Predictions,"
Proceedings of GEOVAL, Stockholm, Sweden, 151, 1987.
232. C.L. Kim, P.L. Chambre , W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Analytic Solutions for Predicting Far-
Field Contaminant Transport," Eos, 68, 318, 1987.
233. A. Ahn, C.L. Kim, P.L.Chambre ,
W.W.L. Lee, and T.H. Pigford, "Approximations for Array
Sources in Ground-Water Quality Modeling," Eos, 68, 317, 1987.
234. C.L. Kim, P.L. Chambre ,
W.W.L.Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Radionuclide Transport from an Array of
Waste Packages in a Geologic Repository," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 54, 109, 1987.
235. J. Ahn, P.L.Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford and W.W.L. Lee, "Transport of Radionuclides Released from
a Multiple-Patch Source into a Planar Fracture with Transverse Hydrodynamic Dispersion," Trans.
Am. Nuc. Soc., 54, 107, 1987.
236. W.B. Light, W.W.L. Lee, P.L.Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "The Effects of Sorption and Decay on
Steady-State Radionuclide Release Rates," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 54, 108, 1987.
237. J. Ahn, P.L. Chambre ,
T.H. Pigford and W.W.L. Lee, "Nuclide Migration from Areal Sources Into
a Fracture," in R.M. Ragan (ed.,), Proceedings of the 1987 National Conference on Hydraulic
Engineering, New York: American Society of Civil Engineers, 913, 1987.
238. C.L. Kim, P.L.Chambre ,
W.W.L. Lee and T.H. Pigford, "Contaminant Transport from an Array of
Sources," in R.M. Ragan (ed.), Proceedings of the 1987 National Conference on Hydraulic
Engineering, New York: American Society of Civil Engineers, 1022, 1987.
239. J.Ahn, P.L.Chambre , T.H. Pigford and W.W.L.Lee, "Multiple Patch Sources and Effects of
Transverse Dispersion," Eos. 67, 965, 1986.
315
240. H.C. Lung, P.L. Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Transport of Radioactive Chains Through Porous
Media of Finite Extent," Eos. 67, 965, 1986.
241. T.H. Pigford, "Can Cs-137 be Dismissed Under the NRC Release-Rate Criterion for Geologic
Repositories," UCB-NE-4088, July 1986.
242. P.L. Chambre ,
W.W.L. Lee, C.L. Kim and T.H. Pigford, "Radionuclide Transport Through
Penetrations in Nuclear Waste Containers," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 53, 134, 1986.
243. W.W.L.Lee, C.L. Kim, P.L.Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Cumulative Releases of Radionuclides
from Uncontained Waste Packages," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 53, 135, 1986.
244. P.L.Chambre
1
,
C.H. Kang, W.W.L. Lee and T.H.Pigford, "Mass Transfer of Soluble Species into
Backfill and Rock," Trans. Am. Nuc.Soc., 53, 136, 1986.
245. H.C. Lung, P.L. Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Transport of Radioactive Chains Through Backfill,"
UCB-NE-4083, LBL-21698, 1986.
246. P.L. Chambre ,
W.W.L. Lee, C.L. Kim and T.H. Pigford, "Transient and Steady State Radionuclide
Transport Through Penetrations of Nuclear Waste Containers," in J. K. Bates and W.B. Seefeldt
(eds.), Scientific Basis for Nuclear Waste Management X, Pittsburgh, Materials Research Society,
131, 1987.
247. T.H. Pigford and P.L.Chambre , "Reliable Predictions of Waste Performance in a Geologic
Repository," and "Response to Comments by P.B. Macedo and C.J. Montrose" in H.C. Burkholder
(ed.),High-Level Nuclear Waste Disposal, Columbus, OH: Bartelle Press, pp. 163- 186 and 191-201,
1986.
248. C.L. Kim, P.L. Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Mass-Transfer Limited Release of a Soluble Waste
Species," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 52, 80, 1986.
249. P.L. Chambre1
, H.C. Lung and T.H. Pigford, "Mass Transfer of a Radioactive Chain Through
Backfill," Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 52, 78, 1986.
250. P.L.Chambre ,
C.H. Kang and T.H. Pigford, "Flow of Ground Water Around Buried Waste," Trans.
Am. Nuc. Soc., 52, 77, 1986.
251. T.H. Pigford, "Performance Assessment of Coupled Processes," in C-F. Tsang (ed), Coupled
Processed Associated with Nuclear Waste Repositories, Orlando, FL: Academic Press, p. 769, 1987.
252. T.H. Pigford, "Comments on Methodologies for Assessing Long-Term Performance of High-Level
Radioactive Waste Packages (Aerospace Report ATR-85 (5810-01)-IND)", UCB-NE-4063, 1985.
253. T.H. Pigford and P.L. Chambre ,
"Mass Transfer in a Salt Repository," LBL-19918, 1985.
254. S.J. Zavoshy, P.L. Chambre and T.H. Pigford, "Mass Transfer in a Geologic Environment," in C.M.
Jantzen, J.A. Stone and R.C. Ewing (eds.), Scientific Basis for Nuclear Waste Management VIII,
Pittsburgh, Materials Research Society, pp. 31 1-322, 1985.
255. P.L. Chambre ,
H. Lung, and T.H. Pigford, "Time-Dependent Mass Transfer Through Backfill,"
Trans. Am. Nuc. Soc., 46, 132, 1984.
256. T.H. Pigford, "Geologic Disposal of Radioactive Waste -
1983," LBL-16795, 1983.
316
257. T.H. Pigford and B.J. Mann, "Technical Analysis ofthe EPA Staffs Proposed Draft Standard for the
Geologic Disposal of Radioactive Wastes," UCB-NE-4024, 1983.
258. T.H. Pigford, "Long-Term Environmental Impacts ofGeologic Repositories," In Proceedings ofthe
International Conference on Radioactive Waste Management, Seattle, Washington, IAEA-CN-
43/185, 1983.
259. T. H. Pigford,
"
Actinide Burning and Waste Disposal,", Proceedings M.I.T. International Conference
on the Next Generation of Nuclear Power Technology, October 1990; Report UCB-NE-4176.
260. Sadeghi, M. M., T. H. Pigford, P. L. Chambre , and W. W-L. Lee, "Prediction of Release Rates for
a Potential Waste Repository at Yucca Mountain," LBL-27767, Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory,
Berkeley, CA, October 1990.
261 .
Light, W.B., P. L. Chambre ,
W. W-L. Lee, and T. H. Pigford, "Transport of Gaseous C-14 From
a Repository in Unsaturated Rock," LBL-29744, University of California, Lawrence Berkeley
Laboratory, Berkeley, 1990.
262. Pigford, T. H., and J. S. Choi, "Inventory Reduction Factors for Actinide-Burning Liquid-Metal
Reactors," Trans. Am. Nucl. Soc. 64, 123, November 1991.
263. Pigford, T. H., and J. S. Choi, "Reduction in Transuranic Inventory by Actinide-Burning Liquid-
Metal Reactors," University of California at Berkeley report UCB-NE-4183, June 1991.
264. P. L. Chambre ,
W. W.-L. Lee, W. B. Light, and T. H. Pigford, "Transport of Soluble Species in
Backfill and Rock,", Report LBL-27579, March 1992.
265. J. Hirschfelder, W. W-L. Lee, T. H. Pigford, "Effect ofActinide Transmutation on Waste Disposal,"
Proceedings of the International Conference: SAFEWASTE 93, SFEN, French Nuclear Energy
Society, Avignon, June 1993.
266. J. Hirschfelder, P. L. Chambre ,
W. W.-L. Lee, T. H. Pigford, M. M. Sadeghi, "Effects of Actinide
Burning on Waste Disposal at Yucca Mountain," Trans. Amer. Nuc. Soc., 1 1 1-113, June 1993.
267. J. P. Holdren, J. F. Ahearne, R. Budnitz, R. L. Garwin, M. M. May, T. H. Pigford, J. Taylor,
"Management and Disposition of Excess Weapons Plutonium," National Academy Press,
Washington, D.C., 1994.
268. Choi, Jor-Shan, and T. H. Pigford, "Effects of Transmuting Long-Lived Radionuclides on Waste
Disposal in a Geological Repository," Managing the Plutonium Surplus: Applications and
Technical Options, R. L. Garwin, et al. (eds.), 171-184, Kluwer Academic Publishers, 1994.
269. R. W. Fri, J. F. Ahearne, J. M. Bahr, R. D. Banks, R. J. Budnitz, S. Burstein, M. W. Carter, C.
Fairhurst, C. McCombie, F. M. Phillips, T. H. Pigford, A. C. Upton, C. G. Whipple, G. F. White, S.
D. Wiltshire, "Technical Bases for Yucca Mountain Standards," National Academy Press,
Washington, D.C., 1995.
270. N. C. Rasmussen, T. A. Burke, G. R. Choppm, A. G. Croff, H. K. Forsen, B. J. Garrick, J. M.
Googin, H. A. Grunder, L. C. Hebel, T. O. Hunter, M. S. Kazimi, E. E. Kintner, R. A. Langley, E.
A. Mason, F. W. McLafferty, T. H. Pigford, D. W. Reicher, J. E. Watson, Jr., S. D. Wiltshire,
"Nuclear Wastes: Technologies for Separations and Transmutation,", National Academy Press,
Washington, D.C., 1996.
317
271 .
Choi, J. S., and T. H. Pigford, "Underground Criticality in Geologic Disposal," in Scientific Basis
For Nuclear Waste Management XX, W. J. Gray and I. R. Triay, Eds., (Materials Research Society,
Pittsburg, PA, 1996), 465, pp. 1273-1280.
272. T. H. Pigford, "The Yucca Mountain Standard: Proposals for Leniency," Proceedings of the
Materials Research Society: V. Scientific Basis for Nuclear Waste Management, November
1995.
273. T. H. Pigford, "The Yucca Mountain Standard: How Lenient Should it Be?", Proceedings of the
1996 International High-Level Radioactive Waste Management Conference, Las Vegas, Nevada,
April 1996.
274. T. H. Pigford, "Invalidity ofthe Probabilistic Exposure Scenario Proposed by the National Research
Council s TYMS Committee," University of California Report UCB-NE-9523, Rev. 1, May 1996.
275. T. H. Pigford, "Dose, Risk, and Uncertainty in Waste Disposal," Transactions of the American
Nuclear Society, June 1997.
276. T. H. Pigford, N. C. Rasmussen, E. E. Kintner, "Transmutation of Radioactive Wastes:
Transmutation Concepts," Transactions of the American Nuclear Society, 74, 64-65, 1996.
277. T. H. Pigford, N. C. Rasmussen, E. E. Kintner, "Transmutation of Radioactive Wastes:
Practicability" Transactions of the American Nuclear Society, 74, 65-67, 1996.
278. Jor-Shan Choi and T. H. Pigford, "Nuclear Criticality in Geologic Disposal of Radioactive Waste,"
Transmutation of Radioactive Wastes: Transmutation Concepts," Transactions of the American
Nuclear Society, 74, 74-76, 1996.
279. Pigford, T. H., "Historical Aspects of Nuclear Energy Utilization in the Last Half-Century and its
Prospect Toward the 21st Century," Journal of the Atomic Energy Society of Japan, 38, No. 5,
5-11, 1996.
280. Pigford, T. H., "Maximum Individual and Vicinity-Average Dose For a Geologic Repository
Containing Radioactive Waste," Risk: Health, Safety & Environment 9, Winter 1997.
281 .
Choi, J. S., and T. H. Pigford, "Underground Criticality in Geologic Disposal," in Scientific Basis
For Nuclear Waste Management XX, W. J. Gray and I. R. Triay, Eds., (Materials Research Society,
Pittsburg, PA, 1996), 465, pp. 1273-1280.
282. T. H. Pigford, N. C. Rasmussen, E. E. Kintner, "Transmutation of Radioactive Wastes:
Transmutation Concepts," Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc., 74, 64-65, 1996.
283. T. H. Pigford, N. C. Rasmussen, E. E. Kintner, "Transmutation of Radioactive Wastes:
Practicability," Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc., 74, 65-675, 1996.
284. Pigford, T. H., and E. D. Zwahlen, "Maximum Individual Dose and Vicinity-Average Dose for a
Geologic Repository," in Scientific Basis For Nuclear Waste Management XX, W. J. Gray and I . R.
Triay, Eds., (Materials Research Society, Pittsburg, PA, 1996), 465, pp. 1099-1 108.
318
285. Lochard, J., R. B. Richardson, F. Lange, A. R. Sundararajan, Y. Nomura, V. Oussanov, B.
Lowendahl, T. H. Pigford, G. Kelly, S. Ramoutar, "Safety, Heath and Environmental Implications
of the Different Fuel Cycles,", Key Issue Paper No. 4, International Symposium on Nuclear Fuel
Cycle and Reactor Strategy: Adjusting to New Realities, 199-235, IAEA, Vienna, Austria, June
1997.
286. Rasmussen, N. C., and T. H. Pigford, "Transmutation of Radioactive Waste: Effect on the Nuclear
Fuel Cycle," International Symposium on Nuclear Fuel Cycle and Reactor Strategies:
Adjusting to New Realities," IAEA-SM-346/41, June 1997.
287. Pigford, T. H., "Dose, Risk, and Uncertainty in Waste Disposal," Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc., June
1997.
288. Carter, Luther J., and Thomas H. Pigford, "Getting Yucca Mountain Right",
The Bulletin of the
Atomic Scientists, March/April, 56-61, 1998.
289. Pigford, T. H., "Effect of Spent-Fuel Alteration on Maximum Dose," Trans. Amer. Nucl. Soc., June
1998.
290. Apted, M. J., and T. H. Pigford, "Reliable and Effective Design Strategies for Engineered Barriers
at Yucca Mountain," Proc. Eighth Int. Conf. on High Level Radioactive Waste Management," 477-
480, May 1998.
291. Carter, L. J., and T. H. Pigford, "The World s Growing Inventory of Civil Spent Fuel," Arms
Control Today, 8-14, January/February 1999.
292. Pigford, T. H., "Geologic Disposal of Radioactive Waste: Ethical and Technical Issues,"
Proceedings: VALDOR - VALues in Decisions On Risk, 1 12-127, Stockholm, 1999.
293. Carter, L. J., and T. H. Pigford, "Confronting the Paradox in Plutonium Policies," Issues in Science
and Technology, Volume XVI, No. 2, Winter 1999-2000, pp. 29-36, National Academy Press.
294. Carter, L. J., and T. H. Pigford, "Catastrophe That Can Be Avoided: Plutonium," Los Angeles Times
Editorial, March 10,2000.
295. Pigford, T. H., "Transmutation: Coals and Challenges," Proc. UNESCO Forum, Como, Italy, July,
2000.
319
APPENDIX F
August 2001
INTERVIEWS ON THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA
Documenting the history of the University of California has been a
responsibility of the Regional Oral History Office since the Office was
established in 1954. Oral history memoirs with University-related persons
are listed below. They have been underwritten by the UC Berkeley
Foundation, the Chancellor s Office, University departments, or by
extramural funding for special projects. The oral histories, both tapes
and transcripts, are open to scholarly use in The Bancroft Library.
Bound, indexed copies of the transcripts are available at cost to
manuscript libraries.
UNIVERSITY FACULTY, ADMINISTRATORS, AND REGENTS
Adams, Frank. Irrigation, Reclamation, and Water Administration. 1956,
491 pp.
Amerine, Maynard A. The University of California and the State s Wine
Industry. 1971, 142 pp. (UC Davis professor.)
Amerine, Maynard A. Wine Bibliographies and Taste Perception Studies.
1988, 91 pp. (UC Davis professor.)
Bierman, Jessie. Maternal and Child Health in Montana, California, the
U.S. Children s Bureau and WHO, 1926-1967. 1987, 246 pp.
Bird, Grace. Leader in Junior College Education at Bakersfield and the
University of California. Two volumes, 1978, 342 pp.
Birge, Raymond Thayer. Raymond Thayer Birge, Physicist. 1960, 395 pp.
Blaisdell, Allen C. Foreign Students and the Berkeley International
House, 1928-1961. 1968, 419 pp.
Blaisdell, Thomas C., Jr. India and China in the World War I Era; New
Deal and Marshall Plan; and University of California, Berkeley.
1991, 373 pp.
Blum, Henrik. Equity for the Public s Health: Contra Costa Health
Officer; Professor, UC School of Public Health; WHO Fieldworker.
1999, 425 pp.
320
Bowker, Albert. Sixth Chancellor, University of California, Berkeley,
1971-1980; Statistician, and National Leader in the Policies and
Politics of Higher Education. 1995, 274 pp.
Brown, Delmer M. Professor of Japanese History, University of
California, Berkeley, 1946-1977. 2000, 410 pp.
Chaney, Ralph Works. Paleobotanist, Conservationist. 1960, 277 pp.
Chao, Yuen Ren. Chinese Linguist, Phonologist, Composer, and Author.
1977, 242 pp.
Connors, Betty. The Committee for Arts and Lectures, 1945-1980: The
Connors Years. 2000, 265 pp.
Constance, Lincoln. Versatile Berkeley Botanist: Plant Taxonomy and
University Governance. 1987, 362 pp.
Corley, James V. Serving the University in Sacramento. 1969, 143 pp.
Cross, Ira Brown. Portrait of an Economics Professor. 1967, 128 pp.
Cruess, William V. A Half Century in Food and Wine Technology. 1967,
122 pp.
Davidson, Mary Blossom. The >ean of Women and the Importance of
Students. 1967, 79 pp.
Davis, Harmer. Founder of the Institute of Transportation and Traffic
Engineering. 1997, 173 pp.
DeMars, Vernon. A Life in Architecture: Indian Dancing, Migrant
Housing, Telesis, Design for Urban Living, Theater, Teaching.
1992, 592 pp.
Dennes, William R. Philosophy and the University Since 1915. 1970,
162 pp.
Donnelly, Ruth. The University s Role in Housing Services. 1970,
129 pp.
Ebright, Carroll "Ky".
California Varsity and Olympics Crew Coach.
1968, 74 pp.
Eckbo, Garrett. Landscape Architecture: The Profession in California,
1935-1940, and Telesis. 1993, 103 pp.
Elberg, Sanford S. Graduate Education and Microbiology at the
University of California, Berkeley, 1930-1989. 1990, 269 pp.
321
Erdman, Henry E. Agricultural Economics: Teaching, Research, and
Writing, University of California, Berkeley, 1922-1969. 1971,
252 pp.
Esherick, Joseph. An Architectural Practice in the San Francisco Bay
Area, 1938-1996. 1996, 800 pp.
Evans, Clinton W. California Athlete, Coach, Administrator, Ambassador.
1968, 106 pp.
Foster, George. An Anthropologist s Life in the 20th Century: Theory
and Practice at UC Berkeley, the Smithsonian, in Mexico, and with
the World Health Organization. 2000, 401 pp.
Foster, Herbert B. The Role of the Engineer s Office in the Development
of the University of California Campuses. 1960, 134 pp.
Fruge, August. A Publisher s Career with the University of California
Press, the Sierra Club, and the California Native Plant Society.
2001, 345 pp.
Gardner, David Pierpont. A Life in Higher Education: Fifteenth President
of the University of California, 1983-1992. 1997, 810 pp.
Grether, Ewald T. Dean of the UC Berkeley Schools of Business
Administration, 1943-1961; Leader in Campus Administration, Public
Service, and Marketing Studies; and Forever a Teacher. 1993,
1069 pp.
Hagar, Ella Barrows. Continuing Memoirs: Family, Community,
University. (Class of 1919, daughter of University President David
P. Barrows.) 1974, 272 pp.
Hamilton, Brutus. Student Athletics and the Voluntary Discipline.
1967, 50 pp.
Harding, Sidney T. A Life in Western Water Development. 1967, 524 pp.
Harris, Joseph P. Professor and Practitioner: Government, Election
Reform, and the Votomatic. 1983, 155 pp.
Harsanyi, John. Nobel Laureate John Harsanyi: From Budapest to
Berkeley, 1920-2000. 2000, 151 pp.
Hays, William Charles. Order, Taste, and Grace in Architecture. 1968,
241 pp.
Heller, Elinor Raas. A Volunteer in Politics, in Higher Education, and
on Governing Boards. Two volumes, 1984, 851 pp.
322
Helmholz, A. Carl. Physics and Faculty Governance at the University of
California Berkeley, 1937-1990. 1993, 387 pp.
Heyman, Ira Michael. (In process.) Professor of Law and Berkeley
Chancellor, 1980-1990.
Heyns, Roger W. Berkeley Chancellor, 1965-1971: The University in a
Turbulent Society. 1987, 180 pp.
Hildebrand, Joel H. Chemistry, Education, and the University of
California. 1962, 196 pp.
Huff, Elizabeth. Teacher and Founding Curator of the East Asiatic
Library: from Urbana to Berkeley by Way of Peking. 1977, 278 pp.
Huntington, Emily. A Career in Consumer Economics and Social Insurance.
1971, 111 pp.
Hutchison, Claude B. The College of Agriculture, University of
California, 1922-1952. 1962, 524 pp.
Jenny, Hans. Soil Scientist, Teacher, and Scholar. 1989, 364 pp.
Johnston, Marguerite Kulp, and Joseph R. Mixer. Student Housing,
Welfare, and the ASUC . 1970, 157 pp.
Jones, Mary C. Harold S. Jones and Mary C. Jones, Partners in
Longitudinal Studies. 1983, 154 pp.
Joslyn, Maynard A. A Technologist Views the California Wine Industry.
1974, 151 pp.
Kasimatis, Amandus N. A Career in California Viticulture. 1988, 54 pp.
(UC Davis professor.)
Kendrick, James B. Jr. From Plant Pathologist to Vice President for
Agricultural and Natural Resources, University of California,
1947-1986. 1989, 392 pp.
Kingman, Harry L. Citizenship in a Democracy. (Stiles Hall, University
YMCA.) 1973, 292 pp.
Roll, Michael J. The Lair of the Bear and the Alumni Association, 1949-
1993. 1993, 387 pp.
Kragen, Adrian A. A Law Professor s Career: Teaching, Private Practice,
and Legislative Representation, 1934 to 1989. 1991, 333 pp.
Kroeber-Quinn, Theodora. Timeless Woman, Writer and Interpreter of the
California Indian World. 1982, 453 pp.
323
Landreth, Catherine. The Nursery School of the Institute of Child
Welfare of the University of California, Berkeley. 1983, 51 pp.
Langelier, Wilfred E. Teaching, Research, and Consultation in Water
Purification and Sewage Treatment, University of California at
Berkeley, 1916-1955. 1982, 81 pp.
Lehman, Benjamin H. Recollections and Reminiscences of Life in the Bay
Area from 1920 Onward. 1969, 367 pp.
Lenzen, Victor F. Physics and Philosophy. 1965, 206 pp.
Leopold, Luna. Hydrology, Geomorphology, and Environmental Policy: U.S.
Geological Survey, 1950-1972, and the UC Berkeley, 1972-1987.
1993, 309 pp.
Lessing, Ferdinand D. Early Years. (Professor of Oriental Languages.)
1963, 70 pp.
McGauhey, Percy H. The Sanitary Engineering Research Laboratory:
Administration, Research, and Consultation, 1950-1972. 1974,
259 pp.
McCaskill, June. Herbarium Scientist, University of California, Davis.
1989, 83 pp. (UC Davis professor.)
McLaughlin, Donald. Careers in Mining Geology and Management,
University Governance and Teaching. 1975, 318 pp.
Maslach, George J. Aeronautical Engineer, Professor, Dean of the
College of Engineering, Provost for Professional Schools and
Colleges, Vice Chancellor for Research and Academic Affairs,
University of California, Berkeley, 1949 to 1983. 2000, 523 pp.
May, Henry F. Professor of American Intellectual History, University of
California, Berkeley, 1952-1980. 1999, 218 pp.
Merritt, Ralph P. After Me Cometh a Builder, the Recollections of Ralph
Palmer Merritt. 1962, 137 pp. (UC Rice and Raisin Marketing.)
Metcalf, Woodbridge. Extension Forester, 1926-1956. 1969, 138 pp.
Meyer, Karl F. Medical Research and Public Health. 1976, 439 pp.
Miles, Josephine. Poetry, Teaching, and Scholarship. 1980, 344 pp.
Mitchell, Lucy Sprague. Pioneering in Education. 1962, 174 pp.
Morgan, Elmo. Physical Planning and Management: Los Alamos, University
of Utah, University of California, and AID, 1942-1976. 1992, 274 pp.
324
Neuhaus, Eugen. Reminiscences: Bay Area Art and the University of
California Art Department. 1961, 48 pp.
Newell, Pete. UC Berkeley Athletics and a Life in Basketball: Coaching
Collegiate and Olympic Champions; Managing, Teaching, and
Consulting in the NBA, 1935-1995. 1997, 470 pp.
Newman, Frank. Professor of Law, University of California, Berkeley,
1946-present, Justice, California Supreme Court, 1977-1983. 1994,
336 pp. (Available through California State Archives.)
Neylan, John Francis. Politics, Law, and the University of California.
1962, 319 pp.
Nyswander, Dorothy B. Professor and Activist for Public Health
Education in the Americas and Asia. 1994, 318 pp.
O Brien, Morrough P. Dean of the College of Engineering, Pioneer in
Coastal Engineering, and Consultant to General Electric. 1989,
313 pp.
Olmo, Harold P. Plant Genetics and New Grape Varieties. 1976, 183 pp.
(UC Davis professor.)
Ough, Cornelius. Recollections of an Enologist, University of
California, Davis, 1950-1990. 1990, 66 pp.
Peltason, Jack W. Political Scientist and Leader in Higher Education,
1947-1995: Sixteenth President of the University of California,
Chancellor at UC Irvine and the University of Illinois. 2001, 734
pp.
Pepper, Stephen C. Art and Philosophy at the University of California,
1919-1962. 1963, 471 pp.
Pigford, Thomas H., Building the Fields of Nuclear Engineering and
Nuclear Waste Management, 1950-1999. 2001, 340 pp.
Pitzer, Kenneth. Chemist and Administrator at UC Berkeley, Rice
University, Stanford University, and the Atomic Energy Commission,
1935-1997. 1999, 558 pp.
Porter, Robert Langley. Physician, Teacher and Guardian of the Public
Health. 1960, 102 pp. (UC San Francisco professor.)
Reeves, William. Arbovirologist and Professor, UC Berkeley School of
Public Health. 1993, 686 pp.
325
Revelle, Roger. Oceanography, Population Resources and the World.
1988. (UC San Diego professor.) (Available through Archives,
Scripps Institute of Oceanography, University of California, San
Diego, La Jolla, California 92093.)
Riasanovsky, Nicholas V. Professor of Russian and European Intellectual
History, University of California, Berkeley, 1957-1997. 1998,
310 pp.
Richardson, Leon J. Berkeley Culture, University of California
Highlights, and University Extension, 1892-1960. 1962, 248 pp.
Robb, Agnes Roddy. .Robert Gordon Sproul and the University of
California. 1976, 134 pp.
Rossbach, Charles Edwin. Artist, Mentor, Professor, Writer. 1987,
157 pp.
Schnier, Jacques. A Sculptor s Odyssey. 1987, 304 pp.
Schorske, Carl E. Intellectual Life, Civil Libertarian Issues, and the
Student Movement at the University of California, Berkeley, 1960-
1969. 2000, 203 pp.
Scott, Geraldine Knight. A Woman in Landscape Architecture in
California, 1926-1989. 1990, 235 pp.
Shields, Peter J. Reminiscences of the Father of the Davis Campus.
1954, 107 pp.
Sproul, Ida Wittschen. The President s Wife. 1981, 347 pp.
Stampp, Kenneth M. Historian of Slavery, the Civil War, and
Reconstruction, University of California, Berkeley, 1946-1983.
1998, 310 pp.
Stern, Milton. The Learning Society: Continuing Education at NYU,
Michigan, and UC Berkeley, 1946-1991. 1993, 292 pp.
Stevens, Frank C. Forty Years in the Office of the President,
University of California, 1905-1945. 1959, 175 pp.
Stewart, George R. A Little of Myself. (Author and UC Professor of
English.) 1972, 319 pp.
Stripp, Fred S. Jr. University Debate Coach, Berkeley Civic Leader,
and Pastor. 1990, 75 pp.
Strong, Edward W. Philosopher, Professor, and Berkeley Chancellor,
1961-1965. 1992, 530 pp.
326
Struve, Gleb. (In process.) Professor of Slavic Languages and
Literature.
Taylor, Paul Schuster.
Volume I: Education, Field Research, and Family, 1973, 342 pp.
Volume II and Volume III: California Water and Agricultural
Labor, 1975, 519 pp.
Thygeson, Phillips. External Eye Disease and the Proctor Foundation.
1988, 321 pp. (UC San Francisco professor.) (Available through
the Foundation of the American Academy of Ophthalmology.)
Tien, Chang-Lin. (In process.) Berkeley Chancellor, 1990-1997.
Towle, Katherine A. Administration and Leadership. 1970, 369 pp.
Townes, Charles H. A Life in Physics: Bell Telephone Laboratories and
WWII, Columbia University and the Laser, MIT and Government
Service; California and Research in Astrophysics. 1994, 691 pp.
Underhill, Robert M. University of California: Lands, Finances, and
Investments. 1968, 446 pp.
Vaux, Henry J. Forestry in the Public Interest: Education, Economics,
State Policy, 1933-1983. 1987, 337 pp.
Wada, Yori. Working for Youth and Social Justice: The YMCA, the
University of California, and the Stulsaft Foundation. 1991,
203 pp.
Waring, Henry C. Henry C. Waring on University Extension. 1960,
130 pp.
Wellman, Harry. Teaching, Research and Administration, University of
California, 1925-1968. 1976, 259 pp.
Wessels, Glenn A. Education of an Artist. 1967, 326 pp.
Westphal, Katherine. Artist and Professor. 1988, 190 pp. (UC Davis
professor. )
Whinnery, John. Researcher and Educator in Electromagnetics,
Microwaves, and Optoelectronics, 1935-1995; Dean of the College of
Engineering, UC Berkeley, 1950-1963. 1996, 273 pp.
Wiegel, Robert L. Coastal Engineering: Research, Consulting, and
Teaching, 1946-1997. 1997, 327 pp.
Williams, Arleigh. Dean of Students Arleigh Williams: The Free Speech
Movement and the Six Years War, 1964-1970. 1990, 329 pp.
327
Williams, Arleigh and Betty H. Neely. Disabled Students Residence
Program. 1987, 41 pp.
Wilson, Garff B. The Invisible Man, or, Public Ceremonies Chairman at
Berkeley for Thirty-Five Years. 1981, 442 pp.
Winkler, Albert J. ^iticultural Research at UC Davis, 1921-1971. 1973,
144 pp.
Woods, Baldwin M. University of California Extension. 1957, 102 pp.
Wurster, William Wilson. College of Environmental Design, University of
California, Campus Planning, and Architectural Practice. 1964,
339 pp.
MULTI- INTERVIEWEE PROJECTS
Blake Estate Oral History Project. 1988, 582 pp.
Architects landscape architects, gardeners, presidents of UC
document the history of the UC presidential residence. Includes
interviews with Mai Arbegast, Igor Blake, Ron and Myra Brocchini,
Toichi Domoto, Eliot Evans, Tony Hail, Linda Haymaker, Charles
Hitch, Flo Holmes, Clark and Kay Kerr, Gerry Scott, George and
Helena Thacher, Walter Vodden, and Norma Wilier.
Centennial History Project, 1954-1960. 329 pp.
Includes interviews with George P. Adams, Anson Stiles Blake,
Walter C. Blasdale, Joel H. Hildebrand, Samuel J. Holmes, Alfred L.
Kroeber, Ivan M. Linforth, George D. Louderback, Agnes Fay Morgan,
and William Popper. (Bancroft Library use only.)
Thomas D. Church, Landscape Architect. Two volumes, 1978, 803 pp.
Volume I: Includes interviews with Theodore Bernardi, Lucy Butler,
June Meehan Campbell, Louis De Monte, Walter Doty, Donn Emmons,
Floyd Gerow, Harriet Henderson, Joseph Rowland , Ruth Jaffe, Burton
Litton, Germano Milano, Miriam Pierce, George Rockrise, Robert
Royston, Geraldine Knight Scott, Roger Sturtevant, Francis Violich,
and Harold Watkin.
Volume II: Includes interviews with Maggie Baylis, Elizabeth
Roberts Church, Robert Glasner, Grace Hall, Lawrence Halprin,
Proctor Mellquist, Everitt Miller, Harry Sanders, Lou Schenone,
Jack Stafford, Goodwin Steinberg, and Jack Wagstaff .
Interviews with Dentists. (Dental History Project, University of
California, San Francisco.) 1969, 1114 pp. Includes interviews
with Dickson Bell, Reuben L. Blake, Willard C. Fleming, George A.
Hughes, Leland D. Jones, George F. McGee, C. E. Rutledge, William
B. Ryder, Jr., Herbert J. Samuels, Joseph Sciutto, William S.
328
Smith, Harvey Stallard, George E. Steninger, and Abraham W. Ward.
(Bancroft Library use only.)
Julia Morgan Architectural History Project. Two volumes, 1976, 621 pp.
Volume I: The Work of Walter Steilberg and Julia Morgan, and the
Department of Architecture, UCB, 1904-1954. Includes interviews
with Walter T. Steilberg, Robert Ratcliff, Evelyn Paine Ratcliff,
Norman L. Jensen, John E. Wagstaff, George C. Hodges, Edward B.
Hussey, and Warren Charles Perry.
Volume II: Julia Morgan, Her Office, and a House. Includes
interviews with Mary Grace Barren, Kirk 0. Rowlands, Norma Wilier,
Quintilla Williams, Catherine Freeman Nimitz, Polly Lawrence
McNaught, Hettie Belle Marcus, Bjarne Dahl, Bjarne Dahl, Jr.,
Morgan North, Dorothy Wormser Coblentz, and Flora d llle North.
The Prytaneans: An Oral History of the Prytanean Society and its
Members. (Order from Prytanean Society.)
Volume I: 1901-1920, 1970, 307 pp.
Volume II: 1921-1930, 1977, 313 pp.
Volume III: 1931-1935, 1990, 343 pp.
Six Weeks in Spring, 1985: Managing Student Protest at UC Berkeley.
887 pp. Transcripts of sixteen interviews conducted during July-
August 1985 documenting events on the UC Berkeley campus in April-
May 1985 and administration response to student activities
protesting university policy on investments in South Africa.
Interviews with: Ira Michael Heyman, chancellor; Watson Laetsch,
vice chancellor; Roderic Park, vice chancellor; Ronald Wright, vice
chancellor; Richard Hafner, public affairs officer; John Cummins
and Michael R. Smith, chancellor s staff; Patrick Hayashi and B.
Thomas Travers, undergraduate affairs; Mary Jacobs, Hal Reynolds,
and Michelle Woods, student affairs; Derry Bowles, William Foley,
Joseph Johnson, and Ellen Stetson, campus police. (Bancroft
Library use only.)
Robert Gordon Sproul Oral History Project. Two volumes, 1986, 904 pp.
Includes interviews with thirty- five persons who knew him well:
Horace M. Albright, Stuart LeRoy Anderson, Katherine Connick
Bradley, Franklin M. "Dyke" Brown, Ernest H. Burness, Natalie
Cohen, Paul A. Dodd, May Dornin, Richard E. Erickson, Walter S.
Frederick, David P. Gardner, Marion Sproul Goodin, Vernon L.
Goodin, Louis H. Heilbron, Robert S. Johnson, Clark Kerr, Adrian A.
Kragen, Mary Blumer Lawrence, Stanley E. McCaffrey, Dean McHenry,
Donald H. McLaughlin, Kendric Morrish, Marion Morrish, William Penn
Mott, Jr., Herman Phleger, John B. deC. M. Saunders, Carl W.
Sharsmith, John A. Sproul, Robert Gordon Sproul, Jr., Wallace
Sterling, Wakefield Taylor, Robert M. Underbill, Eleanor L. Van
Horn, Garff B. Wilson, and Pete L. Yzaguirre.
329
The University of California during the Presidency of David P. Gardner,
1983-1992. (In process.)
Interviews with members of the university community and state
government officials.
The Women s Faculty Club of the University of California at Berkeley,
1919-1982. 1983, 312 pp.
Includes interviews with Josephine Smith, Margaret Murdock, Agnes
Robb, May Dornin, Josephine Miles, Gudveig Gordon-Britland,
Elizabeth Scott, Marian Diamond, Mary Ann Johnson, Eleanor Van
Horn, and Katherine Van Valer Williams.
UC BERKELEY BLACK ALUMNI ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
Broussard, Allen. A California Supreme Court Justice Looks at Law and
Society, 1969-1996. 1997, 266 pp.
Ferguson, Lloyd Noel. Increasing Opportunities in Chemistry, 1936-1986.
1992, 74 pp.
Gordon, Walter A. Athlete, Officer in Law Enforcement and
Administration, Governor of the Virgin Islands. Two volumes, 1980,
621 pp.
Jackson, Ida. Overcoming Barriers in Education. 1990, 80 pp.
Patterson, Charles. Working for Civic Unity in Government, Business,
and Philanthropy. 1994, 220 pp.
Pittman, Tarea Hall. NAACP Official and Civil Rights Worker.
1974, 159 pp.
Poston, Marvin. Making Opportunities in Vision Care. 1989, 90 pp.
Rice, Emmett J. Education of an Economist: From Fulbright Scholar to
the Federal Reserve Board, 1951-1979. 1991, 92 pp.
Rumford, William Byron. Legislator for Fair Employment, Fair Housing,
and Public Health. 1973, 152 pp.
Williams, Archie. The Joy of Flying: Olympic Gold, Air Force Colonel,
and Teacher. 1993, 85 pp.
Wilson, Lionel. Attorney, Judge, Oakland Mayor. 1992, 104 pp.
330
UC BERKELEY CLASS OF 1931 ENDOWMENT SERIES, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA,
SOURCE OF COMMUNITY LEADERS (OUTSTANDING ALUMNI)
Bennett, Mary Woods (class of 1931). A Career in Higher Education:
Mills College 1935-1974. 1987, 278 pp.
Bridges, Robert L. (class of 1930). Sixty Years of Legal Advice to
International Construction Firms; Thelen, Marrin, Johnson and
Bridges, 1933-1997, 1998, 134 pp.
Browne, Alan K. (class of 1931). "Mr.
Municipal Bond": Bond Investment
Management, Bank of America, 1929-1971. 1990, 325 pp.
Coliver, Edith (class of 1943). (In process.) Foreign aid specialist.
Cubie, Crete W. (Fruge) (class of 1935). A Career in Public Libraries
and at UC Berkeley s School of Librarianship. 2000, 198 pp.
Dettner, Anne Degruchy Low-Beer (class of 1926). A Woman s Place in
Science and Public Affairs, 1932-1973. 1996, 260 pp.
Devlin, Marion (class of 1931). Women s News Editor: Vallejo Times-
Herald, 1931-1978. 1991, 157 pp.
Foster, George M. (class of 1935). An Anthropologist s Life in the
Twentieth Century: Theory and Practice at UC Berkeley, the
Smithsonian, in Mexico, and with the World Health Organization.
2000, 413 pp.
Foster, Mary LeCron (Ph.D., 1965). Finding the Themes: Family,
Anthropology, Language Origins, Peace and Conflict. 2001, 337 pp.
Hassard, H. Howard (class of 1931). The California Medical Association,
Medical Insurance, and the Law, 1935-1992. 1993, 228 pp.
Hedgpeth, Joel (class of 1931). Marine Biologist and Environmentalist:
Pycnogonids, Progress, and Preserving Bays, Salmon, and Other
Living Things. 1996, 319 pp.
Heilbron, Louis (class of 1928). Most of a Century: Law and Public
Service, 1930s to 1990s. 1995, 397 pp.
Hoadley, Walter (class of 1938). Business Economist, Federal Reserve
System Director, and University of California Regent, 1938-2000.
2000, 250 pp.
Kay, Harold (class of 1931). A Berkeley Boy s Service to the Medical
Community of Alameda County, 1935-1994. 1994, 104 pp.
331
Kittredge, Janice (class of 1947). Volunteer and Employment Careers:
University of California, Berkeley; Save San Francisco Bay
Association, 1964-1998. 2000, 198 pp.
Koshland, Daniel E., Jr. (class of 1941) In process.
Kragen, Adrian A. (class of 1931). A Law Professor 1
s Career: Teaching,
Private Practice, and Legislative Representative, 1934 to 1989.
1991, 333 pp.
Lin, T. Y. (M.S., 1933). In process.
Peterson, Rudolph (class of 1925). A Career in International Banking
with the Bank of America, 1936-1970, and the United Nations
Development Program, 1971-1975. 1994, 408 pp.
Reynolds, Flora Elizabeth (M.A., 1935). "A Dukedom Large Enough": Forty
Years in Northern California s Public and Academic Libraries, 1936-
1976. 2000, 180 pp.
Schwabacher, James H., Jr. (class of 1941). Renaissance Man of Bay Area
Music: Tenor, Teacher, Administrator, Impresario. 2001, 197 pp.
Stripp, Fred S. Jr. (class of 1932). t/niversity Debate Coach, Berkeley
Civic Leader, and Pastor. 1990, 75 pp.
Torre, Gary (class of 1941). Labor and Tax Attorney, 1949-1982; Sierra
Club Foundation Trustee, 1968-1981, 1994-1998. 1999, 301 pp.
Trefethen, Eugene (class of 1930) . Kaiser Industries, Trefethen
Vineyards, the University of California, and Mills College, 1926-
1997. 1997, 189 pp.
UC BERKELEY ALUMNI DISCUSS THE UNIVERSITY
Griffiths, Farnham P. (class of 1906). The University of California and
the California Bar. 1954, 46 pp.
Ogg, Robert Danforth (class of 1941). Business and Pleasure:
Electronics, Anchors, and the University of California. 1989,
157 pp.
Olney, Mary McLean (class of 1895). Oakland, Berkeley, and the
University of California, 1880-1895. 1963, 173 pp.
Selvin, Herman F. (class of 1924). The University of California and
California Law and Lawyers, 1920-1978. 1979, 217 pp.
332
Shurtleff, Roy L. (class of 1912). The University s Class of 1912,
Investment Banking, and the Shurtleff Family History. 1982, 69 pp.
Stewart, Jessie Harris (class of 1914). Memories of Girlhood and the
University. 1978, 70 pp.
Witter, Jean C. (class of 1916). The University, the Community, and the
Lifeblood of Business. 1968, 109 pp.
DONATED ORAL HISTORY COLLECTION
Almy, Millie. .Reflections of Early Childhood Education: 1934-1994.
1997, 89 pp.
Cal Band Oral History Project. An ongoing series of interviews with Cal
Band members and supporters of Cal spirit groups. (University
Archives, Bancroft Library use only.)
Crooks, Afton E. On Balance, One Woman 1
s Life and View of University of
California Management, 1954-1990: An Oral History Memoir of the
Life of Afton E. Crooks. 1994, 211 pp.
Weaver, Harold F. Harold F. Weaver, California Astronomer. 1993,
165 pp.
INDEX- -Thomas H. Pigford
333
acceptable hazards, 110-111
Alexandrite, 167
Alvarez, Louis, 72
alternatives for electric power
generation, 124
American Physical Society, 173
American Institute of Chemical
Engineers, 81
American Nuclear Society, 80-81
American Standard, 57
Anderson, Clinton, 47
Amster, Harvey, 82
anti-Vietnam war, 97-98
aqueous homogenous reactor, 22,
25-27, 29, 53, 59, 64
arms control, 188
Arabella, 8, 18
Arab oil embargo, 124
Argonne National Laboratory, 81
assistant professor, 20-21
Atomic Energy Commission, 33,
35, 53, 96, 101-102
Atomic Safety and Licensing
Boards, 43, 100-108
Atoms for Peace Initiative, 41,
48, 107-108, 230
Babbit, Bruce, 135
Babcock and Wilcox, 42-43, 56,
60, 137, 156
Barnwell plant, 125
Barrett, Cora, 132
Battelle Research Center, 173,
182
Battelle Columbus, 175-176
Bechtel Corporation, 44, 47, 169
Benedict, Hanson, 16, 22, 30, 32,
40, 114, 122, 167-168, 239
Berkeley research reactor, 37,
72-78, 99
volleyball court, 73
radioactive emissions, 73-74
funding, 74-75
Berkeley research reactor (cont d)
staff, 75-76
neutron diffraction, 76
decommissioning, 77-78, 119
Berkeley Tennis Club, 239
Bethe, Hans, 68, 87, 102-103,
130
bioengineering, 92
biomedical, 121
biological effects of radiation,
85
biosphere, 174
Blume, John, 148
Board on Radioactive Waste
Management, 195-196, 201
Bodega Bay, 80, 95-97
Boelter, Llewellyn, 70
boiling water reactor, 26, 64-
66
Bond, J. D., 108
bootleggers, 4
breeder reactor, 52, 53, 59, 83,
85, 102, 107, 169, 220, 225
Brezinsky, Zbignew, 140-141
Brink, David, 239
Brink, Julie, 239
Brookhaven National Laboratory,
101
Brown, Jerry, 128, 132
Burkholder, Harry, 173-177
calcium carbonate, 24
California Public Utilities
Commission, 131
California restrictions
Proposition 15, 128
nuclear waste disposal, 129
campus committees, 234
capillary barriers in China and
Japan, 217-219
Carter, President, 126, 140
Carter, Luther, 126, 216, 221,
224
334
castor oil, 4, 18
caviar, 167
chamber music, 237
Chambre, Paul, 115, 141, 180-185,
188
charcoal adsorber, 66
chemical engineering at Berkeley,
5, 12, 81, 104-105, 117-118
brother, 5, 173, 217
at Georgia Tech, 6, 12, 217
at MIT, 13, 15-17,242, 107,
120, 164, 171, 219
at Savannah River, 174
in Germany, 58
chemical warfare, 6
Chernobyl reactor, 54, 63, 141,
161-166
graphite burning, 163
operator error, 163
sarcophagus, 166
steam explosion, 16
Choi, Jor-Shan, 125
church, 2
Citizens for Safe Energy, 154
Civil Rights, 18
clarinet, 8, 237
Clear Lake, 61
cloud propagation, 25
closed-cycle gas turbine, 49
coal heating, 7
cold war effects, 90
College of Chemistry, Berkeley, 6
College of Engineering, Berkeley,
6, 69-70
Combustion Engineering, 43, 56,
60
combustion project, 19
committee on environmental health
and safety, 234
committee on privilege and tenure,
80, 98, 234
Committee for the Technical Bases
for Yucca Mountain Standard,
201-203
commercial nuclear power, 22
Commonwealth Edison, 64
conch shell, 4
conflict of interest, 206-207
construction cost, 42-44, 50-51
construction permit, 43, 112
consulting, 34
corrosion, 27, 54
cotton, 3, 14
cow, 7
Dakin, Phyllis, 238
Davis, Kenneth, 35, 149
declassification, 33
Denton, Harold, 137-138
department chairman, 70, 116, 188
Depression, (The Great), 1, 6
deregulation, 151-152
designing nuclear bombs, 31
Detroit Edison, 52
Diablo Canyon, 43, 104-106, 108,
131
mirror-image problem, 148
public hearing, 144-152
seismic design, 147-148
management investigation, 149-
152
disposal of radioactive waste,
92, 113, 119-120
at Yucca Mountain, Nevada,
189, 191-193
criteria for performance, 193-
195, 226-229
effect on nuclear power, 229
in basalt, 189
in deep sea beds, 128, 179
in granite, 191
in natural salt, 122, 180,
189-191
in tuff (volcanic ash), 190-
193
interim storage, 220-222, 228
into the sun, 128, 179
Russian programs, 171-172
spent fuel from east Asia, 172
doctoral dissertation, 19
doctoral examinations, 93-95
Donner Laboratory, 74
Duma, 172
DuPont Company, 6, 38-39, 185,
208
Durbin, Patricia, 85
Dyson, Freeman, 88
335
early challenges, 93-95
Earnest, Carolyn, 239
Earnest, Catherine, 239
Edgerton, Harold, 34
Edgerton, Germeshausen, and Greer,
35
Eisenhower, Dwight, 41, 48
Elberg, Sanford, 74
Electric Boat Company, 58
Electric Power Research Institute,
201
Energy Research and Development
Administration [ERDA] , 112-113
environmental concerns, 63-66,
123, 154, 172
Environmental Protection Agency,
65, 154, 194, 196-205, 214
farm, 2, 3
Federal Republic of Germany, 107-
109
Fermi-1 reactor, 102-104, 109
Fermi-2 reactor, 104
football, 10
Ford, President, 126
Foster Wheeler, 37
Free Speech Movement, 97-99, 231
French horn, 8-9
Florence, Alabama, 238
fluid-fuel reactor, 53
Fowler, Kenneth, 91
Frankfurter, Felix, 102
fuel-cycle cost, 43, 125
fuel reprocessing, 32, 38, 125-
126, 169, 208-210, 224-226
Purex process, 38-39, 68
gardening, 7
Gainey, Emma Gene, 2, 12
General Atomic, 44-46, 52, 68,
170
General Dynamics, 46, 56
General Electric Co., 38-39, 42,
56-57, 60, 64-65, 155, 158
General Electric Fast Reactor,
107-108
General Public Utilities, 141
Georgia Tech, 9-11, 15
geothermal power, 61
Gleason, James, 145-147
goat, 8
Gorbachev, 167
Grossman, Lawrence, 121
Gulf States Utility Company, 155
Hafstad, Larry, 35
Hagerty, Pat, 134
Hanford, Washington, 37-38, 51,
53-54, 160, 173, 182, 189, 208-
210
litigation, 208-210
World War II releases, 208-210
Columbia river, 209
Harrington, Alma (Ammie) , 2, 7
Harrington, Aunt Annis, 3
Harrington, Cora (Cowa), 2, 7
Harrington, Herbert, 2
Hartford, Connecticut, 30
Harvard Law School, 102
heat extraction, 86
heating with natural gas, 7
heavy water production, 38
heavy water reactors, 38, 51
helicopter, 25
Heller Ehrman, 149-152
Herreshoff, 240
Hershey, Pennsylvania, 136
Heyman, Mike, 77-78, 132
Higashi, Kunio, 175
high-temperature reactor, 45-46,
56-60, 170
Hindenberg, 52
hog slaughter, 3
Hottel, Hoyt C. , 19
hydrogen fluoride, 24
hydrogen-oxide burner, 26
ICBMs, 31
ice cream, 3
intervenors, 111
Institute of Applied Science, 88
Institute of Nuclear Power
Operations (INPO), 141-144
instructor at MIT, 16
336
instructional material, 33
ion propulsion, 84
isotope separation, 32-33
Issues of Science and Technology,
225
Jensch, Samuel, 102
Joint Committee on Atomic Energy,
47, 58
Jones, Hardin, 74
Kaplan, Selig N. , 121
Kemeny, John, 134
Kerr, Clark, 98
Knolls Atomic Power Laboratory,
52, 59
Kurchatov Institute, 165, 168
Kuwait, 41
Kyoto University, 175
La Jolla, 44
Lane, Howard, 8
Latvia, 165
Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory,
72, 86
Lawrence, Ernest, 72
Lawrence Livermore Laboratory,
71, 88
Lexington, Massachusetts, 219
Lewis, Carolyn, 134
Lewis, Warren K., 16
Libby, Willard, 35
Lilienthal, David, 33
lithium coolant, 159
Los Alamos, 47, 162
Lugar, Senator, 170
Magnolia Cemetery, 11
Mallinckrodt Chemical Company, 23
Manhattan Project, 19, 82, 102
Mann, Bruce, 135
Marian Park Elementary School, 2
Marion, Massachusetts, 240
Mark, Hans, 140-141, 230-231
Defense Department, 233
University of Texas, 233
Marks, Paul, 134
Massachusetts Institute of
Technology (MIT), 5, 10, 15,
16-22, 42, 45, 69
Department of Chemical
Engineering, 238
Department of Metallurgy, 238
research reactor, 37
School of Chemical Engineering
Practice, 17
School of Engineering Practice,
2, 20-22, 29, 32, 55, 238
McBride, Lloyd, 135
McMillan, Ed, 73
McPherson, Harry, 135
Meridian Junior High School, 2
Meridian, Mississippi, 1
Methodist, 4
Middletown, Pennsylvania, 136
Mississippi State College, 6, 9
Mitchell, George, 153
molasses, 3
molten salt reactor, 29, 53
Montgomery County, Maryland, 145
Morris, John, 12
Morse, Ed, 91
Mount St. Helens, 211
Nagasaki bomb, 82
NASA, 160-161
National Academies of Science and
Engineering, 179-180, 195, 222
National Research Council, 184
National Science Foundation, 36,
74
National Testing Station, 190
Nautilus, 143
navy students, 33-34
Naylor, Cindy, 239
Naylor, Daniel, 239
Naylor, Matthew, 239
Nelson, Gaylord, 113
Nevada, State of, 154
niobium, 30
North Carolina State College, 34
337
N-reactor at Hanford, 161-166
plutonium and power production,
161
Wigner disease, 164
Zircaloy tubes, 164
nuclear-bomb propulsion, 47
Nuclear Chemical Engineering, 68,
167-168
nuclear engineering at Berkeley,
60-62, 70-95, 103, 118, 134,
178, 233
Free Speech Movement, 232
laboratory facilities, 71-72
office facilities, 235
restimulation, 116-117
women and minorities, 233
teaching, 236
nuclear engineering at Michigan,
63
nuclear engineering at MIT, 17-
19, 23-28, 32, 71, 122, 239
nuclear fuel cycle, 32, 83, 125,
173
nuclear fusion, 84, 120
nuclear instrumentation, 84
nuclear magnetic resonance, 36
nuclear materials, 71, 83-84, 87
nuclear power, 28, 32, 41-45, 49-
61, 79
economics, 114, 124-126
competition with natural gas,
114-115
hindsight, 230
nuclear-propelled airplane, 23,
28-31
nuclear-propelled ship, 46, 48-49
nuclear reactor for Antarctica,
54
explosion, 63
nuclear reactor for space
application, 158-159
nuclear reactor physics and
criticality, 81-82
nuclear reactor safety, 100-113,
123-124
Nuclear Science and Engineering,
81
nuclear waste research, 173-205
applicability to chemical
waste, 178
borosilicate glass, 184
classical mathematics, 176
computer codes, 177
decay chains, 174
deep sea-bed disposal, 179
dissolution rate, 181-184
geologic disposal, 179
postdoctoral fellows, 178
potential flow, 183
transmutation, 173
transport through geologic
media, 173-178
Nyer, Warren, 102
Oak Ridge, Tennessee, 5, 17, 22-
25, 238
Oak Ridge National Laboratory,
5, 22, 83
oboe, 236
O Brien, Michael, 70
Olander, Donald, 91, 121-122
organic-cooled reactor, 51, 6
Overture to Oberon, 9
Overture to William Tell, 13
painter, 5
Pacific Gas and Electric Co., 43-
44, 95-97, 131, 144-152
Pacific Northwest Laboratory,
177
Palladino, Nunzio, 144
part-time jobs, 14
paying college expenses, 9
penicillin, 17
Perry, Fred, 12
Persephone, 238
Peterson, Russell, 134
physics, 15
Pigford, Betty, 237
Pigford, Cindy, 239
Pigford, Julie, 237
Pigford, Katy, 237-239
Pigford, Paul, 4
338
Pigford, Robert, 5-6, 8-9, 15,
185-186, 236
Pitzer, Kenneth, 69
Plutonium, 38, 85, 170-172, 210
as nuclear fuel, 171-172, 223
civil, 224-226
from surplus weapons, 222-224
pneumonia, 4
polarizations, 130-133, 153
Poole, Oscar, 9
Pratt and Whitney Aircraft, 30,
42
pressurized-water reactors, 50
Princeton Institute of Advanced
Study, 88
Princeton University, 18
proliferation of nuclear weapons,
126-127, 170-172, 220-221
from civil plutonium, 224-226
public involvement, 111-112
Purex process, 38-39, 68
Pyle, Robert, 84, 91
racial prejudice, 18
radar, 18
radioiodine doses, 146-147
Reed College, 36
religion, 14-15
remedial training, 9
reactor meltdown, 103-104
reactor safety, 62-63
Reagan, President, 126-127
research reactors, 36
Reynolds Aluminum Co., 238
Richmond Field Station, 72
Rickover, Hyman, 33, 44, 58, 140,
143
River Bend Nuclear Plant, 155
advisory committee, 155-156
reactor technical problems, 55-56
reactors in Russia, Ukraine, and
Lithuania, 165
Roddis, Lou, 164
resolving conflicts, 152-155
Rockwell, 206
roller skating, 5
Roosevelt, Franklin D,, 14
Rossinni, 13
Sacramento Municipal Utilities
District (SMUD), 155
advisory committee, 155-158
Rancho Seco nuclear plant,
156-158
decommissioning, 158
Savannah River, 37-38, 51, 185
Sawyer, Diane, 135
School band, 2, 8
Schrock, Virgil, 86, 121
Schlesinger, James, 113
scientific master, 207-210
Seaborg, Glenn, 38, 53, 78, 82-
83, 88, 102, 105, 109, 117,
161, 210
Sears Roebuck, 12
security, 39
seismic design, 44, 95-97, 147-
148, 150
Shaked, Hagai, 87
Shell Development Co., 147
shielding pilots, 30
Shippingport , 44
Sierra Club, 106, 153
skiing, 240
smoke bombs, 25
Smyser, Dick, 5
Smyser, Katy, 5
Smyser, Lucy, 5
Smyser, Mary Pigford, 5-6
socio-technological issues, 188
sodium-cooled reactor, 51, 102-
104
solar energy, 62
solid-fuel reactors, 27, 30
Southern accent, 16-17
Soviet Union, 166
Russian National Academy of
Science, 166
rubles, 167
SP-100 reactor, 158-159
sports, 10
Sputnik, 47
Standard Oil of California, 35
Stanford University, 34, 36
starting a company, 35
State of Nevada, 201
State of Pennsylvania, 135
State of Texas, 191
339
Strauss, Lewis, 33, 35
stringing tennis racquets, 13
Starkville, Mississippi, 6
Stockholm Conference, 205
Suez Canal, 48
Sweden, 165, 186
international committee, 186-
188, 214-215
interim storage, 216
project management, 229
systems engineering, 31, 155, 186
Taylor, Ted, 134, 139
teaching with reactors, 36-37
Texas Instruments, 134
Teller, Edward, 68, 87-90, 231
Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) ,
59
tennis, 2, 10-11, 13, 239
Thigpen, Mr. , 12
Thornburg, Governor, 138
Three Mile Island accident, 63,
132, 164
effect on utilities, 142
emergency cooling, 136
hydrogen bubble, 138-139
operator training, 136-137
Presidential Commission, 132-
144
tomography, 92
transuranic waste, 189
tree house, 11
tritium, 66
Trunk, Anne, 135, 140
Union Carbide and Carbon, 20
Union Oil, 61
U.S. Congress, 191, 193
U.S. Department of Energy, 129,
154, 161, 185, 191-192, 195,
202, 206, 209
U.S. Geological Survey, 147, 151
U.S. Navy, 18
U.S. Nuclear Regulatory
Commission, 101, 112-113, 126,
137, 144, 151, 156-157, 193-
195, 200-202
U.S. Postal Service, 1
U.S. Supreme Court, 102
University of California, 39
University of California at
Berkeley, 6, 69-70
University of Chicago, 102
University of Delaware, 6, 236
University of Illinois, 6, 9
University of Michigan, 34, 63
University of Tennessee, 25
UK gas-cooled reactors, 49
uranium hexafluoride, 23
USS Savannah, 48
Vassar, 239
Vines, Elsworth, 12
von Weber, 8
Vrana, 106, 132, 145-147
Waste Isolation Pilot Plant
(WIPP), 155, 189-191
anhydrite layers, 198
Carlsbad, New Mexico, 196
corrosion gas, 198
oversight committee, 196
rock bolts, 197
safety criteria, 198-200
salt creep, 197
long-lasting markers, 215
Waste Isolation system Study,
184, 196
Weekes, Betty Hood, 239, 240
Weekes, Janvrin, 240
Weekes, Laura, 240
Westinghouse, 39, 42, 56-57, 60,
206, 209
whiskey, 4-5
Wilkinson, Eugene, 143
Wilmington, Delaware, 6
writing textbooks, 35
woodworking, 2, 12
xenon, 66
340
Yucca Mountain project, 154-155
capillary barrier, 215-220
carbon- 14 releases, 198
chemical reducing agent, 215,
218-220
climate change, 213
depleted uranium, 219-220
industry oversight, 229
maximally exposed individual,
200-203
modifications and cost, 215-
216
oxidizing environment, 218-219
population dose, 199
safety criteria, 198-205, 226-
229
seismic design, 211-213
uncertainty in dose
calculations, 204-205
upwelling of ground water, 213
U.S. Congress, 200, 205, 226-
229
vicinity-average dose, 201,
202
zirconium alloy (Zircaloy), 54,
64
Carl Wilmsen
B.A.., 1984, University of Arizona, Asian Studies
(minor in Forestry).
M.A., 1988, University of Hawaii, Geography. Thesis
title: Forest Perception and Management in Kochi
Prefecture. Japan, based on a year and a half of field
work in Japan.
Ph.D., 1997, Clark University, Worcester,
Massachusetts, Geography with emphasis on natural
resources, forest ecology and management, and
geographic information systems. Dissertation title:
Fighting for the Forest: Sustamability and Social Justice
in Vallecitos. New Mexico, based on field work in
Vallecitos.
Instructor, University of New Mexico, 1995-1997.
Consultant in sustainable agriculture and rural
community development to New Mexico State
University, 1992-1999.
Interviewer/Editor, Regional Oral History Office, in the
field of natural resources and the environment, 1997-
2000.
Program Coordinator, U.S. Community Forestry
Research Fellowship Program, College of Natural
Resources. University of California, Berkeley, 2000-
present.
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